Tlscapital

I'd say 40 £ for the Vault issue and 75 £ for a demo or something like that. Minty that is.

No there is no demo of that Big Frank & the Essence on Philips nor on Blue Rock. So no chance of either on vinyl. Maybe a Canadian copy will pop up ! I understand the thing about Blue Rocks copies being covered up with Philips labels if they in between some process to actually sell them on Philips. But the tape numbering under the catalogue number of the Philips is chronological (IWLHSMC 34872), Philips before is (34179) and the one after is (35355). While on Blue Rock the number before is (35245) and after (35248). On Blue Rock it goes between two records that post date Big Frank recording session ! I understand they could have left it in the can a little while before issuing it on Blue Rock and then later on Philips, but that would mean that the gap of release at Philips between those 3 singles was rather long for such a productive major. Still I always tought that the Blue Rock was first also. Not so important anyway. Just...

My Philips is not stuck-on. And the matrix matches the label prefixes for the Philips edition as such: PHW1-.... is it the case for the Blue Rock on the matrix as: YW1-... ? Then those stuck-ons Philips over Blue Rock labels should have the YW1-... matrix, right ?

Ahah ! Another quirky tune indeed ! I never had that Goldmine compilation with those dodgy selections. A friend of mine did put it on a tape for me and how was I disapointed back then. So I always presumed (wrongly maybe) that were made by and for the northern people. And if ever they were not, they could have been left on the shelves for ever more IMHO.

Thanks for that Sebastian, I really appreciate those factual hints. So indeed august 1967 for the Palmer then. Finally it's established (always 1968 in discographies). The fact that the Pameline credit only the Ala-king for the publisher could be for the presumed reasons with the Palmerton deal failing in the process. Then if there's no mention in the Billboard reviews for the Pameline issue, where does it count if it's before or after the Palmer edition ? All the same, it was a Richard "Popcorn" Wilye "independent" release I understood. He needed to make some sale on it. He wanted to HIT it while it was still hot and making the buzz in the region. If he felt that the people at Palmerton were buzzy with other matters, he couldn't afford to let this one die for some executives worries and so must have talked into them and got all the materials to press quickly his first Pameline record. That's how I understand it.

According to Popsike, it's 3 Blue Rock for 5 Philips. IMHO Blue Rock also harder. Even though the Philips issue would be first apparently, the Blue Rock second then. But close in time anyway. What does the Blue Rock matrix read ?

OK Dave, I took RobbK assumption in the Al Green thread (@ 1 time) that Palmer James was then Palmer records founder. Then thats my mistake since that was somehow corrected developing the Al Green(e) topic. I'll edit and correct that right here. Cheers for pin pointing it down.

The yellow Pameline baring the Palmer catalogue number implies that the Palmer was prior. Even if I always have thought the other way around before reading this on here. The pink Pameline copy I have never hold to see what the matrix is made of. Nor have I heard it to listen to the "sound quality" of it. But as suggested by others here, it could be a contemporary boot to the yellow Pameline. So if we can agree that the date on the Palmer is correct (wich I believe it is), it is a 1967 release. Just like the Pameline is 1967. Now the Pameline could be the « stock » issue where the Palmer (promos only) would be the « promo » issue. I believe that the UK Vocalion was actualy released very soon after the USA Vault issue was first released as being an "instant hit" in clubs and radios in the states. The UK Vocalion was issued in march 1968 it is said. So that puts most logically the USA Vault last on the new continent. But as to why were the Mike Terry’s arrangments credit left out for the Vault release, I don't know ? Now about Martin Koppel's Popcorn's Detroit Soul Party notes (wich I don't question the reliability or the sources), it makes me wonder; why would such a group as Vault, Fat Fish, Venus... that kept on for few years would have royalties issues ? While on the other end Palmer records was really not keeping up for long or good there. Tommy Neal Palmer 5024 is the last one baring a date of release. After that they seem to go down and down to eventualy fade into the big sleep (1968 - gap - 1970 ?). So without doubting Martin’s Koppel sources, quoting the notes from "Popcorn's Detroit Soul Party", I’d rather believe that there’s a « mix-up » on the labels from some old brain cell’s source. Like here ; Palmer records would have a « one shot deal » with Richard « Popcorn » Wilye to release Tommy Neal’s latest gig buzz-attraction. It passed through the promotional release (I have never seen a Palmer issue, has anyone ?) but for financial or promotional reasons the deal with Palmer was cancelled and they used the Palmer lacquer, as I understand now, to print the Pameline yellow issues. Then came the big break with the Vault deal. The Vault issues are not that rare really. Vault promo is harder. I live in Belgium and the most I’ve seen is the bootleg on Vocalion, then the UK Vocalion. The Pameline is popping-up a lot from the states. But most copies are worned out. It was a good seller apparently. I had once in my hands the Palmer and I have never seen the pink Pameline but only on the net. I have no idea as to where to place the pink Pameline though. Bootleg ? What’s the matrix showing on that one as stamped, carved… anyone ? Sometimes the second or even third issue are rarer than their predecessor(s) but in this case it makes total sense that it’s the other way around I read. 1) Palmer 2) Pameline (Y) 3) Vault 4) Pameline (P) ??? About Pete Smith complaint about Tommy’s « singing », I don’t relate to it but I do understand him. I had people giving me the very same appreciation on the « shouting & screaming » attitude in there as to where is the « soul » ? when I played it to potential buyer. I loved dit. I like it still and I also understand people with ears like Pete Smith who are allergic to Tommy Neal’s « voice ».

