Barry

If the lads have the staying power required on this scene (I think they have), they may live to regret their comments - hopefully though ay Chrissie? I'm sure in their latter years they would rather be the baggie arsed, patched up Soulie that scares them so much than some 'Umbrella'/R&B loving reprobate.

I watched with interest the piece on the young lads that danced on the Duffy vid on ITV last week - and I kinda could see were they were coming from, they were trying to put a positive spin on Northern, stating that it isn't all about 'old men, patches and baggy trousers' - fair do's, fair comment, it isn't - but their views are obviously borne of being surrounded at their chosen venues by the aforementioned 'owd, patched up baggies'. If you are reading this lads, there are still non patched up, owd looking baggies out there - perhaps you should broaden your horizons a little. That aside, it was refreshing to see young fella's feeling Northern appropriately. Next time though, I think you should note that you were dressed in more stereo-typical Northern Soul garb than anyone I've seen for years, so maybe take it easy on your predecessors next time ay? You looked sharp though, I'll give you. Well in.

But Ade, as a piece of music, I still like it. To move on musically, you really need to listen to things for what they are.

Hi Rick, 'those of us that were in it for the long run'! Mate - that is such a poorly thought out diss - you don't know me do you? ...and I'll not even mention the laughable 'apart from the ten years in the army' line. Anyway, I'll take it that you base your 'I'm more of a Soulie than you' comment on the plain fact that I don't attend nighters as regularly as I once did, as it happens I f*cking gave my poorly paid life over to it for years Rick. For your information, I didn't stop being heavily involved with the furtherance, purchasing, promotion and playing of independant black music to my kind (not even for a stint in the Army???), the day I stopped attending nighters. As you don't know anything about me, may I pose these three questions for you, they may help you along with your general, clueless view of me... Did I stop buying Northern around 1990? Did my love for the music that shaped my youth diminish an iota the day I started playing other forms of black music to people who also loved other forms of independant black music? Do you think that people whom you would see as people worthy of note on the Northern scene, people whom promote events, people whom are mainstays of this scene, people whom also post on this board - do you think they would greet me, in a social setting, with anything less than respect? I think you'll find the answer to the above questions would be a simple - No! The reason I post about Wigan and the nighters I attended in my time are simply because I attended them, am I not allowed to post my memories? Point out to me a reference that I have made in my nighter memoirs where I have stated a negative. I simply post about Wigan and every nighter that I attended heavily because I can and my memories are as relevant to this board as anyone elses. I don't know you Rick but if GOD gave us the option to play Soul Top Trumps, I'd happily play you anyday. I am unable to let sh*tty poorly thought out responses lie, and this must be the fourth time I've had to vilify myself to people like you that are unable to read my posts for what they are. I don't need you telling me that you are in it for the long run, or that you spent 10 years in the Army, if you want your fifteen minutes of message board fame Rick, I suggest that pick on someone less able old chum.

I remember doing Worcester '81 as the baby (for baby, read twat) of Warringtons Phase II, on me small wheel base 150 Super, and trying me best to get our lot to drive back for Wigan on the Saturday as I didn't want to spend another night sleeping in the ladies toilets in me dodgy sleeping bag (dodgy zip). I didn't manage to talk 'em round...shit at the time, good memory now. Is that last post at all relevant?

Again, we brought Lew over to play at The Carlton in Warrington, he also did Harry Dennets venue in Widnes within the same week (Kev Edwards, Ray Rose, Sam & myself on the roster) - a lovely and humble fellow who was truly in awe of the UK scene and his involvement in it. A shame Lew only seems to get the nod on this site for HITA, when his other major label stuff got heavy rotation on the 80's scene at the time.

The whole Uptown album is a killer - great sleeve too.

I know you shouldn't start a thread but what would the Dells track be that I use to play on the Modern scene? From their '83 album (possibly)?? Morecambe Pier time.

Embarrassed as I am to say it, on the occassions that China and the other Wigan Town Lads used to rob our money off us, the only other option left was to go around the back of the Casino and enther through the Fire Doors - my memory is a little hazy here - but you could creep into the Gents bogs and hide therein until they let everyone in, whereby you where free and clear. Generally it was okay, but on occassion you would be in a trap with one of the doormen pissing like police horse in the nest trap - quite scary when you were a kid.

No Malc it was deffo £2 in - we only managed to record one side of a Memorex C-90 before we left for home. Which begs the question - is NS like any drug addiction? Whereby the actual things that lead up to you scoring are as important as the actual high itself? Mmmmmm!

Frankie Crocker, the biggest dance jock on the radio in NYC at the time, even Frankie Knuckles name checks him on his album - "What a bullet - Chartbuster!"

Any chance of the reasons behind you not liking 'em chaps?

