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Holland-Dozier Holland: The Complete 45S Collection - Box Set


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Just to close off one of the interesting debates that's come up as a result of this box set, does anyone happen to know which studio "Finders Keepers" - Chairmen Of The Board was recorded at? We now know the reasons for the similarity between Steve Wonder's "Superstition" and "Finders Keepers" which stemmed from Stevie's visits to the Twenty Grand club in Detroit whenever Parliament played there and especially his relationship with Bernie Worrell vis a vis new keyboard technology. This came up in part in a Bootsy Collins/Bernie Worrell interview here (which is great reading if you're into this stuff):-

 

https://openvault.wgbh.org/catalog/a3e592-interview-with-bootsy-collins-and-bernie-worrell-part-2-of-3

 

 

No wonder it sounded nothing like any of the other COTB releases!

 

So we know that "Finder Keepers" was essentially a Parliament/Bernie Worrell jam but I'd still like to try and figure out where it was recorded if possible if anyone can help?

 

Cheers,

 

Ian D  :D

Edited by Ian Dewhirst
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LOL, no biters on the above, buts that's fine 'cos these labels are shrouded in mystique anyway.

 

For instance, did anyone know that it was Eddie Holland who set up Invictus, Hot Wax and Gold Forever Music and also instigated all the proceedings with the recordings from '68? Eddie had only been signed to an artist contract with Motown and when that lapsed he was free to split. Brian and Lamont were both signed as writers and producers, so were essentially bound by more constrictive contractual obligations which they had to sit out until they could join him later. Yet Eddie Holland was Berry Gordy's No.1 guy in the 50's. He did all the demos for Jackie Wilson apparently and was the artist on the second Tamla release in 1959:- 

 

https://www.discogs.com/artist/589715-Edward-Holland-Jr

 

We're gonna be lucky enough to grill him hopefully. Eddie has kindly consented to undertake some PR for this project. So, does anybody out there have any questions which they fancy posing to Eddie Holland?

 

Following a hugely successful appearance by Holland-Dozier-Holland at the Rock And Roll Museum in Cleveland, the HDH organization have made it clear that they'll welcome questions from the committed experts and enthusiasts in the UK and I don't wanna disappoint 'em..... :)

 

So any questions which get pitched here, will be collated and sent through to Eddie, so any takers out there?

 

Ian D :D

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Just to close off one of the interesting debates that's come up as a result of this box set, does anyone happen to know which studio "Finders Keepers" - Chairmen Of The Board was recorded at? We now know the reasons for the similarity between Steve Wonder's "Superstition" and "Finders Keepers" which stemmed from Stevie's visits to the Twenty Grand club in Detroit whenever Parliament played there and especially his relationship with Bernie Worrell vis a vis new keyboard technology. This came up in part in a Bootsy Collins/Bernie Worrell interview here (which is great reading if you're into this stuff):-

 

https://openvault.wgbh.org/catalog/a3e592-interview-with-bootsy-collins-and-bernie-worrell-part-2-of-3

 

 

No wonder it sounded nothing like any of the other COTB releases!

 

So we know that "Finder Keepers" was essentially a Parliament/Bernie Worrell jam but I'd still like to try and figure out where it was recorded if possible if anyone can help?

 

Cheers,

 

Ian D  :D

 

Sounds like a trick question? :)  Is there any reason it wouldn't be recorded at Tower Theatre? I know Dennis Coffey played on Finders Keepers and with regard to Invictus I've only seen him make reference to Terra Shirma  and Tower Theatre.

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Sounds like a trick question? :)  Is there any reason it wouldn't be recorded at Tower Theatre? I know Dennis Coffey played on Finders Keepers and with regard to Invictus I've only seen him make reference to Terra Shirma  and Tower Theatre.

 

Nope, no trick question Maslar. The fact that "Finders Keepers" was NOTHING like any other COTB record has bugged me for the last 40+ years. I could never quite get how the COTB suddenly switched from their traditional Motown sound to a completely different contemporary funk sound. Now it's all beginning to make sense, although "Finders Keepers" is the most commercial record that the Parliament never made. The fact that it was an early Bernie Worrell jam makes all the sense in the world now.....

 

Ian D :D

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Nope, no trick question Maslar. The fact that "Finders Keepers" was NOTHING like any other COTB record has bugged me for the last 40+ years. I could never quite get how the COTB suddenly switched from their traditional Motown sound to a completely different contemporary funk sound. Now it's all beginning to make sense, although "Finders Keepers" is the most commercial record that the Parliament never made. The fact that it was an early Bernie Worrell jam makes all the sense in the world now.....

