What is the collecting scene coming to when a collector/Dj would rather pay four, five times more for a record because a repress has a different colour label.  Sometimes it doesn’t have that yet the stupid OVO brigade would stone a Dj god forbid they play a repress.

It would seem many do not understand the process behind vinyl manufacturing and that a repress, which is done from the same masters with no difference in the matrix details in the run out and is still a first issue.  It isn’t until a new master is made and a new matrix that it becomes a reissue.  A million seller will go through approximately 10 masters, maybe a few more depending on degradation and quality of the stampers.

It was once said by Motown that “It’s What’s In The Grooves That Counts” but today that could never be further from the truth.  It’s all down to the colour of the label.  Imagine how the artist feels when some fool says you cannot play that as it has a different label?

I hate the whole OVO (original vinyl only) debate, it’s been done to death a million times and I've no desire to start another topic but the collecting scene is slowly disappearing up its own backside all because some promoters or Djs have an agenda because they have spent £150 on a record and god forbid anyone playing one that costs a tenner.  It all seems to be about what you spend to get a booking, not the quality of your set.  Cheque book Djs have always been around particular more so in recent years.  They get talked about, rightly or wrongly, and this provides a promotional tool for the promoter.

Now I am not advocating bootlegs or even the playing of reissues.  I am a staunch traditionalist when it comes to the Northern Soul scene.  I wholly believe in the playing of original records.  However,  this is all about recent releases, releases designed to create an instant rarity.  Surely the artist is the one who is suffering, Try telling them you cannot play a certain record because it wasn’t done first?  Crazy.   What happened to providing for your market not a select few 100, again the artist is suffering when more sales can often be achieved.  I know the license isn’t as simple as that but the cost difference between 300 and 500 discs is very little with often a handful only needing to be sold to cover the additional costs.  I’ve heard storage space being one reason!  Surely if you believe in your product and the quality is good enough then surely it will sell and storage space isn’t a problem.

Many collectors are missing out on some really good music and it is time the labels addressed this.  It would also put a stop to the greedy sellers exploiting the situation and charging a three figure sum for something that should be £20/£30 maximum.

Lastly I’m not having a go at anyone in particular nor is this a dig at label owners who I know put in a lot of hard work, if you have been reading forums you will know where this arose and I stress I am not having a dig at anyone, rather a moan about the whole situation.  I know many don’t even bother with or even trying to secure new releases because of this, even releases that don’t sell out and it is the label who ultimately suffers.  

When it begins to come down to the colour of a label or a mark on a label, an apple being used on one recent press, then it is well and truly knackered.

Edited April 28, 20223 yr by Chalky

2 minutes ago, Benji said:

@Chalky

sorry if this may sound a bit daft. but am i getting it right that you' pi**ed off about people paying much more for first pressings of new releases than for second or third or whatever pressings when they there is hardly any difference between them? And they all were pressed at more or less same time?

 

They can pay what they want in my opinion.  But there is no need to make an instant rarity and no need to distinguish a second run from the first pressing run.  They are both first issues, both originals.

Its the whole stupid ideology some seem have in their hearts about playing one over the other.  It seems to be more about the colour of a label, or the vinyl rather than "what's in the grooves".

If DJ 2 was miffed because DJ 1 "rolled their eyes" when they played the second batch slightly different colour version of a newly released tune.....

I'm glad I stopped looking at the turntables 44 years ago, and so could be blissfully ignorant of what label was being played.

Then again....one-upmanship is a corner stone of Northern Soul collecting, and unlikely to change anytime soon.

Ed

 

30 minutes ago, Chalky said:

They can pay what they want in my opinion.  But there is no need to make an instant rarity and no need to distinguish a second run from the first pressing run.  They are both first issues, both originals.

Its the whole stupid ideology some seem have in their hearts about playing one over the other.  It seems to be more about the colour of a label, or the vinyl rather than "what's in the grooves".

So it's ok to distinguish between different pressing runs of new releases? And maybe it's ok that first run is worth a tad more than the other(s) but there shouldn't be a significant difference price-wise between them? Then I fully agree with you.

56 minutes ago, Benji said:

So it's ok to distinguish between different pressing runs of new releases? And maybe it's ok that first run is worth a tad more than the other(s) but there shouldn't be a significant difference price-wise between them? Then I fully agree with you.

Why distinguish though?  Both from same master, both identical.  Every big seller has several presses, you don't see radio and club djs bitching about which came first.  

Just keep them the same and put a stop to the exploitation and uneasy that exists.

Edited May 3, 20223 yr by Chalky

1 hour ago, Tomangoes said:

If DJ 2 was miffed because DJ 1 "rolled their eyes" when they played the second batch slightly different colour version of a newly released tune.....

I'm glad I stopped looking at the turntables 44 years ago, and so could be blissfully ignorant of what label was being played.

Then again....one-upmanship is a corner stone of Northern Soul collecting, and unlikely to change anytime soon.

Ed

 

But one-upmanship was about playing an exclusive or one of just a few, not one of 300/500 or even a 1000.

11 minutes ago, Chalky said:

But one-upmanship was about playing an exclusive or one of just a few, not one of 300/500 or even a 1000.

Can't see it ever changing.

Common sense was never high up the agenda in TSWONS.

Ed

On 02/05/2022 at 23:57, Happy Feet said:

As you say Chalky , the sound is now unimportant ,the value takes precedence , and if released in 2022 say 300 copies , in 5 yrs time it may be 50 copies , in 10 yrs 25 copies but will there be anyone alive who wants them ? , Most records if reissued have slightly different features on the label  a slightly lower teardrop on the Penrose label for instance , but why don't the companies involved just release more in the 1st place,  why have only 350 or 500 pressed in this day and age , doesn't make sense , and they can't be making a living from these limited releases , the profit is only from resales , I actually contacted the company who released Carmy Love and sent them the discogs page showing it for sale at 120 euros , not interested and definitely no chance of a repress , what do these artists do between releases go busking ?

