Robbk

Tom DePierro died of cancer in the mid 1980s.

I never meant to imply that Simon Soussan took the other Company File copy. I think he bought Tom's copy. I don't think Simon ever had access to records in Motown's Record files. No doubt someone else took the other one, and kept it for himself, or sold it to someone who never showed it to anyone with connections to The NS crowd. As far as Simon never showing the stock issue to a Brit, I think that is possible. You seem to think it's not possible. I don't even know if Soussan ended up with the record. I DO know that I saw him browsing through our record shelves and playing records on our turntable, while we were doing other things. I know that Tom was desperate for operating cash. I do know that ALL the records I saw were missing were all NS played at that time, or "stompers" not yet played. Maybe Tom sold them to a different NS enthusiast (but, IF so, he was likely to be a Brit). Could it have been a Brit who would never show it to ANYONE involved in The NS Scene? Highly unlikely. So, I certainly have no idea where the Motown File copy that we didn't have ended up. And, I really can't know for sure where where "OUR" copy ended up, or, really, even how it left us. All I know is that, those 2 stock pressings DID exist, and now, I seemed to have jumped to an incorrect conclusion about Ron Murphy's copy, and it was a DJ copy. So, that means there were, at least 2 white DJs, and 2 stock pressings, that got out of the hands of high Motown personnel and departments. I still don't believe that record got to the distributors, otherwise more would exist. I still think only the 6 press run masters were pressed on the stock issue.

So Ron's copy was a DJ copy??? I never saw it, myself. I always just assumed it was a stock copy because he said it came in a box of press run test masters he found at the original Detroit pressing plant. I suppose it could have been a test pressing for pressing of the DJ press run. If so, then there were only the two stock copies that I saw in the two Motown Record files, one of which we had in our office at Motown, and later. Tom had taken to Airwave. When I saw it had gone missing, Tom told me that "Soussan must have taken it, when he was browsing through our record shelves." But, I think Tom sold it to Soussan when he was desperate for cash. Other NS Motown records and other non-Motown NS records were missing, as well. Modern Soul Sucks, didn't I take you for a tour of our Airwave offices? If that was before 1982, you could have seen the Frank wilson there. But, I guess if you had seen it there, you'd have already mentioned that on this thread. So, Soussan never sold it, eh? Kept it for himself. I wonder who "lifted" the OTHER one. I guess it also never got to the market. Again, I say, Ron told me that the pressing plant people told him that 6 test copies were run before a press run. So, at least 6 Frank Wilson stock copies were pressed, even if Berry Gordy cancelled the store stock press run before it started. In addition to the two file copies I mentioned, Berry Gordy got one, Quality Control got one, and 2 were kept by the pressing plant. But that was a DIFFERENT press run from that of the white DJs. So, apparently, the 2 store stock press run test masters which were originally kept by the pressing plant, were eventually destroyed, as most are after a number of years. Ron said that the box he got was going to be destroyed.

What are you talking about? Two of those three non-demo stock records were standing before my eyes for 8 straight years. And the 3rd I have on pretty good authority, as I've never known my friend, Ron Murphy (may he rest in peace) to lie about anything. And, in addition, I heard from 2 other people that they had seen Ron's copy, before he sold it. Those people are also well known to be honest people. I've never known them to lie or stretch the truth. These were all "stock copies", with the mauve Soul logo. Simon Soussan got the one that was sitting in our offices. So, I expect that it ended up in the hands of a big-time British NS collector, unless he just kept it for himself.

No. I meant that many more white DJ records exist than store stock records of that old Town release.

I would say so. I've seen two in The Motown and Jobete Record Files, one of which was in our office for 5 years at Motown, and then at Airwave for 3 years. Then, I know of one other Frank Wilson stocker that existed, which my friend Ron Murphy found among the original Detroit pressing plant saved test pressings. That one eventually ended up in The UK. So, that's at least 3 times as many as Nicks one-off.

Apparently, The Five lyrics were a different group from The Lyrics. So, I guess Ike Perry and his Lyrics traveled to The San Francisco Bay Area to record in the mid '50s.

Ike Perry's group was from Texas. They were on the Rhythm Records label in 1955 (rather than Music City). I have the record. Then, they had a release on Bridge Records in 195, Cowtown in 1960. These were all Texas labels. They must have been from Texas, and moved to Cleveland in 1961 or 1962. Their Courier Record may have been recorded in late 1962, and released in early 1963. That was also released on Mama Records, named after Ike's mother. That had more records released on that label.

