Modernsoulsucks

I think that's a pretty fair summation. They don't make 'em like they used to!! Hence 2009 releases being pretty thin on the ground at Lifeline, Lowton and Middleton and the surprise and interest in Kings Go Forth. The scene may be insular in that it is self-contained but "insular" suggests a wider soul -loving world outside that which of course there isn't. Soul was always a minority passion outside of the USA and many soul fans with wide-ranging tastes have gravitated toward the scene as the one place that keeps the music alive. To say it is predominantly dance focused may have been true in the early days but you only have to look at threads on here to see that it's not only the music in the clubs that is appreciated. For an insular scene it's not done too bad in spreading the word abroad and in a small but significant way helping the odd artist to extend their careers just a little and make something out of their less than well-rewarded efforts back when. I think Mr Godin,extolling the virtues of Motown back in the 60's and starting up Soul City, would not be too critical of Mr Thorley making available Rotations or Mr Croasdell's Kent. I fail to see any connection with ego there and although aimed at a specific market the product is available to all. I do think though that John is right in that it is a rearguard action that can only delay the inevitable consignment of the music to History. ROD

If that's the 45 on Symbol played that at Stafford.WDJ off Anderson. Bombed out!! I think I see a pattern emerging!! ROD

Me!! Don't remember that at all!! As for Soul Bros Inc we had 2. I thought Alex kept a copy and sold other one to ? in mid 90's. It was a known 45 way back and seen others. My mate has Intensions. I played it around 2000/01 but bombed out everytime. "she went.." whatever which might not be the side that caught on. ROD

I had a quick look at that Nev. Obviously long time after so looks different now but I don't really see it as a bidding war. I think of that as two battling it out till one is the winner. What I don't get here is people bidding early on who then drop out before it's even reached a realistic price. I figured at least £1,000 so can't afford it myself. What's the point of getting involved? ROD

Im beginning to wonder if any of my memories are reliable!! I bet Tony was one of those guys who when he got a diary at Xmas he actually carried on filling it in after Jan 2nd. Here's a link. Not explored it fully myself but maybe some of the links therein have clips of shows and I notice Simmonds is in there. https://www.radiorewind.co.uk/radio1/radio_1_launch_day.htm ROD

I think Sat at 7pm and only first 30 minutes were soul. Probably new releases and then into "blues" which I think was his main interest beside horror films. I listened in the bath [showers had yet to be invented here!!]before going out. AFN [Am Forces Network] from Germany was also good for new stuff. Found it one night whilst trying to tune in Luxembourg. Remember hearing Stylistics "You're a big girl now" when it first got issued on Sebring[?]. Almost a throwback to doo-wop with sparse instrumentation and reliance on vocal interplay. I'd guess another influential record as far as sweet soul goes. No doubt Boba may comment if he reads the thread. ROD

I agree with you. No way can it be described as a re-issue. I'd have no problem with it being played out on Kent [it was, wasn't it] which is of course a legit re-issue. ROD

Yep, it beats me how any of us got into it then as exposure was virtually nil. I heard "Honey Chile" on Caroline in '68 I guess and was just taken by the sound compared to the "empty" IMO crap that was 60's pop. Went down to a record shop in Stockport to try and buy it and luckily met others in there who were more clued up and haven't looked back since. That musta been end of mod and embryonic NS era. I guess these others got to hear the stuff in clubs but hard to imagine now how underground it all really was and if I'd been out playing football instead of listening to Caroline.... ROD

Well I was wrong about ITV connection as it appears to be down to Dave Clark and Felonius has pointed out that it was '69 that the Motown re-releases started to hit whilst I thought it was slightly later when they also reissued some of the early NS popular tracks which went on to be sizeable hits like Tams, Bobby Hebb, Formations [i think], Tami Lynn. As for Felonius's question don't think it was so much that 60's Motown was suddenly in the pop charts that led to search for stuff to take it's place. That was going on anyway and there were still plenty of Motown tracks not available. Quicker turnover then and I guess most had been hammered by 70/71. I do maintain though that Black music in the UK was always extremely poorly represented on air and Mr.Godin I think was usually banging on about it. I don't think that's changed much on radio apart from specialist shows. Pretty sure "disco" and rap didn't get it's fair share either considering it's impact at the time. Either watered down UK versions like "Dance yourself dizzy" or Malcolm McClaren. Not much room for such as Soul Sonic Force. Kenny Everett and Noel Edmonds to Chris Moyles and Jo Wiley you can't expect much can you? ROD

RSG was Rediffusion,ITV hence no clips. BBC was always rubbish when it came to soul stuff and I bet most of us elderly types listened to Radios Caroline or Luxembourg before Radio 1 came on air and then it became apparent very quickly that soul was relegated to Mike Raven's show. Waste of time listening really although I do remember Blackburn playing Gene Chandler quite a few times as it musta just come out on Soul City. That's why most Motown things that were big hits in the US didn't do much with the odd exception and quite a few were hits only in early 70's on re-release. Think Im right on that but someone else may have a clearer memory. ROD

Couple of nice clips in first programme then rapidly downhill. Watched "Angel" instead and just flicked over in ads. Still Beeb/Radio 1 not exactly renowned for their coverage of soul music in the past which is one of the reasons why Northern was an underground scene. Next thing looks interesting but "Hellboy 2" beckons. Catch up with it on Iplayer hopefully. ROD

What's this fetching nowadays? ROD

DJ copy on here for £100 last December. Don't know if it sold. I'd say lower really, around £60-75 for a Minter. Get a second opinion though!! ROD