Maybe just thinking aloud , it's time for these companies to grow a pair and have confidence in the product , maybe this is the cause of so many pre orders so they can gauge the possible sales , I know and you know if advertised as limited , it will sell out even if it's piss poor, and to be honest a lot of great tunes  worth half as much and deemed not worthy with only 1 issue , greed nothing more , as for OVO etc DJing  surely is about entertaining not the same old sounds but 20 times the cost , still new tunes available from the likes of Juno records  ie Oliver James ,One And Only , yellow vinyl for £6.50 + P+P , 

Rarity over quality , surely that's not what the Northern Soul scene was built on ,yes play something new and eventually everybody can get a copy ,if enough issued ,cover ups where apparently to prevent bootlegging , surely we are all entitled to a copy and then hopefully the artists and all involved will be more enthusiastic to make more new exciting tunes , I personally think that cover ups encouraged bootlegging and helped to rip off the artists etc involved , Frank Wilson sold 10k copies as Eddie Foster it's a wonder when finally issued it sold any at the time .

I'm not saying exclusives should be shunned but surely no tune was made for only one pair of ears , and as you say , if demand is there press more it's still the same master and sounds the same , it's the promos of well known tunes reissued for possibly the 5th time that puzzle me .

 

Hello Happy Feet, 

I'm glad you've shown so much interest in the Carmy Love - Thinkin' About You single which we released. As a small independent label and the rising cost of vinyl we have to pay a lot up front to get NEW music recorded in the studio, mixed and mastered as well as upfront costs for paying for vinyl. Carmy Love's single was only our second release on the label so we were only just starting out. 

I'm delighted to say we have three new singles coming from Carmy Love in the next few month. The first one "Together Again" is out now digitally and will be pressed on vinyl with her second single. You'll be really glad to hear, we are repressing "Rebel / Thinkin' About You" and due to receive the delivery in November, we hope this will make the music available to more people and also give us to opportunity to record more new music with Carmy too. 

Keep your eyes on our website over the next month and make sure you sign up to our mailing list to be the first to hear about it - https://www.bigacrecords.com/contact

Big AC Records

6 hours ago, Big Ac Records said:

Hello Happy Feet, 

I'm glad you've shown so much interest in the Carmy Love - Thinkin' About You single which we released. As a small independent label and the rising cost of vinyl we have to pay a lot up front to get NEW music recorded in the studio, mixed and mastered as well as upfront costs for paying for vinyl. Carmy Love's single was only our second release on the label so we were only just starting out. 

I'm delighted to say we have three new singles coming from Carmy Love in the next few month. The first one "Together Again" is out now digitally and will be pressed on vinyl with her second single. You'll be really glad to hear, we are repressing "Rebel / Thinkin' About You" and due to receive the delivery in November, we hope this will make the music available to more people and also give us to opportunity to record more new music with Carmy too. 

Keep your eyes on our website over the next month and make sure you sign up to our mailing list to be the first to hear about it - https://www.bigacrecords.com/contact

Big AC Records

Hi.

I get you have to pay x amount up front but the cost between 500 units and 1000 units is 500 euro, 1 euro per disc.  Now you only have to sell 50 extra to make the money back. In most cases the quality releases are selling out pretty fast and stoking the exploitation of collectors as people who have no interest in the 45s are buying them to sell on as soon as the prices start to rise, bigger pressing runs are obviously needed as the market is there.

Now I know quite a few who have stopped buying limited quantity releases, I have cut back a lot, especially the releases of previously released (on CD) material, I simply cannot afford the amount being released and it was having an impact on my main collecting.

Best of luck with the releases, one I heard the other day is very good and I will check the others out.

On 10/10/2022 at 17:37, Chalky said:

Hi.

I get you have to pay x amount up front but the cost between 500 units and 1000 units is 500 euro, 1 euro per disc.  Now you only have to sell 50 extra to make the money back. In most cases the quality releases are selling out pretty fast and stoking the exploitation of collectors as people who have no interest in the 45s are buying them to sell on as soon as the prices start to rise, bigger pressing runs are obviously needed as the market is there.

Now I know quite a few who have stopped buying limited quantity releases, I have cut back a lot, especially the releases of previously released (on CD) material, I simply cannot afford the amount being released and it was having an impact on my main collecting.

Best of luck with the releases, one I heard the other day is very good and I will check the others out.

Hi Chalky

 the cheapest we are paying seems to be closer to £1.50, plus shipping (and in reality for most small labels plus 8 1/2 % of Published dealer price for mechanical royalties paid on pressing not sales.)

And in fact, most pressings that are higher than 500 units are not selling out, and very few releases sell over a 1000 in a short period of time.

Dean

 

 

 

 

14 hours ago, Dean Rudland said:

Hi Chalky

 the cheapest we are paying seems to be closer to £1.50, plus shipping (and in reality for most small labels plus 8 1/2 % of Published dealer price for mechanical royalties paid on pressing not sales.)

And in fact, most pressings that are higher than 500 units are not selling out, and very few releases sell over a 1000 in a short period of time.

Dean

 

 

 

 

Hi Dean

The price I took from GZ website, didn't look in to it in detail.  I realise there are mechanical royalties on top but 500 seems a compromise rather than 300 many are doing as they seem to sell pretty quickly if the quality is there.

Edited October 13, 20222 yr by Chalky