 

Ian D :D

 

I've always thought COTB had a hard edge that most people don't associate with them. Finders Keepers reminds me of earlier stuff like Tricked and Trapped, although like you says its taken one step further. with their later work. and collaboration with Pfunk musicians,

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I've always thought COTB had a hard edge that most people don't associate with them. Finders Keepers reminds me of earlier stuff like Tricked and Trapped, although like you says its taken one step further. with their later work. and collaboration with Pfunk musicians,

 

Well it was their last bona fide UK hit record in June '73. Certainly a departure from their traditional sound, but essentially it was an ultra-commercial Parliament/Bernie Worrell jam that was aping "Superstition". But the arrangement and production were years ahead in my view. Also, I think Danny Woods just killed this tune! Amazing vocals!

 

Ian D :D

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Unbelievable. The whole of Soul Source gets invited to ask Eddie Holland some questions and we get a big fat zero thus far............. :g:

 

OK, no probs. Lemme get Pharrell on the phone and start firing this sucker up.......... :lol:

 

Ian D :D

 

 

How how about getting some insight into the Gordy quality control process that he was part of, I believe. Was it as brutal as it sounded. Who got last say the group disagreed or did Berry get final say always.

 

and if you are really brave, ask the story behind the split with Motown?

 

 

and cheesy but interesting, most talented artist they worked with, and most talented in house songwriter they envied. 

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How how about getting some insight into the Gordy quality control process that he was part of, I believe. Was it as brutal as it sounded. Who got last say the group disagreed or did Berry get final say always.

 

and if you are really brave, ask the story behind the split with Motown?

 

 

and cheesy but interesting, most talented artist they worked with, and most talented in house songwriter they envied. 

 

Good questions Jocko. I'll pitch 'em and well done 'cos you're the first with the questions.

 

I think the way we'll do this, when I get to 10 or so questions, I'll submit them and see what comes back. HDH realise that there's a lot a haziness about this period and I believe they've all made peace with Berry Gordy again so they probably won't be in a hurry to upset the applecart, if you see what I mean. However, all my dealings with 'em thus far indicate that they understand that people are fascinated with this period and would like to know more. The door is open so what the hell? We'll ask 'em anything and see what comes back...:)

 

Ian D :D

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Please ask HDH how they recruited moonlighting Funk Bros in the early days....Jack Ashford's book refers to this I think. I think there is a bit were he refers to photographs being banned.

Ralph Terrana as recently been talking about Terra Shirma sessions on SDF....perhaps Ralph might get involved.

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Another

 

Did HDH take songs that were earmarked for Motown ....projects on 4 Tops (COTB),Supremes (Honey Cone), Diana Ross (Freda Payne)

 

and of course the real HDH/ Dunbar Wayne story.....was it HDH who really wrote the early tracks.

thanks

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It is rumoured that HDH wanted their own label at Motown....exclusive projects for them. Gordy's refusal was the reason they left (no doubt finance comes in to it).

Would HDH elaborate on the fallout?

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Just to close off one of the interesting debates that's come up as a result of this box set, does anyone happen to know which studio "Finders Keepers" - Chairmen Of The Board was recorded at? We now know the reasons for the similarity between Steve Wonder's "Superstition" and "Finders Keepers" which stemmed from Stevie's visits to the Twenty Grand club in Detroit whenever Parliament played there and especially his relationship with Bernie Worrell vis a vis new keyboard technology. This came up in part in a Bootsy Collins/Bernie Worrell interview here (which is great reading if you're into this stuff):-

 

https://openvault.wgbh.org/catalog/a3e592-interview-with-bootsy-collins-and-bernie-worrell-part-2-of-3

 

 

 

No wonder it sounded nothing like any of the other COTB releases!

 

So we know that "Finder Keepers" was essentially a Parliament/Bernie Worrell jam but I'd still like to try and figure out where it was recorded if possible if anyone can help?

 

Cheers,

 

Ian D  :D

 

You need to see the track in connection with the whole album. The whole album has the same style. Here's a piece of a discussion on the old soulfuldetroit forums (I've anonymised the user names):

 

user ****1

Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 7:45 pm:

Bernie Worrell, Eddie Hazel, Billy Bass Nelson, Tiki Fulwood played on "Skin I'm In"

user ****2

Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 1:41 pm:

My friend, Raymond Johnson played keyboard for a short period of time for the group. He is not on any of their recordings. During Raymond's time with them, there was Jack Myers (Alecia's brother) who replaced Beverly Yancy on bass, Donell Kindell-guitar, Johnny Johnson-drums, Ken-sax. He has no idea if any of those named recorded with the group.

user ****3

Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 6:38 am:       Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

[user ****1] is correct. It was those four (Bernie, Billy, Tiki & Eddie) plus Donald Baldwin (2nd keyboard player/rhythm guitar). I've been told that one exception is that Uriel played drums on the album's bigget hit, 'Finder's Keepers'.

