Rick Cooper

Rod If it looks like a boot and sounds like a boot it is a boot, simples. The point I was making about dead wax is that originals could have different letters or numbers but eveything else should be right. Rick

I don't have a copy of Moses Smith anymore but thought the following background info may be of interest to those who think it matters. Some of this maybe common knowledge or repeat stuff I've posted before. When I was working at Global Records from 72 to 76 we placed orders with Jamie/Guyden or to be precise their distribution company, Chips Distibutors at 2750 North Broad St, Philadelphia.They stocked a few oldies that sold well, mainly Duanne Eddy and the Showstoppers. Global had a warehouse a few blocks away so Ed Balbier ( Global's owner) would pick the orders up on his monthly buying trips. One time , mid 72 I think, he came back with a 100 copies of Moses Smith as the guy at Chips told him some UK buyer had bought some. The record wasn't that big at the time so the copies were offered to dealers, but not many knew it. I don't remember getting anymore after the initial lot had sold. These were definately originals as they came from the label owners and were not styrene re-issues. I don't who else bought them from Chips but it was probably Soul Bowl. They would have bought quite a lot if they could so there must have been quite a few around. As the record became a big oldie in later years Jamie/Guyden could have re-pressed some using the original masters and labels. It seems unlikely that anyone would have done a look a like boot in the 70s as Jamie would be willing to press some and it would be a bit risky to boot a Jamie title. You could end up swimming with the fishes. At that time Global had a list from Jamie/Guyden of all the labels they owned. These included Arctic, Dionn, Vent, Phil LA of Soul. They would have some in stock still such as the Ethics and Showstoppers plus pop hits but any other title could be ordered in a minimum of 1000 copies. I should have tried ordering a few of everything just to see what was on the shelves. I don't recall Jamie stuff turning up as drilled deletions by the thousands so I think unsold stock tended to be kept. This was probably the case with the Moses Smith copies. There were two or three Barbara Lynn Jamie records that were big in Holland so Global had these re-pressed. They were on styrene (I think) and the label was that used for Duanne Eddy hits but were the same record numbers. As for the lettering in the dead wax maybe some people get a bit worked up about this. From my experience of getting records pressed in the UK for Global's Cream label the marks on the dead wax aren't anything sinister. I don't know if eveyone knows how records were made but its roughly this; From the tape a master is cut on a cutting lathe. This is skilled and expensive and some engineers would put their name or initials on the master as well as the matrix number. Anyone remember '' Porkys Prime Cuts'' on UK Virgin. A ''mother '' was then made from the master, followed by a set of stampers to press the records The stampers would have to be identified on the dead wax as they wore out after about 4 or 5 thousand copies. New stampers could be made from the mother for more copies and would have to have a different number or letter. The first stampers for the Moses Smith would probably have done the demos and a couple of thousand stock copies. The next stampers would them have done the next batch. So having different lettering on a record doesn't always mean its a boot. The labels for Cream issues were done first as sheets of Logo only on coloured paper and then overprinted and cut out for each release. The logo sheets were done in bulk and the finished labels would be done in about double what was needed as it was so cheap and if a record took off you couldn't spare the time for re-printing. I'm sure the same was done in the US. A bootlegger might not get the colour right so off colour labels may indicate something not right. A speeded up Moses Smith sounds strange to me . It couldn't be done from the master so if it definately is faster it's propably a boot, unless a Jamie reissue was done from a new master and the engineer thought it sounded better a little faster. But in the end who knows. Rick

I remember getting an original demo of Jerry Williams in the early 70s (1972 or 73) from Simon Soussan with a note saying I must have it as it was going to be the BIGGEST northern soul record of all time(this may be a slight exageration but not much). I had ordered and paid for a different record but that is how Soussan worked . In a similiar way to Jerry Williams I think Al Wilsons '' Now I Know What Love Is'' has an extra bar on the break on the US Soul City issue compared to the UK Liberty issue, or could be t'other way round. Anyone confirm this or know why (Mr Rounce?)

