Hopefully,this should warm things up a little on a cold,cold night....

Just an observation. As the traditional undiscovered Northern style Sixties sounds are becoming harder and harder to find,[mostly, they seem to be originally unissued items these days],the options for finding Soulfull and Danceable newies would seem to come from two main,[though ,wildly different]directions.

So, i`m interested to know that apart from the smattering of new traditional Sixties Northern style sounds which are being played, whether you lot think the best Newies for the Northern scene come from the early Sixties/R&B camp or the Crossover/70`s/80`s Soul sounds.........

Im just interested to know your opinions. Over to you brothers & sisters .......

Edited January 6, 201015 yr by Ivor Jones

Looks like a "school disco" in a sports hall with the geography teacher with the dodgy beard overseeing things !

Wirrena, i think?? Most venues had that feel Think that may be Cliffe in background (not with beard!)

Id call FRANKIE CROCKER a massive oldie that hasn't got a 4/4 beat. Im i mistaken in thinking trhats a 70s tune?

another of me not being at a venue!

Well 'Sylvester-You Make Me Feel Mighty Real?' Ritz All Dayers...77ish...Dunno who played it though!

One record, which could never, ever be described as NS, played at The Ritz/Mecca over 32 years ago hardly constitutes an "invasion" of gay disco music.

Not having a go at you Webby but it angers me when people (not you) make sweeping statements about the music that is or isn't played on the NS scene & then they never back them up with any hard facts.

Looks like a "school disco" in a sports hall with the geography teacher with the dodgy beard overseeing things !

Yeah, well a lot of places like Yate, Hinkley, St Ives and so on looked like that mate. I always remember standing in Yate and as the sun came in thru the windows thinking how it reminded me of my old school dinner hall!

Edited January 8, 201015 yr by chorleysoul

It'll wash cleaner than your analogy that 70's soul is more akin to the classic 60's soul though. I just can't see it, sorry, and the litmus test is that IF it did relate to 60's soul, then I would immediately open my ears to it and like it wouldn't I, which is what automatically happens when I hear a 60's sounding record. When I hear a 70's sounding record, I just shut down because the elements that make great 60's soul music have been replaced by something else.

One of your examples, the O'Jays "Love Train" has absolutely nothing in common with 60's styles whatsoever, nothing - apart from the vocalists.

n.b. this is in fact akin to you telling me that because I like 60's rocksteady that I should enjoy 70's roots reggae, but I detest 70's roots reggae because - and here we go again - it sounds nothing like the 60's music!

This post malfunctioned halfway thru, I have responded again, in full to this point, Pete.

Edited January 8, 201015 yr by chorleysoul

Ask Gill Cousins or Cliffe Steele if i pretended to go to venues Petey 4/4 what a load of toss!Just cos thats the only beat you can count in mate, dont presume its the only one that exists.

Not picking on anyone, just your outrageously uninformed and biggotted statements. Jonathon Capree (you probably aint heard it cos of your dinosaur approach to music) is one of those new discoveries of mine that people dance to at the moment. Jesus, the further you get out of touch , the more you grasp at the past because you rely on selling a load of banged out oldies! Update Pete, open those cloth ears and do a bit of research. At least the proper record dealers have a modicum of knowledge and keep up with things. Your a closed book that everyone has already read. zzzzzz

I sell what people want to buy Paul, that's why I sold almost everything on my list today, if I sold obscure newies only I wouldn't have been able to do what I'm doing for so long, so I think I've probably got it right.

Your capree record is f*cking awful, I said that when you posted it 2 years ago.

People danced to Bryan Hyland, it didn't mean it was any good.

And you can try and insult me all you like, your opinion means absolutely nothing so why waste your time doing it?

Me pretending to be at a venue....

No, a venue, not a playgroup meeting.

Wouldn´t consider "classic Motown Hits" my pair of shoes either- that´s pop!

another of me not being at a venue!

That's not a young Dave Welding in the picture is it?