There's a color photo from one of those UK 'soul' magazines with the caption COB and band. In the photo is The General, Danny, Harrison Kennedy, Bernie Worrell, Tiki Fulwood, Donald Baldwin & Billy Bass. Eddie Hazel was 'suppossed' to be there for the photo shoot but nobody could find him.

 

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If you look at "Chicago Hit Factory - The Vee-Jay Story"....

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chicago-Hit-Factory-Story-1958-1966/dp/tracks/B00IY28XK0/ref=dp_tracks_all_full#disc_1

 

and look at the track listing, it shows the listings for the HDH set.

 

Very strange....... :rofl:

 

Correct listing......

 

https://www.allmusic.com/album/vee-jay-records-chicago-hit-factory-mw0000774473

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If you look at "Chicago Hit Factory - The Vee-Jay Story"....

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chicago-Hit-Factory-Story-1958-1966/dp/tracks/B00IY28XK0/ref=dp_tracks_all_full#disc_1

 

and look at the track listing, it shows the listings for the HDH set.

 

Very strange....... :rofl:

 

That's just plain weird. They have the Vee Jay titles and the Holland-Dozier-Holland artists! Trying to get the correct listings on Amazon is a friggin' nightmare these days. It drives me barmy..........also there's 14 CDs in the HDH set not 8! Been trying to fix this for the last few weeks and I've run out of patience now!

 

Ian D  :D

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  • 3 weeks later...

Wow! Finished copies arrived on Tuesday but I've only just had the chance to examine one.

Result? Utterly fantastic to have the complete Invictus/Hot Wax and Music Merchant U.S. 45s, both A and B sides at your fingertips, thus releasing the pain-in-the-ass job of trying to find the stuff in your collection! A very very handy piece of kit whichever way you look at it.

Plus the package just looks great and is really easy to navigate. Naturally this is my own view and I'm obviously completely biased but it certainly does the job for me. Pre-sales on this are simply incredible and I'm heartened by the fact that the export orders for this are really incredible for a box set of this size.

So I'm delighted. Time to go on holiday whilst I'm still on a natural high. Out on Monday. Don't dick around. Just order it now! Will post some pics of the finished package when I get if I remember!

Ian D :)

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Also it's currently holding the Harmless record for export pre-sales orders and is a buzz album on Amazon plus we have some amazing press and radio unfolding over the next few weeks so hopefully we'll get some decent coverage before the World Cup onslaught. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when Brian, Eddie and Lamont get to see the finished article! Hopefully they'll be as blown away as I am! Couldn'tbehappier.com.

 

Massive thanks to Mike and all @ Soul Source for the quality of the membership! We've enjoyed huge support from the Soul Source fraternity and all contributors have been respectfully credited within the package. Seriously, this incredible package would have been impossible to assemble without the contributions of many key S.S. contributors so pat yourselves on the back fellas! This is one to be proud of!

 

Amazon Bestsellers Rank: 1,859 in Music (See Top 100 in Music)

 

https://www.amazon.co...versary box set

 

Oh, did I mention it's out on Monday?

 

Thanks to all!

 

Ian D :)

Edited by Ian Dewhirst
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Got the long job of ripping all 14 CDs to iTunes.  I'm guessing there won't be any info on Gracenote yet.

 

Well you've been pretty quick of the mark old bean, but hopefully it will be up there as we completed all the ISRC codes. Fingers crossed 'cos tagging 14 x CDs would take an age. I know this 'cos I had to type it all up in the first place!

 

Ian D :D

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Well you've been pretty quick of the mark old bean, but hopefully it will be up there as we completed all the ISRC codes. Fingers crossed 'cos tagging 14 x CDs would take an age. I know this 'cos I had to type it all up in the first place!

 

Ian D :D

 

I'll be looking out for any spelling mistakes.

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Got the long job of ripping all 14 CDs to iTunes.  I'm guessing there won't be any info on Gracenote yet.

 

My copy arrived yesterday and was ripped into I tunes all the info was there thankfully I would hate to have to type it all in myself

 

and I have to agree it is a very impressive box set  :D

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My copy arrived yesterday and was ripped into I tunes all the info was there thankfully I would hate to have to type it all in myself

 

and I have to agree it is a very impressive box set  :D

 

Just finished ripping it, and guess what, my 160GB iPod Classic is full!  Trying to free up some space.

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Just finished ripping it, and guess what, my 160GB iPod Classic is full!  Trying to free up some space.

 

LOL, serves you right for being greedy! I never did work out exactly how many hours of music there is on there. Gotta be 16-18 hours at a guess....?

 

Ian D :D

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Guest Motown Junkies

Mine arrived today - a beautiful package and a great job by all involved. Well done!

