Roburt

RE: While playing drums for Edwin Starr during a performance at the Apollo Theatre in New York one night, When would that have been, the late 60's / early 70's ??

The Bushwick Theatre in Brooklyn back in the day. It was closed (as a theatre / cinema) at the end of the 60's and then used as a church. The building then fell into misuse but still exists today in a slightly changed form (as a school). Bet it would have been a good place to see a 1960's soul package at.

Been mentioning a few 'neglected' Brooklyn soul venues on the thread about THE SHELLS .... but opening it up as a separate topic to allow more places to be discussed. Loads of big theatres in Brooklyn back then that had live soul shows on at times. The Brevoort Theatre seated 2300 & admitted a 'standing only' crowd as well when sold out. As the packages featured at the theatre usually stayed a week back in the early / mid 60's, then with 3 shows a night midweek & 4 a night on weekends, around 50,000 people would attend the most popular of the live shows ..... and the only advertising they did was to post up handbills on lam posts around the borough plus get radio DJ's to mention who was on. Other theatres there included the Fox, Paramount & Bushwick (pictures of some up on the SHELLS thread). But there were also lots of bars & clubs that also had live acts on. The Riverland Lounge located on the corner of Brevoort Place and Bedford (right across the street from the Brevoort Theatre) had live shows ... PLUS .... the 521 Club (1134 Fulton St) not only featured live acts but ran it's own record label !!! I'm told that there were also bars / lounges in the mid section of Fulton St, (between Franklin & Bedford). Another bar and lounge that was located on the corner of Spencer and Fulton (again this was situated between Franklin & Bedford). There was also a big bar on the corner of Bedford and Fulton, but the names of them all seem to be lost in the sands of time. Those Brooklyn based 'Dig Deeper' boys certainly have a legacy to live to. Anyone know of any more good live venues (or record label bases) in the area back then ??

A few more UK test pressing albums ........ ......Seems that there are loads of UK Decca Records test LP's(London / Brunswick stuff & the like) to chase ... ......... and they appeared in 4 different colour variations.

Another act for whom the Brevoort Theatre figured large (in their early years) was Patti Labelle & the Bluebelles ..... “I Sold My Heart to the Junkman” was performed by Patti La Belle & the Bluebelles on their 1st nationally telecast TV show 'American Bandstand' in June 1962. After the group lip-synched The Starlets’ version of “Junkman” on live TV, they became known as the faces and names behind the song. But suits were immediately filed against the group and their record label by Chicago's Starlets (the actual singers on the track), so Patti’s group had to shoot into the studio to record their 'cover' of “Junkman.” After the Bandstand performance “I Sold My Heart to the Junkman” became a Top 20 hit and the Bluebelles' ticket to the 'chitlin’ circuit' theatres. The group made its stage debut at the Brevoort Theater in Brooklyn, eventually moving up to perform at the Apollo in Harlem plus the Royal (Baltimore), Howard (DC) & Uptown (Philadelphia). Sometime later, Patti & the group were on once again on at the Brevoort, this time Jackie Wilson was topping the bill. Just before the show, Jackie & one of his friends caught Patti (18 years old) as she was heading from her dressing room in the direction of the stage. They took her off to a quiet part of the theatre's backstage area. Here, the two men set about trying to rape her (according to Patti's account of the incident at least). She screamed so loud, as they tried to overpower her, that they had to let her go and she escaped to the rescuing arms of the other ladies in her group.

Seems that there were numerous theatres around New York that hosted live R&B shows in the late 50's & through the 1960's. We only ever seem to get info on the Apollo and although that was a major soul venue throughout the 60's / 70's, it's shadow seems to put all the other venues totally in the shade. Coz of this , it is hard to track down a lot of info on the other places that staged decent live shows. For instance, most of the big Murray the K live presentations in New York were hosted at the Fox Theatre in Brooklyn. So all the top acts in 1962/63/64, etc appeared there ... that included many of the Brit invasion groups + the Motown acts & other soul outfits. As well as the Fox, the Paramount, Brevoort & the Bushwick Theatres also staged numerous live shows. The Brevoort even had room for a bigger audience than the Apollo (2300 seated + some standing). It sold out shows even though they would last 7 days and would be on 3 times on weekdays & 4 times on weekends (with a midnight show being added. So, if a presentation at the Brevoort was really popular (the Motown Revue for instance), then around 50,000 people would get in to see it over it's week long run .... not a bad turn out at all ............ ...... BUT even though these shows were major events that attracted many 1000's of soul fans, little seems to have been documented about them.