Jordi

It'll wash cleaner than your analogy that 70's soul is more akin to the classic 60's soul though. I just can't see it, sorry, and the litmus test is that IF it did relate to 60's soul, then I would immediately open my ears to it and like it wouldn't I, which is what automatically happens when I hear a 60's sounding record. When I hear a 70's sounding record, I just shut down because the elements that make great 60's soul music have been replaced by something else.

One of your examples, the O'Jays "Love Train" has absolutely nothing in common with 60's styles whatsoever, nothing - apart from the vocalists.

n.b. this is in fact akin to you telling me that because I like 60's rocksteady that I should enjoy 70's roots reggae, but I detest 70's roots reggae because - and here we go again - it sounds nothing like the 60's music!

You are wrong again Pete. If you want to talk technically, musically 'Love train' is very akin to a great deal of Uptown Soul 60s Dancers. It is a melody led piece with a verse/chorus/middle eight classic pop/soul structure and the 'elements' that admittedly allow you to recognise it as a 70s track are production aspects. Any Musician or Producer will confirm that to to you. In fact, if you play 'Love Train' naked on a piano, the chord structure and phrasing adapt perfectly to implemenation of a classic Motown/Northern 4/4 beat as is the case with many of the type of records I am talking about.

As for Reggae, I am not telling you to like anything but I think I know what the hub of this problem is. I have to admit that I believe that the vast majority of people who came into Northern in the 70s did so by recognition of a familiarity/affection with the original 60s Motown sound etc. (That certainly includes me). Therefore, although we all know new releases were played in the early to mid 70s, i do think it is fair to say, the truest collective conception of what is meant by 'Northern Soul' does revolve around that mid 60s 4/4 Detroit, Chicago, New York type of production. Trouble is, we all also know, it's getting harder to find any reasonable records of that genre, let alone ones which will truly stand up to 'classic' status. So we reach the problem...Where now? I am sorry but I simply do not believe that a reverse trek into the 50s is the answer. Of course such musical journeys are creditable in themselves but it is veering miles away from what a hell of a lot of people view as 'Northern Soul'. We'll have to agree to differ but to me the Philly records and their subsequent multitude of offshoots sound much more related to the classic 60s anthems I grew up on.

Which is why things like 'Lend a hand', 'Cashing in' and 'Love factory' were so massive. Because although they were embracing new production methods and techniques, the basic song structures and arrangements reflect those of the original big Motown anthems. That is a technical musical fact, mate.

Edited January 8, 201015 yr by chorleysoul

You are wrong again Pete. If you want to talk technically, musically 'Love train' is very akin to a great deal of Uptown Soul 60s Dancers. It is a melody led piece with a verse/chorus/middle eight classic pop/soul structure and the 'elements' that admittedly allow you to recognise it as a 70s track are production aspects. Any Musician or Producer will confirm that to to you. In fact, if you play 'Love Train' naked on a piano, the chord structure and phrasing adapt perfectly to implemenation of a classic Motown/Northern 4/4 beat as is the case with many of the type of records I am talking about.

As for Reggae, I am not telling you to like anything but I think I know what the hub of this problem is. I have to admit that I believe that the vast majority of people who came into Northern in the 70s did so by recognition of a familiarity/affection with the original 60s Motown sound etc. (That certainly includes me). Therefore, although we all know new releases were played in the early to mid 70s, i do think it is fair to say, the truest collective conception of what is meant by 'Northern Soul' does revolve around that mid 60s 4/4 Detroit, Chicago, New York type of production. Trouble is, we all also know, it's getting harder to find any reasonable records of that genre, let alone ones which will truly stand up to 'classic' status. So we reach the problem...Where now? I am sorry but I simply do not believe that a reverse trek into the 50s is the answer. Of course such musical journeys are creditable in themselves but it is veering miles awy from what a hell of a lot of people view as 'Northern Soul'. We'll have to agree to differ but to me the Philly records and their subsequent multitude of offshoots sound much more related to the classic 60s anthems I grew up on.