I do hope not. I don't do "Art". Before closing the front door on leaving the house I always check there's no one lurking armed with the jawbone of an ass. It always suggests to me clinical museums and sparsely attended galleries. Paxman last night related the tale of William Powell Frith's "Epsom" painting which on a tour of the UK in 1858 had to be protected against the crowds wishing to view by stout railings and a policeman. As a product of it's time it generated great interest although, if by some quirk in the space/time continium, next door were showing "Jurassic Park" I can confidently assert there would have been few takers. Today it's in the Tate with a second version in Manchester and I'd guess most of us don't have it's viewing on our list of things to do. What was once something fresh and new and among the best "entertainment" that the age could offer is now the preserve of the curators, custodians and archivists with minimal appeal to the population at large. Wouldn't really like the thought of Northern going the same way. The music and the following both arose from a certain point in time which with the passing of the years means less and less to those who came after. To preserve it artificially by elevating it to an art form worthy of retention for posterity ultimately confines it to the realm of dry and dusty scholarship where education replaces entertainment. See obsession with minutae of OVO!!! ROD

https://cgi.ebay.com/MARVIN-GAYE-CHAINED-NM...Q2em118Q2el1247 Unplayed at $6.99 here. ROD

Maybe need to look at posting of single 45s in seperate ads. If you post 5 seperate sales up instead of just the one comprising 5 x 45s you're gonna push sales off the first page faster than really necessary. ROD

No,I don't think so. Had a few over the years and still got a copy now. Not much in vogue either. ROD

I thought Black&Ward was a fiver!! ROD

"I told you just a couple of wraps would have been enough!"

I've known Robb K for nearly 30 years and he is a great one for constructing theories based on available limited evidence which far from being "sure" is purely speculation.For instance he had me looking for non-existent 45s back in the early 80's. He just thought they ought to have come out!! He was Tom de Pierro's mate and silent partner in Airwave label [Mel Carter,Delia Renee etc] and was involved in the "From the Vaults" project if only as a sounding board for what tracks to include as his knowledge of Motown is second to none. From what I gather LA motown did have a copy or two. Whilst working there Tom "acquired" one of those. I met Tom in 1980 and he told me that far from loaning the 45 to Sousson he'd made the mistake of leaving him in his office unattended and didn't realise it was missing till long after. He had a few shelves full of 45s. It was via Tom and Robb that those first unissued Motown tracks got played back at Stafford. I must admit that I veer towards Andy K's assertion that for a finished demo product 6 seems extremely low but then there's no definite evidence that there were more other than the easy availability of most Motown demo copies which suggests that usually they were produced in large numbers. There is however the precedent of the Patrice Holloway 45 on VIP although Im not sure how many copies of that exist or if it's only a demo or regular issue. Finally whilst it's interesting that FW is coming up for sale, the fever-pitch of speculation surrounding it is hard to understand when I can't imagine too many if any on here getting involved. ROD

Rich,I've got 'em all now and I've just looked and felt. Same vinyl and markings; virtue,LW and scratched matrix. All have that dip towards middle; you know not perfectly flat label. That's "Storm warning" blue/blue, "Help wanted" blue/black and "Your number one" white/black : that's label colour /writing respectively. "Laws.." and a few others are upstairs and pretty sure they're white/black. There were "boots" of some of the Arctic but they're easy to tell. Don't know why there's this sudden doubt being cast on Arctic 45s especially assertion that there were no Kenny Gamble's "Joke.." until it went big or whatever "Fingers" was trying to say. ROD

You're not thinking of "Chains of love" are you? I've had TJOY twice now. Once a week or so after Richard spun it at Wigan and two guys came into the record bar at around 3am with a couple of boxes of 45s they'd found in the USA. It was £2. And the copy I have now which came out of a promo load in Asheville,N.C. Neither instance suggests those copies were available due to some dodgy rip-off involving Northern demand. They're legit IMO ROD

Thinking about it, it coulda been later than 73/74 as I think I got a copy of that "Cream of the crop" 45 on Bale off them too real cheap and swapped it with Richard for "Sister Lee" and "Get it baby" so it musta been whenever that record was taking off. I think it was probably Colin who told Rick and Terry. ROD

Interesting point about the Tuff stuff reaching the Black Country first. Why was that? And where did Max get that Little Joe Roman from? Terry Thomas [Francis T] who is on here may have an answer. Him and Rick Cooper went off to I think Telford [Oldies Unltd?] one day and came back with loads of US imports inc Joe Romans DJ. Maybe around 73/74. He'll probably remember. I think I bought it off them for £40. I had a copy but long time ago now so I can't recall if it was off them. Think i also bought "Landslide" DJ off them at the same time from the same load. Telford ain't that far from Midlands. I remember Old Wells shop mentioned by Andy too although I didn't get there till '79 and no Joe Matthews. He did do a nice line in sexual aids with a huge vibrator standing on a table. Im not sure if he'd turned it into a lamp! Seemed to be a procession of "ladies" coming and going. Loads of hits in US but then you'd expect that but most unexpected over here was in mid 70's when McCadden,Withers and myself got at least 40 Lenny Curtis from the back of a shop in Ashton-under-Lyne amongst other things. ROD

I go to a rock'n' roll do in Preston now and again. I'd say the age group is probably younger overall than average NS do with quite a lot of people in their 20's and 30's. The attraction appears to be the live group. The dj plays CDs and there are no 45s for sale. As you know the Beach scene, older overall I'd say, once 45 focused is now pretty much CD orientated and the dj's use laptops. Neither of those examples appear to revolve around high-priced vinyl or any notion that it's any kind of retirement fund. As you say it's meant to be fun. ROD