Coming back on this subject to make it clear in my head once and for all; I just saw that the flip side of the Palmer release is a tune named 'tomboy'. Whilst the Pameline and the Vault feature the rather mindless instrumental 'Tee Ta' Is it playing the same thing on the Palmer or are they actually two different tunes ?

This because this is the Canadian release and the Sansu was distributed by the Bell/Amy/Mala group.

Why is the record "laying" on the ceiling ?

I'm not in the known, but 'I belong to you' sounds like a fake thing to me, like made for the Northern scene. With the tapes, licences and so on. It never sounded right to my ears and it has no early 7T's original release. I always assumed that way. Am I wrong or right here ?

And the vocal 'as long as you'll love me' is Eeek ! POP ! While the 'Sidra's theme' is brilliant "soundtrack" type of thing with that Detroit SoundZ. LUVIT

It is his "northern soul" selling pseudo. Picture the credible northern soul DJ announcing: and now Tony Orlando masterpiece... !

Sh-boom, sh-boom, sh-boom... life could be a dream; https://www.mixcloud.com/Cloudfunk/timmy-soul-presents-u-wanna-face-the-thruth-butt-you-cant-handle-the-book/ Marie Knight — that’s no way to treat a girl the O’Jays — hold on Johnny Taylor — blues in the night (a (wo)man is two faced) Harvey — any way you wanta Bobby Freeman — lies the Leaders — wich way the Dramatics — watcha see is watcha get the Brothers of Soul — come on back the Isley Brothers — it’s out of the question Gayl Eason — love’s gonna find you the Essex IV — my reaction to you Marvin Gaye — this old starved of mine is killing me the Steinways — you’ve been leading me on Clyde Brooks — soul set (instrumental) Dee Dee sharp — touch my life Billy Butler — thank you baby Roscoe Robinson — don’t pretend Serena Johnson — all work and no play Buddy Lamp — just a little bit of loving Jimmy Hughes — my loving time the Mad Lads — what love will make you tend to do Bobby Bland — how does a cheating woman feel Buddy Miles - pain

Here t'is:

Crate dig ! Always the best anywhere you are or go !

No, only one left foot on an acetate of Bob Dylan in the loo "easing down" and the right foot on a Beatles acetate where you hear Phil Spector leaving the studio moaning "what the hell am I gonna do with that ?"

Oh ! And they are supposed to reprazent FRIED BANANAS !

No, I'm just not bothered with after listening to it. Rare, yes, it seems. But not one I'm going to be on the look out for. And if it falls into my hands, I'm not going to keep it.

London, Jamaica

Yep: @ 400 ! But, it is a corner stone piece of music so hard or impossible IMHO to value money wise. I'd settle for a Palmer otherwise

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