The rejuvenation of the Shells even resulted in them enjoying releases overseas (in the UK for instance) ....... They enjoyed about 4 'extra releases' due to the reactivation of their old 1957 single ..... ..... seems they never really gave up on their doo-wop style though .... I wonder what would have happened to them if they had changed over to more of a 1962 'Drifters style' sound.

The story behind the reissue of the Shells (& other) 45's in 1960 ....

I'm chasing down (if poss) the date of a big show staged at the 2300 capacity Brevoort Theatre in Brooklyn in 1961 or 1962. To assist me in my task, I plucked out the name of one of the 'lesser' acts on that bill to search the web for info. Came up with quite a bit of info on this group, Brooklyn based doo-wop outfit, the Shells. This (what later became) R&B vocal group was formed in 1956. They were noted for their typical New York doo-wop stylings. The group cut their first record, "Baby Oh Baby", in 1957 and this did OK on its release on the local Johnson label. The Shells broke up, but the following year, lead Nathaniel ‘Little Nate’ Bouknight formed a new ensemble, bringing in Bobby Nurse (first tenor), Shade Randy Alston (second tenor), Gus Geter (baritone), and Danny Small (bass). Subsequent records did nothing. Then in 1960, with the help of Time Square based record shop owner Irving Rose, the 45 was re-released. "Baby Oh Baby" in 1960 made it as a Top 20 hit on the national pop charts (it went to number 11 on Cash Box’s R&B chart). The group re-formed and they started cutting some new sides. Two are now viewed as being excellent ones, both featuring new lead Ray Jones -- "Happy Holiday" (1962) and "Deep In My Heart" (1962). However, these later Shells cuts failed to reach the charts and they again broke up. In 1966, the group came back together for one last a cappella session using the four remaining members, without a lead. However, after "Baby Oh Baby" had made the charts, the group toured for almost two years on the back of the track. The reissued 45 escaped in late September 1960 and was on the charts by December. The group 'hit the road' in April 1961 and kept going through till around early 1963. I'm after info on when their gig at the Brooklyn theatre would have taken place. It must have been sometime between May 61 and about July 62 I would say. Anyone know much about the group & it's activities back then (a doo-wop fan such as Robb maybe).

Bettye just sang "Let Me Down Easy" ...... WOW, she's still got it at her age !!!

Jools Holland's NY's Eve TV show has just started and he's introduced Bettye LaVette & Bobby Womack who are in the studio. Don't know if they will both be singing or just chatting but guess they will both sing something.

I'd guess the same thing Steve. Mind you, if I'd been working for a record label and a few test pressings had crossed my desk, there's no way that they would have been thrown away.

When "Agent OO Soul" hit from day one of it's release ..... Edwin had to instantly get himself a backing band & start to play gigs .... ... so he went straight back to Cleveland and recruited some guys he knew from the Futuretones days. Here's the guys he got to back him ..... from left to right in the picture: Victor Stubblefield (trumpet; Cleveland), Tyrone Hite (drums), Anthony Hawkins (guitar), V.C. Veasey (bass) and Gus Hawkins (sax: Cleveland). This outfit backed Edwin during his Ric-Tic period (before the pair got homesick & heading back to Cleveland). Edwin's big hit was of course "AGENT OO SOUL", I've no idea how he came up with the name the SOUL AGENTS for the band !!!

Not long now till the 'Spyder'man hits these shores ............

CHEERS ...... so it seems that there must be copies of Test Pressing LP's of many UK London / Brunswick label albums out there.

