Robbk

Willie Jones was a long-time R&B and later, Soul singer in Detroit, both singing lead for groups, and as a solo artist, who sang in falsetto and his regular voice was also very high. He started with The Royals/Royal Jokers, also was the lead singer with The Chimes, and the reconstructed Royal Jokers, and The 21st. To ME, the "Willie Jones" on The Kool Kat record, "My Baby Ain't No Plaything", sounds like a totally different, having a much deeper register voice. So, I could believe the latter was a completely different person, with the real name of Willie Harvey. I read in a few different places that the singer on that Wylie-Hester song was actually "Willie Harvey". On the other hand both singers worked out of Detroit, and that time when the song was recorded (1966) fits well into a period of little recording work in Jones' career. So, I can't decide whether he is or not the R&B/Soul singer. Jones was a much more popular singer in Detroit than his modest level of US national record sales would ordinarily indicate. He was fully booked with local club gigs during all of the '50s and '60s, and, at least into the early-to-mid '70s.

I'm almost certain that each Mercury subsidiary had its own promotional crew. You can add in Blue Rock and Limelight, as well. Mercury's VP of Promotion probably had different assistants for each of the different music genres to interface with each label who carried releases from each given style. So, that Director of Soul Music Promotion of Mercury Records Corp. would interface with the Promotion Boss of each of the subsidiaries' promotion crew leader, (Mercury, Blue Rock, Smash, Philips, Fontana, and Limelight (maybe Fontana and Limelight's leaders were just thrown into the meetings with Smash or Philips, as they had so many less releases in The Soul genre). UA/Liberty/Imperial/Minit also probably had separate promotional crew chiefs for each subsidiary. But they probably had one less level of management over the subsidiary label' promotional crew chief.

WOW! Who'd have even bet the over on 20, let alone 300!!??? If they needed all to be the same take and mix, they could have dashed across the border to Windsor to have 300 vinyl DJ copies made. But they wanted to test the DJs on several different versions, so they had to have them cut one-at-a-time. The 2 Columbia cuts were very pedestrian, and the record charted weakly. So, Motown probably didn't need to rush their marketing of different versions of "The Same Old Song". They could have just decided on the best version in-house, and pressed up the store stocker run and shipped them to their distributors, as well as having lots of their staff taking off a day and driving them to nearby cities in the rest of Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Missouri.

(1)&(2) It wasn't as simple as that. It depended upon the size and organisation style of the record company. I can speak to Motown's, because I had intimate knowledge of their historical stock, and their production process. I'd say that Motown averaged probably closer to 10, as 5 or 6 were made for Quality Control meetings alone; and then there were also the Jobete Music "proof of ownership" acetates, and artist demos. There were usually also producer acetates made of the different takes before the final mix and version was chosen, and the different LP tracks also had acetates made. Sometimes there were acetates made of individual instrumental parts. But Motown was more fastidious about their instrumental production. Then, of course, (4) there were the acetates made for the music publishers, (3) and possibly some made for radio DJs. That would usually occur IF the company hadn't already made vinyl DJ Copy press runs. Usually these would be small companies with little handy cash. So that would likely have been done by Motown only during their first few years. I don't know enough about other record companies' production process during the 60s. Motown, during the '70s made less than they did in the '60s, and by the time we were operating Airwave during the first half of The '80s, the whole industry's operations were different enough, using even less of them. But it always depended upon the size of the company and the complexity of their production and marketing process.

Mercury had several very good Soul Music producers and lots of good artists, but their promotional people didn't have the right connections in The Soul field, so they couldn't really compete for radio airplay, or push from their distributors. Their executives were businessmen first, who happened to work for a national record company, and didn't have experience in The Soul Music industry. They had no knowledge of that industry happenings "on the ground". So they didn't hire the right mid-level executives, who had connections with The Black community. So, they couldn't find the best promoters, with the strongest connections to the people who got things done. Mercury records that were excellently written , produced, and sung, on the whole, (Andre Williams, Al Smith, Gamble & Huff, Robert Bateman) (except for superstars like Jerry Butler) only reached moderate chart level and sales, while Chess', VJ's(until they moved to LA), Motown's, and Atlantic's best releases became regional or national hits. Most of Mercury's average quality Soul releases hardly produced any sales, and were lucky to get airplay, while even the average productions from Soul Music labels, who had the better connections, got modest-to moderate airplay, and charted locally, and some regionally. The only Mercury Soul records that sold well were the very well-known singers and groups that had had long, successful careers before Mercury enticed them away from record companies with good promotion in The Soul field, such as Jerry Butler from VJ. Promotional blurbs in the trade papers and magazines wasn't nearly as important as the right promoters with the best connections to the better national and regional distributors, and connections to the big city and other influential DJs. And Jimmy Jr. being satisfied to play in his father's band, and Jimmy Senior having such a long career, didn't help entice Jimmy Jr. to put his heart and soul into trying to make it as a Soul singer. IF VJ had stayed solvent and well-run (as in 1963 and '64), and Jimmy Sr. had stayed with them, they might have given lots of push to his first record, produced a better quality 2nd records, both of which would have charted, and sold well at list throughout The Midwest, if not nationally. And in that case, Jimmy Jr. could have gotten a lot of gigs locally, and in The Upper Midwest. That probably would have pushed him towards sticking with it much longer, and maybe for a full solo career. Sometimes a small event is a turning point in life.

