Robbk

In late 1964, or the beginning of 1965, Detroit's Joe Hunter made a deal with Don Robey, to produce recordings on several of Robey's Houston-based artists, with Duke, Peacock, BackBeat and Sure-Shot Record labels. Some of them were totally, or partially recorded in Houston, at Robey's usual facilities, and others in Detroit, recorded at United Sound. Although not positive about which were recorded where (other than a handful in Detroit, I'd guess that about two thirds (or, at least 60%) of them were recorded in Detroit. But, we know that he also recorded a fair amount in Houston, because he mentioned that he liked the relaxed atmosphere in the Houston facilities as compared to Motown. The artists included Bobby Bland, Buddy Lamp, Bobby Williams, and several others. Some of Robey's artists resided in Detroit, and didn't record for Robey's labels before his deal with Hunter, so I believe their signing to Robey's labels came as a result of their production deal.

Most (almost all) of the nationally distributed labels headquartered outside Detroit, who released records by Detroit artists, did so by leasing Detroit productions recorded in Detroit by Detroit producers. So, several of the responses to the OP don't really meet the spirit of his original request. He stated: "As a "Born Again Detroit" collector (specifically) for the last 20 years anyway, and having read some superb articles by some very well versed Soul Source contributors in relation to the Motor City over the years, I have been intrigued by the information gleaned regarding to "out of town artist(e)s utilising the superb recording facilities in Detroit!" He did NOT ask for Detroit producers' Detroit productions and recordings of Detroit artists, leasing those recordings to out-of-state record companies. there are too many of the latter to list here, and not interesting, as they were all done for the same reason, to get their songs heard by the national audience, rather than the tiny local, or small regional audiences. He wanted to find out which out-of-state record companies brought their artists to Detroit to record, and take advantage of Detroit's stable of excellent musicians, arrangers, recording engineers, recording studios, and sometimes, rent the use their producers, as well.

There are. Robert Bateman and Andre Williams recorded Mary Wells in Detroit for 20th Century Fox Bateman and Wylie recorded New York's Luther Ingram in Detroit for their HIB Records Wand recorded New York's some of Chuck Jackson last Wand recordings (1965-66?) in Detroit Don Davis (in very late 1961) recorded Ohio's O'Jays in Detroit and leased their cuts to New York's Apollo Records Years later (1965-66), Imperial had The Ojays record in Detroit produced by Don Davis' Solid Hitbound Productions

That is correct! Hambric was a New York singer who had recorded for Bobby and Danny Robinsons' labels. His Drum record, produced and written by Detroiter, Don Juan Mancha, was produced while Don was on a long visit to New York to meet his old Motown colleague, Robert Bateman, and to work with his deal finding middleman agent, The Drifters' Johnny Terry, to try to procure financing for Detroit productions he'd already recorded in Detroit, and to garner future production and distribution deals from record companies with national distribution. I've read an interview with Mancha in which he told the story of how he and Terry got the Trav-Ler Production deal with Scepter Wand, and how the Billy Hambric project happened. He wrote the songs for Hambric while in New York, but they couldn't get a deal for recording with a big, national label, so had to settle for getting a small-time financier for a one-off, small locally distributed New York label. I think they recorded it at Bell Sound. I don't think they got New York's best recording Soul band led by Richard "T", and with Pretty Purdie on drums, and many of New York's best Soul/R&B/Jazz musicians. So, the songwriting sounds somewhat like a Mancha Detroit song, but the instrumental doesn't sound all that much like it was recorded in a Detroit studio, played by Detroit musicians. Lots of Robert Bateman's New York productions, with instrumentals played by Richard T's band, sound like Motown (they were Jobete NY's in-house band), or they sound like Golden World/Ric-Tic, or they sound like Don Davis' Thelma or Groovesville, or like his Solid Hitbound recordings. They were "The Funk Brothers", or "Wrecking Crew" of New York, and The East Coast, and Carl Davis' band in Chicago.

That's the address of where his house was when I visited him from 1969-78 or so.

Reed was a major songwriter and sometimes arranger for Carl Davis, especially for The Artistics, Chi-Lites, Billy Butler, and Barbara Acklin at Brunswick, and Davis' Dakar an Bashie labels. I think he may have sung on several Artistic cuts, too. He was also in the Pieces of Peace group.

Exactly! Renee was Leo Austell's label, and Lamaja was his publishing company. Louis Satterfield was Chicago's best bassist during the 1960s. He was The James Jamerson of Chicago. From the sharing of the two publishing rights, I gather that Marc was a joint-venture label between the two, OR, Austell was strapped for money, but wanted to re-release Eddie Sullivan's record, so he leased it to Satterfield. I think the Marc pressing was one or 2 years later than the Renee issue, because I only saw it a couple years later. Austell was involved in many labels where he was part of a partnership.

I'd bet that Renee was first. During my 20 years of record scrounging after its release, I have seen many more of the Renee issue. So, I suspect that the Marc version is rarer. And, remember that I was based out of Chicago when it was released, and saw many more at that time. In fact, I had NEVER seen the Marc issue, until years later, when another collector found one. So, I have reason to believe the Renee version was released first.

ALL the promos of this issue that I've ever seen were styrene. Their print was ALL black, as opposed to both black and red on store stock issues.

I'm sure I have at least one or two John Bennings secular releases on Savoy, as well as on Savoy Gospel series. I have one from 1958, on the maroon 1500 series, titled "Who Cares". I think it is Savoy 1542. I also seem to remember having a couple in the blue-coloured Savoy Gospel Series.