It did make it to the store stock stage. But The white DJs are MUCH more plentiful.

Good! I'd hate to see someone get that kind of money for a boot, and even someone too lazy to look into it, pay that much for one.

But someone paid $5,100 for a boot. Right? The P in "produced is directly under the V. Or, do I have it backward, and this IS the original?

I see now that I remembered incorrectly. He's listed as only having releases on Diamond, Jet Star and an unnamed Canadian label, and a couple tiny labels. I guess I remembered a King record in the 5800s with the word "Poppa" in the title. The photographic memory sometimes plays tricks. It's bad enough that my short-term memory is virtually completely gone. But now, despite my eating a lot of wild salmon and drinking fish oil, my long-term memory is starting to go. Maybe I was hit on the head too many times with 100 mph flying pucks and opposing players' sticks. It comes back to haunt one 40-50 years later.

I have one or 2 of his King 45s.

Thanks for bringing that up. There were a lot of other R&B Lyrics groups. Were there any other releases by Ike Perry's group between their Music City records and late 1958?

As a Detroit "completist", I wouldn't mind having that lookalike boot to put with my other Velgos. I know I'll never get the real one, with only a couple known, and my not being able to afford to spend over £30 on any record. £200, is ridiculous. Maybe I'd buy it for £10.

Thanks. They are quite nice. Ike was still in good form in the 70s. Wow! One has a Jimmy Rickslike bass lead! Interesting! The style and instrumentation is a bit new-sounding for me, but they sound very nice and very "listenable". Very little in the '70s is "my cup of tea".

Davie Gordon said he has those 2 cuts, plus 2 others by this group that are unreleased, and that they were recorded in the 1970s. I have their Courier Record and one more. They go as far back as 1958. I'd like to hear these 2 cuts. Davie hardly ever posts on Soulful Detroit anymore, and I haven't seen him post on Soul-Source.

I'll bet that's really good. I have a couple Ike Perry and The Lyrics 45s on small Cleveland labels. and they are good. I didn't see any link on that e-Bay page to hear even snippets of the songs. Surely the auction provides a listening sample for knowing how good the songs and performance are, and knowing the condition related to the sound. Can you direct me to where I can listen to it?

Also, the original has a slightly yellower tint in the green. The green in the boot is darker and less yellow (e.g. slightly bluer green).

In what year was it recorded?

Tof! I bet it is funny to hear Vlaams with a San Antonio accent! Tot ziens, Y'all!

The print and logo look very good. But I don't remember now exactly how the boot looked. I'll be curious to know if it is original or not. Interesting that Wilbur Jackson of "The Two Friends" on Harvey Fuqua's and Gwen Gordy's HPC Records wrote the song. Was he also a member of THIS group? @ plus 2 sounds like a group of 4. But on the song they don't sound like that many different people. Does anyone know all the member names of Two Plus Two?

Geen probleem. Ik weet een beetje over de belgische gevoel voor humor (althans de vlaamse), als familie van mijn vader komt uit Antwerpen, en ik bezoek familie daar, en ook in Brussel en Luik elk jaar. Ben je een vlaamse of franse belgier?

Norma Jenkins' Dolls were from the New York/New ersey Metro Area, while The Dolls on Loma were from Waco Texas. The recording was produced and recorded in Texas by Dale Hawkins, and their record appeared first on a local, Texas label, Toy Records (No connection with Toy Records in NY).

Don't get me wrong. I like The Sparkels' version a LOT. I bought it new, as soon as I saw "Jobete Music" on it. And I was not disappointed at all. And I'd have bought it anyway, as I collect girls; group records even those with a Poppish sound. Just so you will know that I'm not trying to say that one version is good and one bad I'll make a comparison: If "I Never Dreamed" by The Cookies is rated 100 as a Girls' group song, then "try Love" by The Sparkels would be 85. The Norma Jenkins version is in a different genre. It is more Popcorn Soul. If I'd rate the two to my own scale of like/dislike from 0-dislike strongly -to 100 like as much as is possible, I'd rate the Norma Jenkins at 88, and the Sparkels at 85. So, they are not very far apart. I ust like Norma Jenkins' version slightly better.