I've uploaded an interview with Joey - the sound quality is iffy for a few minutes, but it gets better.

He had an interesting life and worked at Thelma and Riley's...

  

 

 

 

Before Joey Kingfish (Joey King Fish) was a songwriter and later, producer, with Thelma, he was a recording artist with Billy Davis at Check-Mate Records.  I'm really looking forward to listening to this interview.  I'm curious to know with which other Detroit labels he worked.  I DO remember seeing his name connected with at least a couple other labels on a few later records.  But, I'm even more interested in his beginnings in the industry, given that he looked quite old in all the Thelma period photos I've seen of him.

Absolute Class Stuff as per all of your previous Detroit interviews, Very Much Appreciated....Please Keep 'Em Coming !!!

2 hours ago, Wilxy said:

Absolute Class Stuff as per all of your previous Detroit interviews, Very Much Appreciated....Please Keep 'Em Coming !!!

Glad you like it.

I should get another one done pretty soon.

7 hours ago, Robbk said:

Before Joey Kingfish (Joey King Fish) was a songwriter and later, producer, with Thelma, he was a recording artist with Billy Davis at Check-Mate Records.  I'm really looking forward to listening to this interview.  I'm curious to know with which other Detroit labels he worked.  I DO remember seeing his name connected with at least a couple other labels on a few later records.  But, I'm even more interested in his beginnings in the industry, given that he looked quite old in all the Thelma period photos I've seen of him.

It's a shame the first interview has such poor sound quality -- not sure why is sounds so muddy. He told a good story.

The second interview has better sound quality, so is easier to understand, and I would have had two 15-minute videos if that first recording was better.

In the first interview, he talked about living in Highland Park and going to school there - it was a white area at that time. He became a pro boxer for a while, and told me about his early touring experiences. 

He was born on Feb 25th, 1938. 

Anyway, hopefully you learned something.

Edited September 27, 20213 yr by G F
details added

I knew he was a guitarist, and played on sessions, but I didn't know that he was the in-house band leader both at Thelma and Diamond Jim Riley's labels, and maybe even for a while at Check-Mate.  I also didn't know he worked for Motown for a year.  He said that Hazel Coleman got him in there.  He worked with Marvin Gaye.  That would have to have been just after he was at Thelma (Late 1965 and early 1966 - just before he started with Riley, or between Check-Mate (late 1962-early 1964) before joining Thelma.  I wish I could hear those parts of the interview better.  His bands played a lot of gigs as the venues' house band, backing up different appearing acts.  I also hadn't known that.  I wonder who else was in those bands of his.

Sorry about the quality, Robb. It's a shame it's not very clear as I would have liked to include more of his personal details that he shared with me in that first interview.

Kingfish was heavily involved at Riley's at the start, but left in 1968 and got a job in Chrysler's.

It was Hazel Coleman who got him in the Gold Room at the 20 Grand - but he was already playing there with Levi Mann in the house band. That included Lefty Edwards (sax), Pistol on drums and Levi Mann on organ - no bass player. Martha Jean began the Monday Night Swing event there in 1964 and she was generally involved in promoting Thelma acts elsewhere.

Imagine being in the Gold Room with all those live acts and a crowd of 1200!.. And for just 50 cents!!

Thelma Gordy/Coleman went to see her ex-husband and he complained about certain Thelma songs being too close to his Motown hits - by Marvin Gaye and The Four Tops. As you know, Thelma Records got bought up by Berry about a year or two later.

Kingfish went from Thelma Records to Golden World (for Solid Hitbound Productions working with Melvin Davis and Steve Mancha) then worked at Riley's - all in the mid-sixties.

Before all that, Kingfish had been with Motown, but it was Andre Williams who took him there. Kingfish was basically ignored there and was earmarked to go on a 50-night tour, but he couldn't read music and Sonny Sanders rejected him. The tour was with Hattie Littles and The Vandellas - so I guess it was around 1961.

Kingfish then got a release and did that recording for Check-Mate. I don't think he played much else, if anything, for Billy Davis because that was the last 45 on the label.

Hopefully that gives you and others here some clarification.

 

I can imagine David Ruffin singing that Chuck Jackson song.

Just great thank you. I won’t hurt you anymore is one of my all time favourites and so many of his other collaborations are up there at thelma and Riley’s. Put a smile on my face is just wonderful - was he the lead singer. 

He sounds such a great guy - not bitter about royalties. And he recorded with so many of our Detroit heroes - Emanuel Laskey just to name one. 

Really appreciate this Paul Temple

"Put a smile on my face is just wonderful - was he the lead singer."

No, E.J of the Echoes (see their photo) sang that song.