 

I didn't see this thread until just now, so I'm probably about a month and a half too late to get in on the Eddie questions action, but this is something that has always bothered me - I would love to hear the answer from the horse's mouth so to speak.  This is what I posted on my blog a couple of years ago:

 

 

It’s one of the stranger aspects of the Motown story — Eddie was one of the all-time great songwriters, but he was no slouch as a vocalist, and some of his deliveries take no prisoners. So I’ve never really understood why he apparently chose to walk away from that life in favour of songwriting — Smokey Robinson managed to combine his very prolific writer/producer duties with performing, after all.  If indeed it was his choice, of course. If I had more time and bottle, I’d write and ask him.

 

Right, now, to start digging through the various B-sides I've never heard before!

Thanks again to Ian and to everyone who made this happen.

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Well you've been pretty quick of the mark old bean, but hopefully it will be up there as we completed all the ISRC codes. Fingers crossed 'cos tagging 14 x CDs would take an age. I know this 'cos I had to type it all up in the first place!

 

Ian D :D

Just tried to rip them using Windows Media player and it is coming up as an "unknown album". I presume it will come over time.

 

Kev

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Mine arrived today - a beautiful package and a great job by all involved. Well done!

 

I didn't see this thread until just now, so I'm probably about a month and a half too late to get in on the Eddie questions action, but this is something that has always bothered me - I would love to hear the answer from the horse's mouth so to speak.  This is what I posted on my blog a couple of years ago:

 

 

Right, now, to start digging through the various B-sides I've never heard before!

Thanks again to Ian and to everyone who made this happen.

 

 

I think it is understood that Eddie Holland didn't like appearing in live shows or concerts. Also, he saw that the real finances in recording lay with the song writers and copyright deals.

He just moved into that aspect of the business.

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Ordered my box set...can't wait to hear some of the rarer items. Got a good selection of Invictus/Hot Wax/ Music Merchant, but this set is great value.

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Wow! A first for Harmless! No.1 on all 3 Amazon charts! Many thanks for everyone's support!

Amazon Bestsellers Rank: 310 in Music (See Top 100 in Music)

#1 in Music > Pop > Disco

#1 in Music > R&B and Soul > Classic R&B

#1 in Music > R&B and Soul > Motown

Ian D :)

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Wow! A first for Harmless! No.1 on all 3 Amazon charts! Many thanks for everyone's support!

Amazon Bestsellers Rank: 310 in Music (See Top 100 in Music)

#1 in Music > Pop > Disco

#1 in Music > R&B and Soul > Classic R&B

#1 in Music > R&B and Soul > Motown

Ian D :)

 

You're welcome.  By the way, Freda was spelt Frida on one of the discs when I downloaded the album info on iTunes.  Had to drop a star for this.

 

PS Not impressed that the price has dropped by almost £12 since I bought it off Amazon.

 

PPS Fifth star re-instated since being refunded the difference by Amazon.  Less than £50 for 14 CDs!  Nice one.

Edited by Steve S 60
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my copy was £60.99

 

I've just contacted Amazon to complain about the 20% price drop a week after release, and they've refunded me the difference.  Don't know if that's because I pre-ordered at the higher price, but I'd get in touch and get them to give you a call back.

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You're welcome.  By the way, Freda was spelt Frida on one of the discs when I downloaded the album info on iTunes.  Had to drop a star for this.

 

PS Not impressed that the price has dropped by almost £12 since I bought it off Amazon.

 

PPS Fifth star re-instated since being refunded the difference by Amazon.  Less than £50 for 14 CDs!  Nice one.

 

LOL, glad I got the 5th Star re-instated! 

 

Ian D  :thumbup:

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I've just contacted Amazon to complain about the 20% price drop a week after release, and they've refunded me the difference.  Don't know if that's because I pre-ordered at the higher price, but I'd get in touch and get them to give you a call back.

Thans

is there a phone number? can't see one!

 

 

Update

 

rang Amazon...they say they will refund the difference in price...thans Steve, I'd have missed that

Edited by Guest
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Thans

is there a phone number? can't see one!

 

Just request a call back by filling in your own number and they ring you straight away.  I think you have to select customer services, and it gives you the option to phone, then after picking options from a drop down, you get the request call back option.

Edited by Steve S 60
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I've just contacted Amazon to complain about the 20% price drop a week after release, and they've refunded me the difference.  Don't know if that's because I pre-ordered at the higher price, but I'd get in touch and get them to give you a call back.

 

This happens a lot with Amazon with higher priced stuff like box sets. I have stopped pre-ordering and give it a couple of weeks to see where the price settles. Having said that, I thought the original price was pretty good, so have just ordered at the new price; which is a proper bargain!

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Received an e-mail from Amazon regarding refund, but they were keen to point out that it was an exception, and not their regular policy. I admit it was not a pre-order, but ordered only 3 days ago.

Amazon have taken that into account I think......

It's only £11 but if Amazon had not refunded it, they would have lost a good customer......I do buy a fair few CDs off them!

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