Modernsoulsucks

Ady,do you have a record of how many copies of each 45 you've shifted so far. It's a bit of a sad indictment of the current scene if you're suggesting that the unreleased stuff which wouldn't be available any other way would not sell 500 copies. In addition to the Tobi Lark I fancy that "Soldier Boy" thing from Money. There's a thread starting about unreleased Pretenders on Carnival too. Think I paid £4.99 or £5.99 for last Kent 45s I bought. Could you hike price to get a lower break-even point. It may be there's more demand for 70's tracks than 60's. Unique Blend/Houston Outlaws springs to mind. Would have thought that would have sold a few. ROD

So Mikey that would have been in mine and Dave's spot, so thank you for that. I don't know where this different speed lark arose. That first cut was taken from a tape done by Tom Depierro's business partner from original tapes/acetates [don't know which really] that they'd listened to but rejected for that first unissued Motown compilation "From the Vaults" I certainly didn't speed it up or slow it down. Wouldn't know how to. A reasonably interesting aside. The guy who pressed the acetates for us, I forget his name, was the producer of that Maisonettes 45 that came out after he'd done the job for us. On that first tape was that instr of "On the avenue" done by Jimmy Ruffin as "In the neighbourhood". If you listen to that Maisonettes it sounds like that track but altered around. ROD

I did notice, Ady that you didn't have any objection to cutting an unissued track from a Kent CD to play out [Additions thread]. I guess it's a bit of promotion for the CD and any extra sales benefits the original owner of the work. I think that's a generous open-minded attitude to take. Might be a bit of a problem if we all decided to do it. With your blessing of course. I bought those Kent 45s that were previously unissued. Any more plans to put others out on vinyl. I'd like that Tobi Lark "True true love" please. End of Jan would be fine as Xmas will be paid for by then. ROD

I just read in the Guardian that it's reckoned downloading will see CDs obsolete within 5 years. Are current CDs all legit?. Thought there was some doubt about that. CDs are glorified cassettes anyway and 6T's NS is vinyl based. I wouldn't buy a boot but have no objection to those who do. I know royalties etc argument but as Netspeaky says that also applies to the sale of originals too. Money is all in our pockets. I blame the record labels and licensees. Take that Motown unissued stuff. If it's OK to supply certain DJ's with advance releases then why do the rest of us have to settle for a CD. I've bought the vast majority of them but I'd really like some tracks on vinyl, including that booted Monitors. Unfortunately it looks cheap and nasty. Maybe Universal should be thinking more about their target audience and less about cheapest format to maximise profit, or better still give me the f..king job. I do have a little experience in that I found that first batch and got them heard and talked about back in the 80's.!!! Dealing with the owners of the original material is a nightmare in my experience. I got Gino Washington to re-issue that "Rat Race". I asked him to put this good unissued instrumental he had on tape on the b-side and he didn't and then didn't send us all the copies we paid for but sent re-issues of the Tomangoes instead. I doubt if Tomangoes saw any of that money. So let's condemn Amnesia for not taking the legit route but equally those companies that treat their audience with disdain. ROD

Wilxy, try contacting Adam at https://www.soulsupermarket.co.uk/ I got a copy off him for £20 couple of days ago. He had it on set sale £25 Ebay but took my offer. Im pretty sure that wasn't first time he'd listed it so he may have a few. Worth checking anyway. ROD

No Andy you can come to my house and play it but you can't go to Chalky's!!! Do keep up please with current PC thinking. ROD

I deffo don't disagree with your contention that a record is worth what people are prepared to pay but Andy did ask if we considered it a "fair" price. Im also not too sure that all the people buying it are aware it's a re-issue. Just had a look at latest ad and the fact that it's a re-issue is NOT stated. I guess people ought to know what they're buying but Andy for sure isn't and took the time to check. You're quite right to bring up Nike as I think this is exactly the same. Produced for peanuts and sold in a gullible consumer market for must-have items. The artists etc seeing little of the profit I would imagine. Time will tell if it holds it's value but not looking that good so far, from £250 to £75. Luckily value IMO is or shouldn't be what Northern Soul is all about. People who've bought it are happy with it and it gives them pleasure. That's fine. Finally couldn't help noticing you can afford to pay £5k for Margaret Littles. Can you lend me twenty quid till payday? ROD