Barbour's version is clearly the same exact song as Jimmy's. So Callier should be listed as the writer.

So the OP is then saying that there were 2 different printings, with the rare, or odd one HAVING Hickory's Nashville address, or printed word, "Nashville" alone, on the label under the artist names (Frankie and Johnny, at the bottom of the label, and the common one NOT having it there, but having "A DECLON RECORDING" there. Every copy I see now has "A DECLON RECORDING" there. IF the label in question has only the word "Nashville" there, I would guess it's a bootleg. It makes no sense to have that there. IF, on the other hand the label font and label design is completely different from the common one, and has the complete Nashville office address there (in 2 rows), then it is likely to be a legitimate different pressing. Jules, can you post a scan of the label containing the word "Nashville" there? I'm sure we could then tell if it's a boot, or not. All the Hickory boots I've seen had lighter printing in telltale spots, revealing that the original master label was photocopied. By the way, knowing that Declon was the abbreviation designation for the foreign leasing department of UK Decca Records, logic tells me that Declon stands for: The Decca/London Records Distribution Group of labels.

The voice on the unreleased acetates sounds like him, and so does the guitar playing. I wonder if the background singers were The Dells. They worked with Al Smith at VJ for many years, and also with him at Chess (which is where they all were during the time Jimmy's Mercury record was made). Mercury likely used Chess' studio to record the Mercury record. The background singers don't sound as "full-sounding" on this as they do on some of The Dells' VJ/Vivid and Chess releases, but their harmony is good, and they sound like The Dells in a few places. What a shame that Mercury didn't release the second 45 on Jimmy. I guess the fact that it didn't get any marketing push, which was their fault, doomed the record to almost no sales. To be honest, I don't remember hearing it on Chicago radio stations, or seeing it in the new/current section of local record shops. I'd doubt if it sold more than a couple hundred at full price, if that, and can't remember if I found it in a thrift shop or in a record shop bargain bin. It certainly was good enough to get a few test plays by local DJs. Jimmy was good enough to have a good career as a Soul singer. I guess Jimmy was satisfied just playing in his father's band, touring, and when home (was it Detroit or Chicago?) also moonlighting playing bass guitar on a lot of local recording sessions. Personally, knowing that he worked on a fair amount of sessions in Chicago around that time, my guess is that he resided there, rather than Detroit, where he grew up. His style on "I Ain't Goin' Nowhere" is great, and right up my alley (one of the best of the pure mid-' 60s Chicago Sound). It's certainly very memorable.

Jimmy Reed Junior just died 10 months ago. What a sweet voice. Great background group. How come Mercury didn't release at least the traditional contract's second 45 on him? He was so good, I'd have guessed he'd have had a long, successful career. Certainly, he must have recorded some other songs. Great mid-'60s Chicago Sound to a tee! Written by Terry Callier, Produced by Al Smith, arranged by Phil Wright, all VJ and Chess people. I've been trying to find other cuts by him since I found this in a Chicago record shop bargain bin or thrift shop in 1967, and seen nothing more. I know he spent a lot of years as a bass guitarist playing on his father's tour. But he should have had a big singing career of his own. Does anybody here know about any other releases he had, and more about his career story?

So, is the Riley Hampton instrumental version of "Hello Stranger" on Carla 101 (as the scan above shows) on the flip of Deon Jackson's version on Carla 102, or on Carla 101?

I've seen this record once, but never got to hear it. Is this the original of Riley Hampton's instrumental, heavy strings version, that was issued much later for The Northern Scene, on UK's Connoisseur Records?

I agree. He doesn't use a uniform process for from where the recordings and label photos are taken, and doesn't seem to know as much about each record as he would IF he had possession of the original records (e.g. he's also taking information about the various records from various sources (sometimes not having access to a sharp, readable scan of the original record label). If they were all in his collection, he'd either be taking them all from a uniform quality digital copy he'd made earlier, or directly recording them off playing them on a turntable, and then digitising those recordings.

My first bootleg purchases were the 3 Flamingos' issues on Parrot Records from 1953-54, made during the early 1960s(1961-2?), with the only difference from the originals being the word "Bronzeville" (Chicago neighbourhood) being misspelled to "Bronxville" (reflecting that the boots were pressed in New York, rather than Chicago, and so the boot could be distinguished from the original, as otherwise, it was really difficult to recognise the difference from the originals). My second set of boots were 3 1952-53 Flamingos, and 2 Moonglows issues on Chance Records, also pressed by an East Coast R&B collector/record dealer, around the time during the early1960s(1963?), as the Parrot records were booted.

