Great show tonight by Shaz Osborne highlighting the royalties got out of a successful 60s record..

1penny out of a 66 penny 45rpm single sale. With their expenses deducted from that penny!

Some pretty angry stars interviewed after they realised what they signed up to!

You can see from this how many artists went back to a day job even after a couple of hits.

No wonder many of our 'soul stars ' never enjoyed financial gain for their efforts.

Ed

 

 

 

It's really sad, but it happened again in the 80s with the early house pioneers. Most of them didn't even get a royalties, but just a one off payment for the tape. 

I didn't watch it but I would be interested to know if she mentioned her father, Don Arden, who was one of the worst rip off merchants going.

He is mentioned in context of Small Faces when I saw this before. I do not recall his reputed worst excesses being mentioned.

I enjoyed it.

It's ironic. The music has enriched so many people's lives. But just inches below the surface so much ugly stuff going on.

Edited October 14, 20177 yr by MBarrett

The programme makers did not cut Don Arden any slack....................obviously Shaz did not condemn him, but in conclusion he was no guardian of the artists interest alone.

The 'savvy' artists eventually got proper Lawyers to protect their cut.

One interesting fact was that when 'cd's' came out, the record companies made massive amounts of money selling reproduced album's at a 50% hike on album costs but cd's cost virually nothing to produce.

Ed

The upcoming music documentary on RUDY LOVE goes into the rip-offs that occured to him down the years, starting when he signed with Canyon Records right on through the 70's. Makes interesting viewing.

And those very early first CD's were sub standard in many cases, perishing over the years. Also many new CD compilations back then had some re-makes of popular cuts with the original artist singing with a new backing track. They were awful. 

The PRS/MCPS and PPL are fighting for writer/performer royalties constantly. The different territories are getting together with todays technology and are creating massive database of songs/recordings that they share to help everybody try and control the old and new songs/recordings. Pity the labels did not respectfully acknowledge the changes in the business and maybe remunerate with a bonus or something to those involved vocally or musically, despite what the contract said. It would be an honourable thing to do.

I released a track called 'Soul recession' by Philly group Double Exposure in 2009. The day it was released, somebody bought every mix, hacked it to pieces, added extra drums, guitars etc to the front and gave it away suggesting people should check the original out. Our song/production was bastardised by a very good re-mixer, but we do not stand a chance if that is how it works. The Philly Grooved 3 Tom Moulton remix was licensed officially from us.

Sadly digits (recording techniques/mixing and mastering) are making labels and artists re invent themselves which is not a bad thing. So you are right tomangoes, there is no financial gain at all being a song writer, producer, mixer, masterer, singer, label at my level. I do not shift much vinyl wise or digitally, but it still costs thousands to cut some of my songs. And then......there is Youtube where I guess much of it is posted illegally with the 'I do not own the copyright' bs disclaimer and the millennium digital safe harbour rubbish. On saying that, in this territory now, song writers can report th eurl and get a royalty despite the label or artists getting anything.

Edited October 19, 20177 yr by Carl Dixon

Prompted by a related current thread ... 

The best way to make money in the music biz in the long term has proved to be to get your name registered as the writer of a song. When a recording of that song was released / is reissued OR a different version is released, the only folk who can be sure they'll get their dues are the songs writers (unless you're a US writer & not registered with a UK publisher --  of honour).

Lots of guys knew this from early on, thus all the songs credited to Deadric Malone.

A guy who was ripped off in many different ways down the years was RUDY LOVE.

He wrote songs for most of his career & recorded for labels, large & small.

Until he started releasing his own stuff, he only ever got to enjoy 2 album releases in the Us (both on Calla -- 76 & 78). He also had 2 UK LP releases but neither of them included his Calla stuff. One of his UK releases was credited to Tyrone Davis and were in fact Rudy's cuts for Canyon Records. The 2nd here was released by the BBC and consisted of his tracks cut for Motown South in Muscle Shoals.

To make matters even worse, most of the songs that appeared on the Manhattan LP credited to Tyrone Davis had been 'borrowed' by other writers to cut on other acts signed to the Roker / Canyon group of labels. Of course those other writers took the writers credits, so Rudy not only didn't get his 1970 album released but he didn't even get his rightful writers credits. It seems that the guys who ripped him off (who could have included Wally Roker / Dee Irwin / Barry Despenza) were the same bunch who licensed the Manhattan UK LP to President and presumably were rewarded for doing so.    

Just coz I can; I'm also posting up Rudy's 45 that was released right after Canyon went bust (on the Earthquake label which I seem to recall Rudy telling me had connections to Ray Charles) ...  Dee Irwin also had a 45 out on the label.

Edited October 22, 20231 yr by Roburt

Just to ensure complete info on Rudy & his UK exploits are on this thread  ....

His BBC Radioplay Lp + a pic of him performing @ the 100 Club ...

ALSO the song "Seems Like I Gotta Do Wrong" is a bit strange. Rudy cut it for Canyon but the versions of the song released at the time had it credited to Dee Ervin (Irwin) & Lynn Farr. It was a hit & other versions have been cut down the years. BUT STRANGELY it isn't a registered song with either BMI or ASCAP. I guess who penned it has always been disputed (& with Rudy Love having passed, I guess he will not be pushing his case anymore).

Edited October 22, 20231 yr by Roburt

‘Seems like I gotta do wrong’ was published by Wally Roker Music. A hit for The Whispers it was copywrited in Feb 1970.

Could Roker have registered it at ASCAP or BMI under a different song title? 
Stevie G has written about Roker. Maybe he can throw some light.

16 hours ago, Dukeofburgundy said:

‘Seems like I gotta do wrong’ was published by Wally Roker Music. A hit for The Whispers it was copywrited in Feb 1970.

 

I would have been as Wally Roker owned both Canyon & Soul Clock Records. Soul Clock was started by Ron Carson but soon taken over by Roker.

All I can say is that most people told me that Wally Roker was a "good guy". We have no idea why the Manhattan LP came out in the UK credited to "Tyrone Davis" but it is a stretch to suggest that the US licensees were the ones behind the name change and I haven't seen any evidence to suggest anything other than the fact that the US guys licensed some tracks. It is certainly true that Roker was overstretched when he was running Canyon / Soul Clock etc., and distributing other labels such as Pride (he told me that he was over stretched himself). At the end of the day, it all comes down to contracts and what is agreed within them. 

Edited October 24, 20231 yr by Steve G

I listened to Boba's interview with the Traits / Centre stage. The guys from the group said that it was Despenza that originally gave them the name the Traits. The guys went off & did other things with another manager after their Contact 45's had gone cold ... one member (Kirk Davis) went out to LA & joined the Major IV. They got back together around 71 and Despenza re-signed them. He recut them on their old hit as Center Stage and put the new 45 out on Dispo. He then got them signed by RCA, but forged their signatures on the RCA contract & went off with their signing bonus cheque (they never did get to see any of that money). They had cut some other tracks under Donny Hathaway's supervision & RCA put those out (2 x 45's). The group then cut stuff directly for RCA but RCA management were a bit unnerved by the whole situation surrounding the group & never released any of their additional tracks. When asked about Despenza, they said he was corrupt but a genius.

Boba & the guys also say that their 1st RCA 45 had also been put out by Despenza on Marc (it featured their cover version of "Are You There" but was mis-titled on the Marc 45 version).