Sunnysoul

Thanks Tone, you saved me some extra work on the keys ! As I said before, what Amy does is really nice, I genuinely like her music, the only thing is, it's just not soul music ! Amy is no more "soul" than Paul Weller or Paul Young or Jo Boxers or the Untouchables ! In other words, Amy is pop music pure and simple, nothing more, nothing less. But Sharon Jones is soul, not necessarily because of the colour of her skin, but because Sharon has "paid her dues" , she has actually lived soul music and soul culture !!! I'm afraid what people really need to realise is that Soul Music - for all intents and purposes - is now a defunct music form. As a living, breathing music form - it is dead. In the same way that Blues and Jazz as living musical forms died too. Soul Music has in fact effectively been dead since the mid 80's. Of course, it didn't suddenly die on one particular day but it was brought about due to a combination of social, cultural, economic and musical (industry) factors in the US over a period of years leading into the 80's. If you want to read about the demise of Soul Music, I recommend that you all read US music journo Nelson George's excellent book entitled "The Death of Rhythm and Blues". He actually wrote that book back in the 80's and, for example, lamented the fact that multinationals like CBS were failing to appreciate their own hit making artists like Johnny Taylor and Tyrone Davis and going for the easy dollar. The book details all the factors that led to the death of Soul Music and Soul Culture. Of course Soul Music is not completely dead however, the Soul Music torch has been carried on to a diminishing degree in small pockets of the US since the 80's by elder statesmen such as Bobby Womack and the late Johnny Taylor as well as the kind of artists that Sean Hampsey referred to in his earlier post, and also artists of the genre that we all used to refer to as "Real Soul" or "Indie Soul" artists through the 80's & 90's. But Amy Winehouse ? Or tracks like "Tribute To Betty" ? Or what people constantly have constantly referred to for 20 years as "soulful house" ??? Please !!! Just because a black girl wails over a dirge like 120 bpm computerised beat without chord changes does not make it soul ... or even soulful ! As I say , I am not in any way dismissing Amy Winehouse or house music as good music, they are worthwhile ... just don't confuse them with Soul Music ! When people ask what is Soul Music, I usually recommend that they read Barney Hoskin's excellent book "Say It One More Time For The Broken Hearted". Barney perfectly encapsulates the various factors that led to the genesis of Soul Music. What is really sad though is when people bandy the word "soul" about for every two bit pop artist as if the word "soul" is some worn out football to be kicked against the wall a million times. Or when people use the old stereotypical references - as Tony referred to above - like, is it about being "black or white" or, is soul just a "feeling" .... Soul Music is in fact actually all about specific time, people and places. It is about Motown and Memphis and Chicago and Philly ... it is about the Masqueraders and the Precisions and Bill Brandon and Betty Harris .. it is about Jerry Ragavoy and Van McCoy and Allen Toussaint and Gamble and Huff ... it is about James Jamerson and Bobby Eli and James Gadson ... and Hitsville and Fame and Muscle Shoals. And it is everything else and in between everything that we here on Soul Source for the most part enthusiastically rave about as if it was a life long love affair.

Well done Sean for bringing some sanity to the discussion. I really like what Amy Winehouse does, but what people need to realise is that it's not soul music. She is a very good commercial pop artiste in the same fashion as Kylie Minogue or Madonna. But to mention her in the same breath as Etta James As Sean says, there are others artists who are the real deal who deserve far more attention on these pages ! You want real Soul music? Check out that Sam Dees clip on the other thread !

I'm bored !!!

Does anyone know whether Sam performs live in the States these days ?

For God's sake, someone get Sam out to tour and perform live !!!!!!

Probably because the population of Australia in the 60's was less than 10 million , that is, less than half what it is now, the music scene was absolutely tiny compared to even the small European countries like Holland and Belgium and the pressing runs of records were so small as to be almost negligible , all the evidence points to a couple of hundred at most (if that) of items like the Sapphires "Gonna Be A Big Thing " on Ampar or the Metros "Since I Found My Baby" on RCA or Patrick Bradley on Ampar or the Jackie Day EP on W & G. The Gloria Scott 45 on Casablanca remains ridiculously tough, and then you have perhaps the biggest prize of all , Billy Wood's "Let Me Make You Happy" on Aussie A & M ....

Thanks Paul, like fellow "Aussie" Pete Fowler in Perth (WA, not Scotland !), we here in god's home at the other end of the world (Sydney) really feel for you all in the UK as we are enjoying our Soul X Mas with outdoor BBQ's, ice cold lager, and 30 degree celsius (80+ centigrade) heat on Bondi Beach and the whole Sam Dees catalogue on the I-Pod !

Yeah, Pete, Aussie London 45 has that coupling. And Doris Willingham is indeed utterly brilliant and a bargain , Doris Duke of course !

Words simply can't describe how magnificent this man and his music is ... The ultimate gift to every Soul Source member and soul fan wherever they might be ... Enjoy ... https://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/searc...a-million_music

That looks like a re-issue 12" , not an original ?

At least 100 quid for a nice AUSSIE RCA 7 " release !!!!

Hang on a minute , those Belgian Sam Fletchers ARE boots aren't they? Scratched in Delta's (not stamped) with the # dating from early 70's right ?