Which is why things like 'Lend a hand', 'Cashing in' and 'Love factory' were so massive. Because although they were embracing new production methods and techniques, the basic song structures and arrangements reflect those of the original big Motown anthems. That is a technical musical fact, mate.

Well those are great records and there are hundreds like them but there are countless thousands of sub-standard works from the same period that are now classed as "northern" - all these crossover records for a start - and the fact is that a lot of people just can't relate to these type of records but can relate to the music's original source - Rhythm & Blues.

Wouldn´t consider "classic Motown Hits" my pair of shoes either- that´s pop!

Stroll on, not that old chestnut - jesus, you must loathe Northern Soul then mate...

If there's one sure thing on this site, it's how soon intelligent threads can be turned into farsical debates on what music meets acceptance for progression of today's "Northern" scene...... ....soooooo predictable and just a matter of time before all of the same old luddite arguements are rolled out for another groundhog day session....complete with the old chestnut, gay disco reference to any soul releases post 1969....

For what it's worth, IMO there's so much more opportunity in fresher music from the 70's onwards than the opposite direction...it stands to reason....

Not really , but I really dislike most of that shallow modern stuff...

and same applies to most Motown Hits

Well those are great records and there are hundreds like them but there are countless thousands of sub-standard works from the same period that are now classed as "northern" - all these crossover records for a start - and the fact is that a lot of people just can't relate to these type of records but can relate to the music's original source - Rhythm & Blues.

The question of 'sub standard' is an interesting one. The overall quality of 60s Uptown style discovery's has indeed been receeding for a very long while. Hardly surprising is it with the unreal efforts at digging out anything of real quality. I also know there is a large amount of people who like the R/B stuff. I'm such a democrat that I've even got a DJ to play some at my 50th birthday party - even though I dont really like it myself. But as I've stated, there is also a hell of a lot of people who prefer 70s Soul and some who will go thru 80s, 90s and all the way up to 2010. Which is why I said in the first place, there is no satisfactory way of answering the question posed in this thread, without provoking argument. Still, I dont mind arguing with you Pete! Glad you've sold most of your list.

and same applies to most Motown Hits

What like 'Ill always love you', 'Roadrunner', 'Nowhere to run', 'Little Darling', 'Shake me, wake me', 'Since I lost my baby', 'Going to a Go-go', all that type of crap you mean?

Exactly

For what it's worth, IMO there's so much more opportunity in fresher music from the 70's onwards than the opposite direction...it stands to reason....

Opportunity for what?

...for more synthesizers

The question of 'sub standard' is an interesting one. The overall quality of 60s Uptown style discovery's has indeed been receeding for a very long while. Hardly surprising is it with the unreal efforts at digging out anything of real quality. I also know there is a large amount of people who like the R/B stuff. I'm such a democrat that I've even got a DJ to play some at my 50th birthday party - even though I dont really like it myself. But as I've stated, there is also a hell of a lot of people who prefer 70s Soul and some who will go thru 80s, 90s and all the way up to 2010. Which is why I said in the first place, there is no satisfactory way of answering the question posed in this thread, without provoking argument. Still, I dont mind arguing with you Pete! Glad you've sold most of your list.

Blimey, nobody is saying people shouldn't or can't prefer 70's, 80's, 90's soul, but it's just a totally different genre of music to what most people consider to be Northern Soul, thats all. And yes, I did say MOST.

[

Not picking on anyone, just your outrageously uninformed and biggotted statements.

Now this really does make me laugh considering the appalling way you treated and spoke to Ian Levine...bigoted isn't half of it.

Opportunity for what?

Sorry Pete, I thought would have been obvious.....

.....opportunity for more, fresh and quality dance floor soul...

...for more synthesizers

I'd take synthesizers over a pair of spoons and an old tin can every day of the week.....

Edited January 8, 201015 yr by Wrongcrowd

Sorry Pete, I thought would have been obvious.....

.....opportunity for more, fresh and quality dance floor soul...

Yes but it doesn't, does it, otherwise we'd hear 90% 70's+ and 10% 60's and not vice versa.