Thanks Dave, I always thought they were one in the same. So ARDCO had a pressing plant, and the small record companies who got their records pressed there, also got ARDCO to distribute them both regionally, and IF they hit big in California, ARDCO would also distribute them nationally. Speaking of ARDCO, I always wondered if they and CIRCA (Consolidated International Record Company of America) were related (they both distributed many of the small small Indie record labels , mostly located in L.A. Metro Area, and S.F. Bay Area, and San Diego (e.g. California), sand both used the same Blue Ribbon Icon. Here's what I found when Googling that question: "CIRCA and ARDCO were related in the context of the music industry, specifically in record distribution. ARDCO (Allied Record Distributing Company) was a distribution company established by Allied Record Manufacturing Company in 1958. It focused on distributing independent labels and offered services that covered the entire manufacturer-distribution relationship. CIRCA (Consolidated International Record Company of America) was founded by Mike Elliot, who was formerly the general manager of ARDCO. When Allied and ARDCO were sold to PRI in 1961, Elliot left to create CIRCA. Successor Relationship: CIRCA adopted a business model very similar to the one previously used by ARDCO, and Billboard magazine reportedly presented ARDCO as CIRCA's predecessor. Essentially, CIRCA grew out of ARDCO, building upon a similar business model for independent record distribution. "

I'm sure I saw a scan Monarch's official pressing totals from their start through the 1970s, and it had a split between vinyl and styrene. I've also read that they had vinyl pressing capability, and that they pressed those on special projects. Chalky must have seen some of the source material I have, or he wouldn't have made the statement above. Unfortunately, I can't remember the source. I don't keep track of such information because I don't write articles for a living. But that data was on a website that had a lot of other US pressing plant data. I seem to remember also reading that Shelley, in Long Island, New York, which pressed mostly on styrene, also had vinyl capability, and pressed some records on vinyl. I guess that there were always some clients that insisted upon getting their recordings pressed on vinyl, and pressing plants wanted to please certain large clients, so despite the cost savings of pressing on styrene, plant owners that wanted to take advantage of that in large volumes, still wanted to have capability for both. Also related to L.A. pressing plants....... AnoraksCorner.com lists Allied Record Co. as having a pressing plant in Los Angeles. I assume that that plant sometimes got confused with AlCo (Allied Steel Co.), also in L.A. And, I wonder if ARDCO (Allied Record Distributing Co.) - (secondary level L.A. record distributor) had a connection to Allied Record Co. Can anyone here answer that?

But, I don't think ALL the vinyl records that were pressed by AlCo (Allied Steel) were stamped with the Alco stamp. I have several small L.A.(Hollywood-based) label records, which I think were pressed at AlCo, that don't have the stamp.

Yes. The statistical breakdown of styrene and vinyl pressing by Monarch didn't include Alco Steel pressing figures. As Chalky stated, they had their own vinyl pressing operation.

Yes, it must be a boot. I saw hundreds of copies of it when it was out. ALL the copies I saw had dark, uniform, solid, black print. This was definitely taken from a photograph. Also, in the beginning rung of the trail, all my copies have" MM 1006 -1 RE - 1 no Monarch triangle. I've seen just " MM " crossed out with double lines, and some with an extra RE -1 along with the MM, with both crossed out. But " MM 1006- RE-1" in the remaining accepted markings.

I've had "Bar-B-Que" from Monarch on both styrene, and vinyl.

I saw the overall historical breakdown figures for Monarch between styrene and vinyl. It was about 90-92 % on styrene and 8-10% on vinyl. I've seen many vinyl records that had been pressed there. They were concentrated in a much narrower range of labels. So, I suspect that they were many pressed on vinyl on special projects. So, it may be that Monarch always had some (albeit a relatively small amount) of vinyl stock in-house. Unfortunately, I can't recall which labels were the main ones for which I found vinyl pressings.

WOW!!! "I Couldn't Nobody Pray" was a Gospel song, and The Womack Brothers decided to take it secular, for their secular singing group (same group members (or different?), The Valentinos. So, they took the same exact tune, and just changed the words to "Lookin' For A Love", and got a several regions hit!

Detroit's Ravins were a Garage group. I imagine that one or two of their songs might have been played on The Northern Soul scene, just as Motown's Underdogs and Headliners may have been, as well. There were a LOT of Garage bands in Detroit during The 1960s, whose recordings have a touch of Detroit Soul sound in them, because they used some of the same background musicians, arrangers, recording engineers, and some even had Pop producers who also produced Soul music productions. I haven't been following what's being played on The Northern Scene since our Airwave Records closed down in 1985, and I started working as a cartoonist. So, I can't help with this thread, other than pointing out what is " '60s Garage Music, and what is not (e.g. "Blue-Eyed Soul" and "Pop", "Punk" and "Hard Rock").

Listen to the guitar solo in the break on this Garage classic! Here's the most famous Garage song - they really butchered Richard Berry's great song:

Now you've got it! This is "Garage". It even has a "Guitar Solo" in the break, albeit a VERY, VERY short one.