Does anyone know how much for a mint Andy Fisher on fat fish? And how many are out there........? I think Sean should be barred from the site with his provocative questions designed to sow dissension in the ranks. I think you owe everybody an apology,Sean. I don't know Keith but I've met Carl couple of times and Im sure he wouldn't be as miffed as some of the people on here if someone played a cut of one of his 45s before he could. I guess there'd be a moment's irritation and then he'd play something else instead. ROD

I wondered that too,Pottsy. I thought the Las Vegas source was rather cavalier to put it diplomatically. ROD

I think Bri the correct analogy is that if John Anderson considers his legal re-issues at around £10 to be a fair mark-up when they cost less to make and are also in demand[especially those previously unreleased such as Chesterfields] why is it OK for the Voices 45 to be £75 or whatever. Why didn't John put out that Chesterfields on blue Parkway and charge £100. Because either it's a brilliant marketing ploy that never occured to him or more likely he like most of us assumes that a re-issue is only worth so much. The Voices 45 IMO was the former. Judging from Ebay etc the price is all over the place and why would anyone auction a 45 they'd pressed in quantity other than to maximise profit for the seller and OK the person who I assumed gave him the masters. I wonder if any of the group have seen any money. Probably they were paid on the day of the session. https://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php...p;x=19&y=12 The question about whether it should be played out on that format is a bit of a red herring. Personally I'd rather hear 4 Voices on a boot than N.F. Porter on ABC WDJ with alternative intro and spoken introduction by Winston Churchill. Someone said ""It's what's in the grooves...." which is the music. So I don't care if people want to have and play the 45 on the re-issue but I do feel that they've been taken advantage of. ROD

Thank you Chalky but I think your reply should read "found" and not "pressed". I hope there's no lingering doubt there in that unconscious slip-up. And Mossy it was Dave Withers who got around 100-150 of the Betty Lloyd 45. That guy is a menace to decent collectors everywhere!! ROD

Gotta agree with Sebastian. IMO a ridiculous amount of money for a re-issue. In what way is this re-issue different from those put out by Grapevine or Kent who charge nowhere near that amount. I'd rather buy original 45s. I just got Carltons "Ooh Baby" on M- ARGO DJ for under £7 inc postage off Ebay. Nice record and I could get 10 quality 45s for the £75 I'd have to spend for 4 Voices. I'd love to have the original but will have to wait till I see it at an affordable price to me. ROD

Hey Chalky, in what way were the Danny Moore's different to the real thing. Im sure I've posted this before but they came from a relative, cousin I think. We had the name of the writer/producer, Massingille and when next in Detroit Dave Withers checked the phone book and we got lucky. He had a few at first but turned up more over a few weeks. Had similar luck with John Merlino in phone book and got a few Dynamics "Whenever Im without you". Im sure Dave said that Greg Tommo had got to the guy first but hadn't bought all the copies of Moore 45. Maybe he didn't ask for more. No idea why!! It's no big thing but I wouldn't want anyone to think they were boots that me and Dave had pressed up. Wouldn't even know how to go about it. I think there are boots but don't they look different. I kept a copy for myself and I think it's styrene [same stuff as Maltese or M-S] and has ZTSC97530 1A and ZTSC 97531 1A stamped in run-out groove ROD

So I gather from the smilie that you agree really. Yes I prefer Seashells and Ruby but R.Dean Taylor just reminds me of the Torch when most of the records were not midtempo and it just fitted in. ROD

Trevski, don't want to cause an argument but this "dinosaur" soul thing. R.Dean Taylor is an oldie but as a collector of USA Motown I have a copy and it doesn't really strike me as any different than my other Motown 45s. I noticed your wants recently included Ruby and Seashells. Ruby has been known and played since I guess 1981 [at least on Take 6 as I picked up a copy back then after hearing it somewhere] and Seashells has been around years as well. I have both. So if Stuart had played the three I would have considered all of them to be standard well-known oldies. Im assuming you would have been pleased to hear the two you actually still want. I think it's just that if you've got them to hear whenever you want, then it's onto the next thing. In fact if I didn't get a 45 quite recently then I tend not to play it much if at all cos I've heard it enough. It's all kinda "dinosaur" soul really. IMO it's getting worse cos price of 45s means that I can't get enough new [to my collection] 45s to keep it fresh, if you know what I mean. ROD