Do you not think that your personal and singular understanding of the term 'Northern Soul' comes, obviously, from the time that you entered into it? That time being when you were open to the particular records that were given the credence to be played on the scene at that (your) time by the people deemed worthy by the masses (you) to do so? Surely!? On the understanding of the above equation, that is - (E=MC2) E [DJ's] = M [Dancefloor Reaction] C [Dancers] 2 [bombers please mate] ....is it not too far a stretch of the imagination to say that us punters can argue 'til we're blue in the brogue about what is/was/is yet to be Modern Soul on any given period on the NS scene? This is such a huge subject to broach (but a very simple one at heart), I don't think that even I can be arsed to tap it out on here.... ...but I do think it is a subject that generally brings up an amount of ill-thought out petty musical views that have little or no standing in truth. If you think Northern was ever all about 60's, then you obviously entered into the scene and danced to stuff singularly released in the 60's, true? I don't know for sure but I'm willing to bet that from 1970 onwards there was stuff played at nighter level, no matter how small an amount, as new releases - maybe as leftfield punts - at nighters. It is obvious what the person who started this thread is asking - but I haven't seen a decent response yet. 'Modern' brought a whole new vitality to the NS scene, youngblood - and for that fact alone I can't ever see the reasoning behind people at all nighter level knocking it. It isn't a case of 'My (Northern) Dad is bigger than your (Modern) Dad', or vice versa - it is the most silly of arguments with no real end - as it is all subjective. dependant on what you heard and when you heard it. Anyway back to the question, Modern to me (my view, within my time frame) began at Rotherham - Top Cat (sic), ZZ & Co, Carol Anderson et al, which were first played to me on the floorboards at Wigan were still, in my mind, 'Newies' [Northern Soul played to me by well respected, hard working collectors who had earnt the right to spread their knowledge and views via a pair of decks at Nighters] - end of - it was fucking Northern. I started to hear stuff at Rotherham, Otis Clay, Oscar Perry, Alfie Davidson etc (there were certain cross-over sounds such as Curtis and King Tutt yeah), then there was the Stafford stuff and Sam & Arthur at Bradford that expanded the 'Modern' sound so much....and I can feel myself getting drawn into spending another hour on here, which right now I can ill afford (get to bed son)...sooo: TCALSS: In my mind the term 'Modern' became an everyday term associated with The (my) Northern scene around about 81/82 and hitting its full flourish (as regards to it's eventual meaning on this scene) in about 85/86. ....once again, this is only My view. (Christ! I wish I could type faster and had nowt else to do today cos I could have rattled on about this one for hours!)

Good shout Eddie, I missed that in the broughagh meself.

A bit of a Devils Adocate question, yes. Scene's always seem to burn bright initially, wether they be scene's based around Rock 'n' Roll or whatever. They are generally run by a group of 'right time, right place' people with enough diligence/insanity regards the music as to cut a new hole in the music scene. They are on top of the music, they hold sway on the dancefloor, they (due to their understanding of the scene - after all, it is they who basically run it) choose the soundtrack for the devotee's/dancers/bedroom collectors life. Then comes the point of maturity for us followers. That moment when people question the information they haved lived their night-life by. "What about the B Side?" of such a thing - "Why did that get played?", "I've found this by them and it's much better than that, that 'suchabody' is playing!" etc etc Basically I think I'm asking - are scene's better when run by the 'lunatic fringe' that give their all to furthering said scene? Before us sheep stick our well-thought out second rate views in, after the fact? This is a tongue in cheek thread lads btw, don't take me too seriously now will you?

Cheers - the only track I have by that group name is a post-funk thing 'Keep Pushing, Jessie Jackson' on the afore mentioned Kent label. Sorry if I am looking stupid and it is a well-known thing. (I had no need to say that did I?)

I know Cunnie, I was hoping that I may get a half dozen different answers, rather than your single obvious one. They are all valid terms as it happens, on their outset as 'termed' scenes - it was the 'at what point do they stop?' answer that I was looking for. My 'House' record label was named 'Fun City' btw - I robbed the whole label type set as it happens - as I too LOVE 'YGMHU' and that was my little nod to the set up and the time I spent dancing to that awesome production. Does anyone remember the interview with King Tutt (was it in Blackbeat?), apparently he was Jimmy Bo Hornes Drummer and has no recollection of making the B Side to 'D-A-N-C-I-N' - 'YGMHU'...he liked a smoke apparently.

Bob on! Me neither mate! A true high point in your Northern Soul passage comes when you obtain 1) A quality record...and 2) One that is backed up with the 'beautiful resignation' that comes with believing that you will never own one.....and then you do - still a £1500 record for me. That track is a perfect example of the level that Searling' sets were during that period - in my eyes unsurpassable. Such a busy and soulfully complex mixture of a track, that touched all the NS bases of the time. A high point of Richard's playlist for me, that also summed the buzz of the Wigan dancefloor up as well as anything that got played there, at that wonderful time anyhow.

Another fantastic Spinners album only (I think?? Maybe a B Side too??) track worthy of a mention here - 'Love Is Such A Crazy Feeling'!

Cheque going in the morning chaps - apologies.

I don't know the track, is this the same 'Pace Setters' that released on Kent?

It was a strange monetary denomination only available at all nighters Malc - I used to save my 1/3 'p's up and over a period of three months was able to get free transport from Wigan Bus Station to Winwick Roundabout (after 12.30pm) on a Sunday. This offer was only valid if you were able to produce an empty Wigan pie tin, a lock of Hilda Woods hair, and a black eye obtained from a bunch of Pemberton lads who thought you were knocking Stricnene Blueys out from behind the first radiator on the left through the double doors at the top of the stairs. Oh, the memories!

I'm on that too, looking veeery 80's - do we have a number for the lad?

I don't know if this is relevant to your initial Q but it is definatley info on LH. I went watching Slave at the Zanzibar Club (Glasgow) in about '83 and Larry was helping the outfit out on bass, I nearly fell over.

Hi Dazz, good shout on a very soulful production but may I ask why you would prefer it on a 7"? 7"s have been, for a good while, simply edits of the original 12" cut, which although may be done sympathetically, generally don't do the original production justice....there's also the fact that there'll definately be some loss in sound quality on a 7" release as opposed to the 12". I swear I'm not being an arse mate, but I definately think it would be better for you all round if you simply purchased a 12" original off ov Ebay.