Davebanks

Well I was there with my missus and a bunch of us from Merseyside. Must have been 1973. The band where over here to promote their second UK hit Stone in love with you, but it was the b side that was played at the Torch, Point of no return. We had known of the band from Stop Look and You are everything both non hits here in UK but played at most clubs in the north. They were the sort of band you wooulkd see every week in those days headlining at the local working mens club eg Drifters, Gems, Fantastics etc. As I recall they did not light up the Torch!! Certainly not in the same league as the Major or Junior Walker. It was also a time when top US soul acts regularily toured the UK, by then we had seen the 4 Tops, Supremes, Temptations, Martha Reeves and Stevie Wonder all the original lineups. So maybe we were hard to impress. We had also seen many of the fraud groups touring UK in the early 70s eg the Fabulous Impressions the Original Drifters. In fact if we had known that the Original Drifters were in fact the Invitations we would have been well impressed at the time!!! Dave Banks

Just knelt on a copy of Sandy Wynns - Loves like Quicksand on Canterbury and its cracked all the way across, Doh! I know its not that expensive to replace but I liked that copy, had it since 1972!!! Anyway whats your cherished record casualty. We have all heard of Frank Wilson being left on the chipshop counter and the Len Barry album flying off the top of Richard Searlings car, everyone must have similar tales to tell. Lets hear them. Dave Banks

Whilst we had heard quite few good sounds at various clubs around merseyside, like kittens and Jimmy conwell, what blew us away was hearing "unsatisfied" Lou Johnson at the Torch. That massive intro and rush to the dance floor then the syncopated claps which we had never experienced before, we were hooked. It was a life changing experience no less than that. The opening lines became our call sign Oh baby don't you turn aside, when spoken anywhere on a bus in a pub got the chorused response "don't you leave me so unsatisfied" happy naive days Dave Banks

Are you saying that Verlie Rice was the lead singer of the Chicago Inspirations, didn't know that. He wrote a few other songs as well. That inspirations track is one of my favourites as well, the drumming is fantastic. Does Verlie know who played the drums on the track by any chance? Dave Banks

Smokeys tears of a clown came out on demo and first few issues with you must be love on the b side before the b side was changed to the current USA hit. The name of which escapes me now as I am away from me records, sunning it in gran canaria. dave banks

Edwin Starr SOS Alice Clark you hit me Gloria Jones Tainted Love tunes with a close "association" with Motown Dave Banks

Been wondering what the sales figures were like for soul singles in the 60's and 70's. Cant seem to find ant data on the internet apart from certified gold and silver discs. At the time there was a lot of talk that some soul sides that sold well did not sell in chart shops and thus did not apear in the official charts. Also some records only sold in the north. All v ery well but what were the actual figures compared to some acts which made the charts? Are these sales figures company secrets guarded by the auditors in case the taxman or the artists find out how much was really made? It is quite often reported that Jimmy James A man like me sold in excess of 50k units, presumably on the back of plays at the Torch. Any info guys or sites that we can garner this data. Just out of curiosity. Dave Banks

Thanks for all your replies. I did look to see if it had been discussed before but not well enough eh! I seem to recall it being played out before the Torch but maybe at youth clubs and the like and I don't think it caught on then because it was too ""fast" . It is a little difficult to dance to sober!! However once we started travelling outside our local area we soon found out what dancing to rumour was all about. I. Recall one guy older than us in a black blazer and patent leather shoes, boy could his feet move, he only seemed to dance to the 100mph stuff, before we knew it as 100mph stuff !!! dave banks

Complete trivia I know but where was this first played "out" and by whom. Obvoiusly it was played from the soul on the rocks lip, listened to the first 20 seconds at 45 rpm many a time !!! dave banks

Could it be Bobby Rio who sang with the Essex group the Revelles? And covered the tops ask the lonely. Dave Banks

In my opinion Ians best tune is Candi Statons Just when you think its safe a great song and a truly fantastic soulful delivery by Candi, in fact I think its one of her best and thats saying something. It is available on youtube but my IT skills are dreadful!! Dave Banks

Saw ML a few times in the 70's including at the Torch when the live album was recorded. Lost my blue leather jacket that night. Had to wait until the very very end just before it shut at about 08:00 to see if it turned up. Could be why I fell asleep whilst driving on the way back to Merseyside. Crossed the central reservation on a dual carriageway then veered back across again. The lads in the back of the van didnt even wake up! Anyway saw ML at the Tivoli ballroom in Buckley N Wales, only about 20 of us there, Soul Sam on the decks. ML Spoke to us all after at the bar, top man. Top sound that night was Keanya collins Love bandit, bought Sams copy cos he had a spare! Dave Banks

Wandering thru our local antique market one day last year, saw a box of about 30 45's. Like many of us I couldnt resist a look and amongst all the 80's picture sleeves was a black UK Chess cover. Sure to be the Dells "rainbow" I thought...........but no ......... a stone mint Gospel classics more of your love ..wow and only 50p. Also on the same stall amongst the many Mantovani LPs was a mint copy of the Disco Strings of cloud 9 LP. An album from my youth club days, not seen a copy for 40 years. Dave Banks