The UK pressing of the Mitty Collier record was done in the mid 1970s by Global Records as a custom order of 1000 copies for Millies Records in Amsterdam as it was a big record there. Another M Collier title ''Share What You Got'' was also done at the same time. A few copies of each title (about 10 or 12 ) were sold by Derek Howe at HMV in Manchester. I suppose some copies have probably come back here from the Netherlands but they must be quite hard to find now. Rick

Rob Thanks for the info on Butch Baker. I suppose stock copies of ''Batman at the Go Go'' should be non exsistant unless a few slipped through. White DJ copies of ''Fatman'' also seem to be rare. Anyone put a scan up? Rick

Rob Sorry I can't help with your search for SL 1018, but maybe you could help with my question about another St Lawrence release. Whats the story on the Butch Baker ''Batman /Fatman'' record? I had Batman on SL demo but think people said it had to be withdrawn due to legal objections and was immediately reissued on the next number as Fatman at the Go Go, although they both sound identical to me. Rick

OK you've all got some nice stuff so you can put them away now. No one had a reply to my question so can I ask again what the promo for James Fountain ''Seven Day Lover'' was? Is there one, white or red. Maybe some one could check in Manships book for me. Those who can work that facebook thingy might see if William Bell is on and ask him. Rick

Marjorie Black is one of my all time favourites but I have never got past the first few lines untill it all sounds weird. I think the producers -Bateman/Moseley- got her to slur the words as a way of getting over the emotion of the song. She sings the words on the B side clearly enough. I always thought Johnny Jones sang ''scuse me while I kiss this guy'' on Purple Haze but this should be '' Scuse me while I kiss the sky'' which makes even less sense. As it's a Jimi Hendrix song it may make sense if youre tripping. Rick Cooper

Peachtree Records had some white demos on the green label but what was the promo for ''Seven Day Lover''. Was it white or just the red label with DJ printed on or felt pen cross? Anyone seen one? Rick

At Global Records I ordered the Bit's n' Pieces and Brothers Sisters Cousins titles from Nasco when Ian Levine was playing them. The ones we got were the original coloured labels. I'm not sure how many we got but at least 600 to 800 of each. As they didn't sell out for a while I never re-ordered. The re-press copies probably were done when Wigan played it and Nasco knew the copies were destined for the UK so didn't bother with a more expensive colour label. Incidently it was possible to bulk order from the record labels quite a few early 70s indie records in 75-77 that Levine was playing as rarish records. Some I remember are Oscar Perrys on perri-tone, Danny Reed, Tradewinds, Carstairs and titles from Gooda-Mooga in Paris. Rick

Richard' Yes that's the one, thanks Rick

Richard, About the same time as ''My Mechanical Man'' was causing a faint ripple (73-75) there was another record on Magic City I remember as being quite good. I think it was credited to someone+ Chocker Campell and was the number after ''MMM'. It had one unique feature in that it was a Christmas record. The words were not too soulfull but I think the track was not bad I played it once or twice at Leeds Central around Xmas. Any idea what it is and could anyone put a scan up. Cheers Rick

Hi Richard The Duke Browner boots were on a darker red label, the lettering was smaller, the record thinner and the sound quality not too great. Global had quite a few original copies so why the boots were so bad I don't know. The Ed Crook was a yellow label which I don't remember having stars. Cheers Rick

I have only just read this posting so sorry for coming in a bit late. The Leah Dawson boots were done by Global Records in Manchester when I was working there in 73. The owner of Global Ed Balbier would for some strange reason boot titles that were never going to sell. He was possibly told by someone in the US that it was a big title in the UK. Most likely it would have been John LaMonte at House of Sounds near Philly as the quality of the pressings were really bad like the other stuff they did. Maybe Selecta-Disc didn't want them . When the Leah Dawson arrived all the likely shops would be phoned up to get orders. The price to them would be around 75 pence but within a month or two the price would drop as shops hadn't re-ordered. I remember the records as being very thin and loads of them being warped. Balbier never asked me what to boot and didn't say what was due in. He didn't trust anyone to advise him but then got screwed with these no hopers. Other Global boots were Ed Crook -That's Allright Lovettes - Little Miss Soul Duke Browner-Crying Over You (sold quite well but lots of faulty returns) Arctic Titles, but these were Jamie/Guyden re issues Rick Cooper