Yes I have the 12", it was most certainly released in that format, and dare I say it, probably the hardest format too !

huh huh

The Will Chapron record surprisingly has yet to take off, was talked about a few years ago, priced around 300 UK e , but then the price softened a little since then. This is bound to become popular though in time.

The greatest soul singer who ever lived , David Ruffin , was a nasty piece of work by all accounts , but his recorded legacy - his music and art - is no less powerful or valid or pleasurable because of that. And James Trouble is correct, let's stop this brow beating about the artists being rewarded for records that never sold a jot. By all means we should all do what we can , and those like Ady and Kent Records should be applauded for their efforts. But one has always had the feeling that all those people who constantly moan about a few others who have made a little profit out of the soul scene and its artists is just an excuse for their own jealousy and regret that they were neither resourceful nor smart enough to achieve what those others did. Which is why the Levines, Roberts , Manships , Winstanleys and others are constantly demonised by certain sections of the soul scene. When all is said and done, the reality is that no more than a handful of people in the 40 years of the scene have ever made even a little money out of it all. Similarly with the high prices being paid for records. If someone has worked and achieved wealth in life and they want to pay 1000 pounds for a record that otherwise sells for only 200 pounds, then good luck to them ! It's not silly at all ! It's their hard earned cash and they can do what they want with it ! And good luck to them . They certainly don't owe a moral responsibility to other financially struggling collectors to keep prices down !!!!!

This "morality" issue - about the original artists getting paid their dues - has been an ongoing source of debate throughout the history of the northern soul scene. But really, it's such a non-issue. If we could all suddenly wave a magic wand , no doubt we would put millions instantly into the pockets of our soul heroes (after ouselves), but in the real world this is just not possible and such a suggestion is nothing more than an innocent, naive, idealistic whim on our part ... The rare soul scene has done more for the people and the artists who brought us so much pleasure than most other scenes and cultures of any kind in recent history that I can think off. The northern scene has nothing to apologise for ... to anyone.

Brian, In this eternal debate about what is and isn't soul, one of the most interesting things to look at is the Bill Board and Cash Box Soul / RnB Charts from the 60's. Remember, these charts were based on what the BLACK AMERICAN listening and buying public were getting into at the time. Very few WHITE AMERICAN artists , let alone white artists from outside the US , made the Soul Charts from 1964 on. You can bet that if a "pop" record made the soul charts around that time, then black radio DJ's and black listeners were accepting it as bone fide SOUL music. In a sense, this was the ultimate accolade! When Tom Jones' "Its Not Unusual" was first released in the US , it instantly received heavy rotation on black radio stations and it duly shot straight to the upper reaches of the Bill Board soul chart. Their black listeners thought Tom was black !!! So much so that Vee Jay Records immediately rush released a cover version of it by the greatest soul group of all time, the mighty mighty Dells !!! Tom's original won out of course and smashed to the top of pop and soul charts , and the rest, as we say , is history! But note that , as soon as Tom toured the states , and black radio DJ's realised he was white , they dropped it .... As I say, everyone should take time out to look at these soul charts and you'll see why acts such as the Righteous Bros and the Young Rascals had several soul chart entries. These acts had real soul credibilty among black listeners. Even a couple of the Stones' early big hits like "Satisfaction" made the soul charts !!! Spencer Davis Group "I'm A Man" went high on the Soul charts in '67 ... and so on. And the same principle applied in the 70's when the US soul music scene and black culture was reflected by the legendary syndicated TV show "Soul Train". The first white pop artists to appear on Soul Train were David Bowie and shortly after Elton John - Philadelphia Freedom is a fantastic homage to the Philly Sound !!!! Make your own conclusions !

No, Crown Four is better, also has Love For My Girl a great stomper ...

Please someone post a sound clip of the brilliant "Fly To Your Open Arms" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wasn't Artie one of the members of (Johnny Johnson and) the Bandwagon at the time of Breaking Down the Walls of Heartache ?

Here's the full Wand discography. https://solidhitsoul.com/wandlabel3.html As far as Wand 70's sounds are concerned, the monster in waiting is Clara Lewis "Needing You" ... it continues to get overlooked on the northern scene ... even after it's famous appearance on the classic Disco Gold LP in a longer dance mix ... The Clara Lewis record will come to haunt many a collector if they don't grab one now ... the intriguing thing is whether this was ever issued with a different flipside .. I think the discography is erroneous in this regard in that it lists the Clara Lewis record as vocal & instro whereas I'm led to believe that it only exists as vocal only with one side mono & one stereo ... anyone ?

I'm waiting for someone to ask if it's "acceptable" to play the second issue at a gig ...

Mel, here is the Mirwood LP discography link https://www.bsnpubs.com/veejay/mirwood.html Apart from having the Jackie Lee and Olympics I also have the James Bond Song Book LP, very groovy and I play it when I DJ at lounge/soul/psych/mod gigs ... and I used to have the Rubber Soul Jazz LP too which I seem to recall has some crackin' instrumentals which would be perfect for northern soul dancefloors ... [My Motto: I'm always "arsed" to lug LP boxes around the country from venue to venue because it makes me a superior DJ to those who couldn't be arsed ... ]