Thought I would post up a thread to compliment the existing ACETATES thread ........... While we see many acetates / promo 45's / Disc Jockey 45's / 12" & LP white labels ..... ... I don't recall seeing album test pressings from too many UK / US labels (apart from white label copies that is). I'd be interested to see more LP test pressings such as those I've put on here .......... (Columbia one poor quality as I had to take a photo of it as scanner is kaput at present) .... Main label scan is taken from a 60's London LP (orig US album it is a version of being sourced from Hi).

Yep, they have lots of snow as well. But if it snows all night, the roads / footpaths will be useable by 9am (not like here).

Thanks for the tip. Just bought a copy from Amazon with my daughter's Xmas pressie gift voucher.

Think she's part of the big soul package that David Guest is putting on in Liverpool soon. Probably over here for the 'Guest Show' & has taken the opportunity of any booking. Last time I saw her, her voice wasn't in good shape but that may have been a health / UK climate problem at that time.

Mr. Fine Wine = S.Source member Weingarden His soul nite >>> Botanica, Wednesdays, NYC

Mr Fine Wine (he's on here I believe under his real surname I believe) always used to run a weekly soul nite down on West Houston (lower Manhattan) but don't know if it's still going. There's the soul nites in Brooklyn (live acts on) held every month or so (Dig Deeper ... they have a web site / Facebook page that you can check. The 'On Broadway' Motown musical may be doing 'pre-opening rehearsal' nights that the public can attend when you're there. B B King's Blues Club has soul acts on (its just around the corner from Time Square), check out their web site. Vinyl wise its a bit hit & miss ...... lots of NY based soul 45 buyers do all the usual places ... so you may find sumat these days but probably not. Loads of great restuarants but its been a while since I was a regular visitor to the city, so I'm out of touch. ONE TIP ......... catch the ferry across to Hoboken (just across the river to NU JURSAAAY). 2 locations to catch it, near mid town in West Manhattan (close to the aircraft carrier that's now a museum) & down by Battery Park (lower Manhattan). Hoboken is where Sinatra was born & where 'On The Waterfront' was filmed. The old docks are long gone & its now a residential area. Has a great 'village-y' feel & yet is only 5 minutes (on bus / ferry / subway if now running again). Main street is called Washington (100 yds off waterfront) & used to have a good record shop (may still) plus quite a few good eateries & a decent live music venue (can't remember the name but its just round the corner from where Greg Tormo lives and the likes of Betty Lavette play gigs there). Hope this helps.

Gospel groups / singers would tour all over the US playing gigs in local black churches. They would be 'paid' for these shows and usually 'put up' / fed in the homes of members of each church's congregation in turn. It was only the big gospel acts that played 'proper halls' / theatres, all the rest played most of their gigs in churches. Weird thing was (from my point of view), the male singers had many fanatical fans and even attracted a 'groupie following'. So they would leave a trail of babies behind them, hardly very church like.

A high proportion of non main label gospel cuts were vanity recordings. The group / singer would perform week in week out on the 'church circuit' and lots of times their manager / leader would arrange to go into a studio to allow them to cut a 45 / LP for them to sell at their gigs. Many were made at the same studios and released on the same labels (the studios house label; Designer, Champ, Rae Cox, Crown Ltd, Sound of Birmingham, Bright Star, Boddies labels out of Cleveland, etc). We've had a few threads on here about said studios / labels / records. Many are great and a few have been played on the soul scene.

Bob, Are internal US rates increasing by a similar % ....... ...my son has just bought a place in Florida & seems I'll be spending much of every winter there in future. So can take advantage of US rates for P&P plus buy stuff (books, CD's) from US Amazon (always cheaper for US sourced stuff than buying from same people via UK Amazon).

The yellow label 45's were NS, the red were MS ..... I bought a copy of all the MS 45's (red label) and loved em all. Left quite a few of the yellow Grapevines (even when I could get em for 10p or 25p) coz I wasn't into Wigan stompers or Casino instros.