I did ask Fish about John Perry - another writer/producer - but he couldn't recall much about him, which surprised me. Kingfish did said he thought John Perry did some stuff at Motown, but I don't think so.

I'm glad you enjoyed hearing the interview, and, yes, Kingfish's 'I Won't Hurt You Anymore' is a gem. 

That's a great piece of ephemera! I wonder who actually wrote it?...I don't think it was Fish. 

On 27/09/2021 at 19:14, Rictic66 said:

Just great thank you. I won’t hurt you anymore is one of my all time favourites and so many of his other collaborations are up there at thelma and Riley’s. Put a smile on my face is just wonderful - was he the lead singer. 

He sounds such a great guy - not bitter about royalties. And he recorded with so many of our Detroit heroes - Emanuel Laskey just to name one. 

Really appreciate this Paul Temple

EJ has a smile on his face 😀

Loving these interviews!!!!

Me too and love your music lyric sheet. Words might just be added to my sleeve....... PT

14 hours ago, G F said:

That's a great piece of ephemera! I wonder who actually wrote it?...I don't think it was Fish. 

It has a copyright of 1971 (Third Series) and listed as him

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dzohAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA2807&lpg=PA2807&dq=joe+stribling+i+won't+hurt+you&source=bl&ots=i6Iy3XCofq&sig=ACfU3U0pVhre1O7B1kcBBi6kVTedX6zXvg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjE1enOiLrzAhXcQEEAHXQBDEYQ6AF6BAgUEAM#v=onepage&q=joe stribling i won't hurt you&f=false

I know Kingfish wrote the song, but I just wondered who wrote that sheet, as he told me he had a problem reading music.

2 hours ago, G F said:

I know Kingfish wrote the song, but I just wondered who wrote that sheet, as he told me he had a problem reading music.

I would guess that he corroberated with someone else at Thelma to get the music written down.  It probably wasn't Don Davis, because, I believe Davis had already left Thelma to concentrate on his Groovesville Music and record label, and to work with Ed Wingate's Golden World labels by the time the song was written.  It must have been the arranger in Thelma's house band (and that band was probably Stribling's own band he also used for his local gigs).  Unfortunately, unlike many record companies, Thelma didn't usually credit the arrangers on their records' labels.  The only one I have listed is Floyd Jones.  He was probably a musician in Thelma's house band (which was also Fish's gigging band).  I wish we could find out which other musicians were in it.  I know that James Jamerson was a musician there in 1961 and '62 (and possibly into early '63), before he started working exclusively for Motown.  But, he most likely wouldn't have had time to moonlight at Thelma by 1965-66.

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

I would guess that he corroberated with someone else at Thelma to get the music written down.  It probably wasn't Don Davis, because, I believe Davis had already left Thelma to concentrate on his Groovesville Music and record label, and to work with Ed Wingate's Golden World labels by the time the song was written.  It must have been the arranger in Thelma's house band (and that band was probably Stribling's own band he also used for his local gigs).  Unfortunately, unlike many record companies, Thelma didn't usually credit the arrangers on their records' labels.  The only one I have listed is Floyd Jones.  He was probably a musician in Thelma's house band (which was also Fish's gigging band).  I wish we could find out which other musicians were in it.  I know that James Jamerson was a musician there in 1961 and '62 (and possibly into early '63), before he started working exclusively for Motown.  But, he most likely wouldn't have had time to moonlight at Thelma by 1965-66.

Norman Whitfield was doing stuff at Thelma I seem to remember 

8 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Norman Whitfield was doing stuff at Thelma I seem to remember 

Not in 1965 or later, which was when Kingfish wrote and recorded "I Won't Hurt You".  Don Davis had already left for Golden World, and his own Groovesville Records.  Whitfield had left for Motown, and so had assistant producer, Richard Street, and his group, The Majestics.  After Davis left, Stribling was Thelma's A&R man, chief producer, and in-house band leader, with other producers, Clay MacMurray, Don Juan Mancha, and James Goffphine, and arrangers, Floyd Jones and Rudy Robinson.  By the way..... organist/pianist Rudy Robinson (who worked with Mike Hanks, but also moonlighted at Thelma, as well as many other labels), was also a possible chartwriter for the music.

But, actually, the publishing was shared by Thelma, Don Davis' Groovesville Music, and Don Davis' and LeBaron Taylor's Solid Hitbound Productions.  And it was listed as a Solid Hitbound Production.  So, I think Joey brought this song with him from Thelma when he left them in 1966 (probably when Motown bought them out), and before he started working with Diamond Jim Bradley, to his old boss, Don Davis at Solid Hitbound.  So Davis might have written the charts (or Steve Mancha or Melvin Davis, both of whom worked with Don at Groovesville Records).