Also like to add a plug for the Stylistics Point of no return. Perhaps a bit of a cheat because it was the B side of a big hit and also because it was played briefly on the scene at the Torch before the band had any UK hits. Dave Banks

most of the early Invictus stuff, Chairman and Freda Payne, would have been big on the scene if they hadn't stormed up the charts. Dave Banks

to get back to the question I think there where more people on the scene in the 70's. It seems bigger today because of the internet and the ease with which you can track down sounds on youtube etc. Back then we had hardly seen USA import let alone heard many. and the only way to hear stuff was to go to a club or hang around a mate of a mates house leafing thru his records. Just a little story might illustrate; my girlfriend (now wife) went to Liverpools NE tech in the early 1970s and came home one day with tales of a guy who had a cassette player (not that common then) on it he played a tape of a club in the midlands. She tells us that two of the tracks are killers, the Wonderettes and a powerful instrumental called she thinks "exodus". Next day we set off for the tech (a long bus ride away) track down said guy with cassette and are blown away by "exodus" he tells us it can only be heard at the Catacombs. Next weekend four of us set off for the Catacombs in Wolverhampton with not a clue where it is and sleeping on relatives floors. We came back telling everyone about "exus trek" being the greatest instrumental we had ever heard. Took 6 months before we even new there was a vocal. I think back then there was more desire to get out there and go where no one had gone before, now you can do it in your bedroom. Dave Banks

below is Part of an article from "that northern sound web site" , by 1970 the mardi gras was advertising regularily in blues and soul magazine and was one of the first clubs to list in the advert the rare singles they played. The Kittens aint no more room was massive then. Articles before in the likes of Blues and Soul have traced the roots of Northern Soul back to the late 50s or early 60s Jazz Clubs but by 1965 the basement clubs of North-West England were buzzing with R'n'B sounds from Stax and Motown. Clubs like the Downbeat Club and The Mardi Gras where packed on Fridays and Saturdays during the second half of the 60s as the new breed of soul loving teenagers hit the city of Liverpool. And it was happening across towns all over the UK but without publicity or hype. This soul scene grew phenomenally during the next 3 years and the Downbeat became the re-fitted Victoriana. And the playlists and live bands became edgier and less commercial. ‘The Fix’, a sax based soul group gave the audience the top soul dance songs of the day at 'live' sessions which included Knock On Wood, In The Midnight Hour, Hold On and Walking the Dog. Billy Butler had his own group, The Tuxedos, and then became a DJ at The Cavern. When it closed temporarily amid financial uncertainty in 1966, he started working at the Mardi Gras and its sister club, the Down Beat, which became the Victoriana on Victoria Street, Liverpool. Tamla Motown music was rising. “They were basically soul venues,” he says. “They liked black American soul and I played a lot of it. Then they started booking black American artists. I would introduce them at the Victoriana at, say, 9.30pm and taken them off at 10.30 to get them to the Mardi by 11 o’clock and on stage by 11.30.”

Merseyside had a slightly different version of NS as I recall with both northern and modern records being played and later philly stuff all alongside chart soul stuff like motown and stax. Yes blokes didnt dance on their own but the dancefloor was full of couples when Billy Butler was playing the then only copy in the UK of cigarette ashes at the Mardi Gras club. Billy was the first to play many a now classic northern track including Mamie Galore and the Kittens. Other clubs, some on the Wirral also had their followings but non I suppose was exclusively northern. Eight of us managed regular nighter visits to the Torch until I crashed the van !! Happy days Dave Banks

Well to be honest it depends how rare a record is. Very rare stuff not in auction you may get nearer 50% but more common stuff is a lot lot less and sometimes unsaleable despite say being £20-£40 in a book. Owners views of condition often vary to the purchaser as well. I have been dealing with JM for 35 years and always been satisfied with our deals. Dont forget trades can be different than just cash. Dave Banks

From soul fans like us !!! Just got back from Waltham after selling JM 1100 northern sounds, including 200 boots from the 70's and some rare stuff. Dave Banks

You know how it is ...some tracks grab you by the throat at first hearing, others take a few plays to worm their way into your brain. Then again there are a few tracks that all your mates love but leave you just cold........then years later the penny drops for you and you love it. Me? well I've just discovered Gwen Owens wanted and needed . I know I know how sad of me because it is great detroit northern; a classic. But in the 70's when first played on the northern scene this record just left me cold I dont quite know why. Then 6 months ago I found a copy (boot unfortunately) in the loft and have been playing it ever since. So what records have been sleepers in your house? Not the ones you still dislike but those that have converted you after a few years. And I don't mean that obscure 60's group sound your mate reckons is a monster but everyone else thinks is pants, but those classic tracks. Dave Banks

Absolutely fantastic!!! I want one of those stairlifts Dave Banks

ooooh that looks very high tech for what we had. But I suppose I am more reminiscing about the early days of discovery of the UK soul scene we were so behind our American cousins.

Back in the very early 70's before cassettes were commonplace and CDs were not yet invented some soulies had portable record players. Anyone got any info on these devices? We had one mate who had one and we took it all over the country to various clubs with just a handful of 45's. On one memorable trip to the Torch we had it in the car and played Otis Smith Let her go non stop from Liverpool to Stoke, we so loved that record. I know that all seems so old hat now with computers and mobile devices but back in the 60s and 70s it was so hard to hear the music we loved/craved. It made it all the more underground and mysterious. Anyone got any internety links to these ancient keys to our underground world????? Dave Banks