I suppose this is going to be the start of another media blitz around northern as these films are going to be promoted and journalists have to to do a write up. As in the past many mistakes and generalisations will distort the truth but we will have to learn to live with this. One of the constant facts that is always reported is that northern soul records were all failures. Paolo Hewitt picks on the Shrine ,Carnival and Topper labels as examples of labels that ''died on the vine''.Yet all these labels especially Carnival had many local hits and a few national chart records. This constant belittling of black american record labels of the 60's is so entrenched that it is accepted as gospel. Part of the fault for this is down to the usual experts who get interviewed write books and CD sleeve notes and want to appear as saviours for a bunch of '' failures''. Maybe it's time to give the music and artists more credit and stop calling them all failures when in reality from 63 to 68 Soul music was massive and hugely succesful. Rick.

About 15 US copies of Shane Martin turned up in a parcel of singles at Global records in the early 70s. I'd never heard it or played it so it went on the ''pop''listing sent out to dealers. Within a day Pep from Wolverhampton had ordered 10 copies. This rang alarm bells as Pep only ordered soul singles. I don't think Pep got any , well not at 22p. So Pep may have discovered it or someone in the W Midlands knew it. If Levine had played it first I probably would have known it , although Levine had records in his DJ box that he never played. UK issue collectors such as Dave Stubbs may have known of the CBS tracks before any DJs played them. Rick

I definately could not be said to have discovered Tony Galla just because I owned a copy in 73. I'm sure someone must have argued before that ''discovering'' a record means getting it heard or talked about. For Tony Galla I thought Keb was supposed to have been responsible (or guilty). I don't know if it's been mentioned before that Tony Galla was a big record in the Baltimore/Pitsburgh area in the late 60s, can anyone confirrm this. Going back a step how about giving credit for discovering records to some of the record labels owners/employees from the 1960s and early 70s who issued US records that had not been chart hits.Labels such as Sue ,Action ,Pama ,President ,Track ,Beacon, Soul City all have some big early records to their credit. Also employess at EMI, Decca and Pye who managed to get loads of great stuff issued. Names such as Trevor Churchill, John Abbey and Dave Godin deserve a mention. Rick Cooper

I found a copy of TG around 73 or 74 at Global Records when I worked there. It was on a yellow Swan label. Global also had the studio tapes for it. I thought it was rubbish so stuck it in my reject box. Sold it as a job lot to someone for peanuts. Still think its rubbish, sorry. Rick Cooper

When I was living in Leeds in 71 to 73 I used to bunk off college on Thursday morning to go to Bostock's Bradford stall. Arriving early I'd wait for Paul, Ma and Pa to open up. They would bring a couple of 100 count boxes of singles each to top up the racks. These could be bulk of the MGM/Verve stuff or even better, boxes of mixed one -offs. Some of the finds I remember were ''Gallop''-Milton Wright, ''Mighty Good Way''- Robert Banks, ''Cop a Groove inst'' Bobby Wells, ''Unsatisfied'' Lou Johnson, 3 or 4 Billy Butlers on Okeh, ''You Hit Me''- Alice Clark . I think they advertised the bulk titles in Black Echoes when they realised that people (thats you Julian B and Ian D) were buying from them and re-selling at quite a profit . In 74 or 75 when I was working at Global I got to go to their warehouses. In one they had boxes of stuff that had been out on the stalls and not sold, so not much worth buying but I found a Marie Knight Musicor demo. The other place, which I think was like a row of garages, had the bulk titles which they sold us at a few pence each for use in Global's soul packs. Paul Bostock had a shop in Manchester in the late 70s mainly selling LPs, but still loads of Kim Westons and Spyder Turners. Anyone remember what sort of labels never turned up. I can't recall any Motown, Chess, Atlantic , small West coast labels or Ric-Tic/GW . Rick Cooper