Why do people such as yourselves and Paul Sadot always have to use words like "luddite" against anyone who disagrees with you? People hear this stuff, decide it's not for them, and stick with what they know. That doesn't mean they CAN'T moce on to other stuff, it means they don't want to. And what's wrong with that? Why change something that's not broken just for your own selfish purposes - I like this therefore everyone should seems to be what some of you are saying.

I'd take synthesizers over a pair of spoons and an old tin can every day of the week.....

Oh yes, and what have you got against spoons then?

I'd take synthesizers over a pair of spoons and an old tin can every day of the week.....

See, that´s the difference, I´d prefer spoons and tin cans, I don´t collect MP3´s either

You're crackers!!

If it wasnt for music being produced in the 70s and late 60s this thing of ours would be just a distant memory to thousands of us. Especially the newer generation.Good mid to

uptempo soul with real instuments is all about we crave.

See, that´s the difference, I´d prefer spoons and tin cans, I don´t collect MP3´s either

I like wooden blocks being banged together and washboards too.

Don't like synthesisers on "soul" records.

Gotta say that 5os to me is not soul. Wasnt it called rythmn and blues ?

Gotta say that 5os to me is not soul. Wasnt it called rythmn and blues ?

All 'soul' music was called rhythm and blues until about 1964.

Gotta say that 5os to me is not soul. Wasnt it called rythmn and blues ?

If you need a tag on your music, try nowadays "Soul" on the known download platforms.

If that´s your pair of shoes, o.k.

Think you could well be right there...did they ever pay a record from the 50's at The Mecca,Torch,Casino...or even at The Wheel....??

Well they certainly did at The Wheel.

Why would they have played them at the other venues when there were thousands of 60's sides around and R&B was three decades away?

Firstly Mods...my apologies for my language.

secondly... .

thirdly...what was the original post?.

fourthly...Sorry to leave you fighting this battle on your own Pete...I've just got in from a freezing cold days work...for the 4th time this week.

Fifthly... I need to go and change my pants as i have just wet myself reading all the posts. oh, i have actually wet my pants.

Sixthly...i will post my constructive argument towards my beliefs, later on why RnB in comparrison to 7t's Gay disco crap, and all its later incarnations, is actually roots.....Soul Music....where it all began...and how unfortunate it was that Disco hijacked it and turned it into house garage pop music...for the masses...who then came to a soul night and danced to driza bone assuming that that was soul music. Then on hearing early soul/Rnb likened it to rock and roll because they had no idea where the music actually came from.

seventhly......I am not aggressive, sorry if i come over that way..but a lot of my writing is just tongue and cheek to create the result in which the initial post was actual trying to achieve...A MASS HYSTERIA BETWEEN THE DEVIL WORSHIPPERS AND THE "DANCE AROUND THE HANDBACK BRIGADE" WHO THOUGHT SOUL MUSIC STARTED IN STUDIO57.

LOOK OUT HERE COME THE MECCA BRIGADE...RUN FOR IT!!

Think you could well be right there...did they ever pay a record from the 50's at The Mecca,Torch,Casino...or even at The Wheel....??

Yes, and they didn´t play beat ballads till the Stafford era....

Gotta say that 5os to me is not soul. Wasnt it called rythmn and blues ?

It was Sidney Barnes, who, in an interview about "Northern soul", said (roughley, as i don't remember the exact wording). " To us, it was known as R AND B".

I ain't gonna argue with him!!

fourthly...Sorry to leave you fighting this battle on your own Pete...

No problem

Firstly Mods...my apologies for my language.

secondly... .

thirdly...what was the original post?.

fourthly...Sorry to leave you fighting this battle on your own Pete...I've just got in from a freezing cold days work...for the 4th time this week.

Fifthly... I need to go and change my pants as i have just wet myself reading all the posts. oh, i have actually wet my pants.