I'd guess they are no relation, as Hillyard is a fairly common name in Canada, as it is in Britain. But I wouldn't rule it out, altogether, as a lot of much stranger coincidences have happened.

That's John alright! Yes. He started having dreadlocks in the late 1970s. And now, I remember that he told me he was from Montreal. But, he had a weird accent. Not a typical Quebecois or Eastern English Canadian accent. If I remember correctly, his parents were originally from England. I guess he moved to Merced for easier access to lower cost marijuana, and a lot lower commercial rental costs to run a store. A commercial property of the same size in Hollywood would probably have cost 20+ times what it would have cost in Merced. He looks like a Middle Easterner! He must have been out a lot in that San Joaquin Valley sun! His skin was a pasty white (like an albino, when he first moved to California from Montreal.

Yes! That's Old John, alright. About 1969 or '70, or so, when I first met him, he told me he was working with Kim Fowley.

Ha! Ha! He was ALWAYS living in his record storage bin. His house was filled to bursting with records. Yes, he did also have a storage building, too for older, more common stock. But, in his home, he always had his "hot" recent and new finds, that he advertised. I wonder why he was in Merced? His records would melt and warp in the summer and autumn heat. He'd have to pay a fortune to air condition his "shed". May Old John rest in peace.

John L. Music was Sport/Sir Rah Records' in-house publisher. Maybe a bootlegger got ahold of some Steve Mancha tapes and some other tapes, and just used the name John L. Brown as a cover, and connecting it to John L. Music looked like a better way to try to tie it to a real entity to better its chances of looking legitimate. I can't imagine Clyde Wilson trying to steal ownership from his friend, Don Davis.

I'm sorry to tell you that Im can't answer any of those questions. I didn't know he had a store. I used to go to his house in Hollywood, to look through his stock of records for sale (just as I did with John Anderson). I don't remember him having a physical commercial "store". And I thought the name of his mail order service was simply his name ("John Hillyard"). I knew him throughout the 1970s, and I believe he came to Los Angeles near the end of the 1960s or near the start of the 1970s. I think he was from The Toronto Area, as he definitely didn't have a Western Canadian accent. I haven't kept up with The record Collectors' scene in L.A. since about 1978, so I didn't know John had died. You mentioned that you know of the circumstances, which makes it seem like he didn't pass on peacefully in his bed at home from natural causes, unless he had some disease like cancer, which brought him an untimely early demise. How did he die?

Joe Hunter had a production agreement With Don Robey's Duke, Peacock, Back Beat, and Sure Shot Records. Hunter ran sessions for Robey both in Detroit and in Houston. Many were with Detroit-based artists, which Robey signed for this deal, and others were his previous signees and long-time artists, who were Texas-based.

Yes, certainly.

Sorry, I am getting more senile than ever. I confused 1940s and '50s Washington D.C. and Toronto, Jazz, Swing, and early R&B band leader and record producer, FRANK Motley, with Detroit's Sam Motley, fusing them into one person, assuming that Frank moved from Toronto to Detroit during the '60s, and started producing Soul records. I wonder if they were related? Motley isn't a very common name. I can't find an emoji for embarrassment. Do we have one?

But, Ida Bennett, who led on the Bon/Reel Ambassadors' cuts may have been J.P. Bennett (JMM's business partner)' daughter. Nice to learn that The Sensation-Ivies were connected to The Ambassadors.

Wow! I've never seen that Ambassadors' record before! It looks like it might sound very good. I'd guess they were the same Ambassadors from Detroit that recorded "Power of Love"/"I Wonder Why" for Johnnie Mae Matthews' Reel Records. Those songs were written by a "G. Yensey (misspell of Yancey), with the usual J.P. Bennett and JMM added). I can't find it on You-Tube. Do you have a digital file of it? If so, can you post it - or, at least a snippet of it? I seem to remember having a couple of labels with the different Yancey names scattered on all their records. Not just JR and Panik, but, I can't remember which others there were. I've seen a C. Yancey, for Clemmer, a D. Clancey, and a G. Clancey. Maybe they owned JR, and possibly, Panik Records?

Sam was much more of a big name, nationally popular band leader than a record producer, despite his prolific production over his many years. He and his band toured The US Chittlin' Circuit (and a little in Canada) for many years, during the late 1940s through much of the 1950s, as one of the most popular R&B dance bands. He was originally from Washington, D.C., and produced records there, but also quite a bit in Detroit, and also some other East Coast cities. And his band was not only the "house band" on his own labels, but also for some labels owned by other people.

I like it. But any Ramsey Lewis fan can tell that's NOT him playing the piano.

Good point! It's obvious that a NS (or at least General Soul) record dealer copied Jobete Music N.Y.'s official demo record label, strictly to use in confusing collectors into thinking post 2000 acetates are 1960s Motown in-house originals, for the express purpose of being able to sell them at high collectors' prices (with the fallback that when they are accused of fraud, they can always claim they found these "records" as is, and simply didn't know whether, or not, they were 1960s originals.

It seems someone either got ahold of a blank Jobete Music Co. New York label, or photocopied one, and placed it on a new acetate made of Brenda Holloway on one side and Jimmy Ruffin on the other. It most likely is a recent concoction, not an original from the 1960s, as Detroit operatives didn't use Jobete N.Y. labels, and didn't make 2-sided acetates, and didn't place 2 different artists on 7 inch acetates (although they DID sometimes have different artists on the larger ones). I can't see a situation in which The New York Jobete Office would have made an acetate pairing two unreleased songs by two different artists who recorded those songs in Detroit.