As Neil rightly says the Four Perfections record was owned by Irving Weinroth and the instrumental version never came out on ''Partytime''. I had it done for the Cream release at the Grand Prix studio in Philadelphia in 1976 ish. I left Global/Cream records due to a bust up with Global's owner ,Ed Balbier, just before I could get the record pressed. Some time later Global got round to pressing it but didn't promote it and I only found out years later that it had been issued. Neil issued the vocal and instrumental on Inferno as there was still a demand for it. The missing tape probably got lost when Global shut down and the original studio tape may have been left at Grand Prix. As backing tracks go I think it grooves along quite nicely and may feature some of Phillys top session men but I never thought to ask Irving at the time. In those days I don't remember anybody caring too much about who played on records. Rick Cooper

Although working 10 years after the mid 60's my experience of issuing singles at Global records in Manchester probably follows small labels in the US. The records (James Fountain, Johnny Jones.4 Perfections and others) were leased from the label owners so there was no recording costs but we had to pay an advance against future sales. The label designer had to be paid and sheets of logo only blanks printed up , many thousands, as it was not cost effective just doing a short print run. This cost seems to have been too much for some US labels as many are stock designs. The master tape was sent to the pressing plant (I think it was Lintone or something like that, in London). A master pressing stamper was then made (mother) this was used to make the metal stampers that made the discs. These would wear out after a few thousand copies and then new ones were made from the mother. I don't remember the exact figures but the cost of mastering was a considerable one. We then received 3 test pressings to check the sound quality and then the pressing plant would compete the run. I think the initial order for '7 Day Lover' was 5000 but others were 1 or 2 thousand. Probably 1000 was the minimum order but even selling 1000 would not recoup the initial costs. If the initial run was selling well a second order of the same or more would be ordered , this could take a week or so to get done. It didn't make sense to order less than 500 when a record could die in a week. We also were sending records out to radio stations and DJs. Like small US labels we were trying to interst the major labels in distributing the label, with no success. Global records had no interest in the artists so selling records was the only way to make any money. This seems to be the same for most US labels who could'nt care less about the artists, not even telling them if the record was issued. The artists were expected to make money from personall appearances. A record would need to sell tens of thousands before royalties became due as costs were charged against sales. John Broven's recent book about indie labels gives a detailed explanation of this. A hit record would allow the artist to charge more for a show. Anyway the initial pressing would probably be about 3000 as a lot of selling in the US was sale or return also distibutors expected free records and radio stations might get a box or two. If the record started to sell the company might not get paid for months . This probably sent many labels to the wall and leading to another northern rarity. All this only applies to companies hoping to make money from selling records . The self contained group who cut a record to sell at gigs or try to get a deal only needed a couple of hundred and would not expect to cover the costs. There unsold stock could be stuck in a cellar somewhere or trashed years ago, who knows? The walk in record booth is the subject of Ben E King's ''The Record'' on Atlantic. To get back to the original subject , the records that will probably never turn up are those that had to be withdrawn. This could due to legal problems, someone dying, getting drafted or being 'asked' by Mr Gordy what career they want to follow. The inital pressing would have to be destroyed but a few might have survived. So the ones that come to mind are Frank Wilson Junior McCants Don Varner on Veep Len Jewel on teri de 2 on Wand (Ivories? and the other one?) but I'm sure other people can name more Rick Cooper

Hi Ian When was in Philly with Ed Balbier (Owner of Global) in74/75 we would go to House of Sounds to pick up LP orders but he said it was a waste of time looking for N soul as John Anderson got everything first. I got 1 copy of Tony and Tyronne as it was the top record of an open box I walked past. Back in the UK I let Curtis play it at Sale Blue Rooms . I then witnessed Levine break the 100 mt record as he sprinted from the bar to the stage to demand to know how Colin had got the record. He thought it was his exclusive and no one was allowed to play his records. The amount of stuff at House of Sounds was truly awesome, and as you say would take weeks to sort through. I had to help Balbier spend all week at Scorpio and American Record Sale searching for bloody Hank Williams , Porter Wagoner, Willie Nelson type C+W LP's. Going back to Bradford Market , Paul Bostock later opened a record shop in Manchester Arndale but sadly died in a car crash. You mentioned hearing me play Mr Big Shot first, but again I think this was a Levine discovery. I got 1 from Global as soon as I knew it as there was a wall of shelving of one-off stuff sorted by artist but never listed or offered for sale. I also found The Coasters and Van Dykes records there , they had probably been there for years. Rick Cooper