Sixthly...i will post my constructive argument towards my beliefs, later on why RnB in comparrison to 7t's Gay disco crap, and all its later incarnations, is actually roots.....Soul Music....where it all began...and how unfortunate it was that Disco hijacked it and turned it into house garage pop music...for the masses...who then came to a soul night and danced to driza bone assuming that that was soul music. Then on hearing early soul/Rnb likened it to rock and roll because they had no idea where the music actually came from.

seventhly......I am not aggressive, sorry if i come over that way..but a lot of my writing is just tongue and cheek to create the result in which the initial post was actual trying to achieve...A MASS HYSTERIA BETWEEN THE DEVIL WORSHIPPERS AND THE "DANCE AROUND THE HANDBACK BRIGADE" WHO THOUGHT SOUL MUSIC STARTED IN STUDIO57.

LOOK OUT HERE COME THE MECCA BRIGADE...RUN FOR IT!!

Sorry to be picky but wasn't it STUDIO 54 not Studio 57?

No problem

Can i borrow your ChumpZooka!! i feel i may require it, in defending myself.

Sorry to be picky but wasn't it STUDIO 54 not Studio 57?

was it. music history being my chosen.(..beh de de de de..) I've started so i'll finish.

Can i borrow your ChumpZooka!! i feel i may require it, in defending myself.

Don't worry, they'll leave you alone if I'm still on the topic, you watch. Soon as I go off to have my tea, watch your back!

This topic has just gone mental so here was the original question:

Which Era Supplies the Best Newies Of Today ?

The answer is: the 60's unless anyone can actually provide proof that it's not...like share with us an 80's discovery that's better than, I don't know, The Group featuring cecil washington

Excuse me....Think you might be 100% right there,mate!

Wigan played Gene McDaniels "Walk with a winner"...gerri Granger was hardly 100 mph

Gotta say that 5os to me is not soul. Wasnt it called rythmn and blues ?

some call it rhythm & blues. to others it was rock & roll. we ought to have a poll as in the sammy davis thing

dave

Wigan played Gene McDaniels "Walk with a winner"...gerri Granger was hardly 100 mph

O.K., change my quote to "with a few exceptions"...

Blimey, nobody is saying people shouldn't or can't prefer 70's, 80's, 90's soul, but it's just a totally different genre of music to what most people consider to be Northern Soul, thats all. And yes, I did say MOST.

Its swings and roundabouts Pete, there is no way of meeting the gap between the type of person who wants to go back to the 50s and those who want to hear Soul from the 70s and onwards in terms of newies. As for MOST, you could try a poll on here, but the wording would have to be distinct and fairly balanced. I can only talk from my own friends and I do not know anybody well who champions 50S R/B as the way forward for Newies on today's scene, that's the honest truth.

Exactly

Well, if you do not like any records like that, it's bloody hard to imagine what attracted you to Northern Soul. Bizarre.

See, that´s the difference, I´d prefer spoons and tin cans, I don´t collect MP3´s either

And you don't like classic tunes from DETROIT SPINNERS, JUNIOR WALKER, FOUR TOPS, MARTHA REEVES, MARVIN GAYE, SMOKEY AND THE MIRACLES, THE TEMPTATIONS either but you are a Northern Soul fan. (Who dismisses the bedrock of the music)

Edited January 8, 201015 yr by chorleysoul

...you are a Northern Soul fan. (Who dismisses the bedrock of the music)

Yes, as the main attraction northern soul has for me is that it´s quality music I neither hear in supermarkets nor share with Joe Public

Its swings and roundabouts Pete, there is no way of meeting the gap between the type of person who wants to go back to the 50s and those who want to hear Soul from the 70s and onwards in terms of newies. As for MOST, you could try a poll on here, but the wording would have to be distinct and fairly balanced. I can only talk from my own friends and I do not know anybody well who champions 50S R/B as the way forward for Newies on today's scene, that's the honest truth.

I only threw in the word 50's originally because one or two records like that were creeping in. But again, if you were to ask me - what would you rather hear - 50's R&B or 70's soul - I'd reply in the former. But I'd rather hear neither of them if I could just hear 60's.