Thank you Tony. Dave W. has just picked a copy up over there. He was thinking of keeping it but with that kinda money he could sell it and buy a proper record!! ROD

Does anyone know what that Sharon Mcmahon finished at. ROD

"Have you had a good look at the wife" ROD

Yes they did. Found a lot in a radio station one time. Still have Frances Nero on stock label but "Keep on loving me" both sides. ROD

Well, I couldn't find a Moses Smith boot but on checking feedback I did see a "Living a lie" boot that went for £50. There's a picture of the boot and it's NOT stated as an original. Should he have actually said it was a boot in that ad? IMO yes he should, but any collector can see it is as soon as they go to the ad. Are you saying that the bidders on that 45 were all misled? I bought Eddie Holland on Motown off the guy. It was an original and condition was pretty much as described and Im fussy. In my dealings with him he certainly did not come over as a "shyster". I would agree that regarding the Hesitations it's difficult to tell whether it's an original from the picture. Certainly to me it is, but now he's been made aware that it is a boot he's stated that fact in the ad. I think Givemesoul you're over-reacting. And as for twats like me making it difficult for collectors I think maybe you should ask anybody who has ever bought a 45 from me whether they got anything but a Mintish condition original US 45 at a reasonable price. ROD

Soul Slider, thanks for that. I have got US Kapp WDJ of "You can't bypass love" and styrene with stick on label. I checked Canadian issue "Im not built..." and it's moulded vinyl. Im sure Rubin is styrene stick-on too but Im 54 and too knackered to keep running upstairs to check. Im sure you're right then about USA moulded copy being a boot but I think it shows how hard it is to keep track of shit like that if even a living-legend such as myself can get confused.!! I was mainly trying to point out that my dealings with the seller leads me to think he had no intention to deceive anyone and nobody knows everything for certain,except my wife. ROD

I happen to know the seller who is not a member of this forum. I contacted him. His reply is below. I'VE HAD THE RECORD FOR AGES & TO BE HONEST I HATE IT, THATS WHY IM SELLING IT. I BOUGHT IT AS AN ORIGINAL. I ALWAYS STATE WETHER I KNOW IF ITS AN ORIGINAL LIKE I DID WITH YOUR EDDIE HOLLAND & ALSO THE SHOWMEN IM SELLING. I MAKE IT WELL CLEAR. I WAS NEVER SURE ABOUT THIS ONE, I HAVE HEARD ABOUT THE MOULDED LABLE ORIGINALS THAT YOU ARE ON ABOUT, BUT NEVER SEEN ONE. THATS WHY WHEN I LISTED IT I WASNT GOING TO COMMIT MYSELF SAYING IT WAS AN ORIGINAL, THAT IS WHY I ALWAYS PUT IF IM NOT SURE THEN ITS UP TO THE BUYER TO FIND OUT PRIOR TO BIDDING. NONE OF US EVER STOP LEARNING. IF IVE MADE AN ERROR I APPOLOGISE BUT I HAVNT. THE MATRIX NO IS K-10443-4 Im not sure if it's original either although the seller was informed that the moulded label is a boot. I have a Canadian copy and mine is a moulded label too. I think that is an original. The seller has informed all the bidders that he is totally unsure and is quite happy to ignore bids if people have second thoughts. Maybe someone on here can clear up whether it's a boot or not. I have no idea and usually I know everything!!! ROD

Mark, here's a Xmas message. Get yer arse off the bloody internet. We are coming later. PM'd Clare's mobile # ROD

If we're going to get down to the political,social and economic context in which music we all love has developed, then a thought that has often occured to me that is rather uncomfortable. Without slavery would we have what we've got. All that death, misery and degredation. And who is fit to answer. Maybe Wall can tell us if anyone has even tried. Could it ever have been deemed "worth" it. ROD

I think he's saying that we only identify with the music cos it's all based on Pop Motown which was aimed at the white market anyway. When Black artists such as JB began to speak directly to the experience of Black Americans we didn't get it. With the obvious exception of something like "Say it loud..." Im not quite sure how such gems as "Hot pants", Get up I feel..." etc raised awareness of the everyday disadvantages of being Black in the USA in the 60's and 70's. In fact I'd be pretty careful who I cited as an icon of the Black "liberation struggle" if all I could come up with was a guy famed for his copious drug intake and tax evasion. Of course the piece was so convoluted I coulda got it wrong. ROD