https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350347429384

few points here.......

just to confirm that the boot is red and original issue is bright pink and the demo is white/off white,yes?

who the hell would pay $202 for a boot?

why would an established dealer ( most of us know and have dealt with him) put a boot on ebay?

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350347429384

few points here.......

just to confirm that the boot is red and original issue is bright pink and the demo is white/off white,yes?

who the hell would pay $202 for a boot?

why would an established dealer ( most of us know and have dealt with him) put a boot on ebay?

I think the boot has a delta number which would make it look authentic - maybe that caught him out. One of the few Northern boots with a fake delta number

https://cgi.ebay.com/...em=350347429384

few points here.......

just to confirm that the boot is red and original issue is bright pink and the demo is white/off white,yes?

Yes , thats always been my understanding as well

I watched this as well.

Someone paid $305 in Jan 2008 and $92 in Feb 2010.

Thought I was mising something!!

Incidentally, about 18 months ago I saw he had a Wombat "Original" for sale at $300. I asked for a picture (as there wasn't one on at the time) just to check and sure enough it was the re-issue. I e-mailed to tell them and pointed them in the direction of a picture of a real one. They thanked me for the info and said they would inform the boss. It still remains for sale.

https://cgi.ebay.com/WOMBAT-Im-Gettin-Life-rare-soul-vinyl-45-/310124619488?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item4834de26e0

P.S. - apologies if I have it wrong on the Wombat.

Looks just like the one I have somewhere.... got it from Soul Bowl in 78ish.....did JA sell boots?

Looks just like the one I have somewhere.... got it from Soul Bowl in 78ish.....did JA sell boots?

Previous thread on Wombat

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/forums/topic/121833-aaarrgghhh-wombat-im-gettin-on-life/page__p__1253200__hl__wombat__fromsearch__1entry1253200

Looks just like the one I have somewhere.... got it from Soul Bowl in 78ish.....did JA sell boots?

I`d of thougt that these would have been the Gemni company legal reissues,with the upper case O on "MUSIC CO",

Orig has a small lower cass o on "MUSIC Co".

Dave f...........

He does answer the question at the bottom that it is a re-issue

P

I watched this as well.

Someone paid $305 in Jan 2008 and $92 in Feb 2010.

Thought I was mising something!!

Incidentally, about 18 months ago I saw he had a Wombat "Original" for sale at $300. I asked for a picture (as there wasn't one on at the time) just to check and sure enough it was the re-issue. I e-mailed to tell them and pointed them in the direction of a picture of a real one. They thanked me for the info and said they would inform the boss. It still remains for sale.

https://cgi.ebay.com/...=item4834de26e0

P.S. - apologies if I have it wrong on the Wombat.

Its looks the same as mine, and mine is a 're-issue'

P

I watched this as well.

Someone paid $305 in Jan 2008 and $92 in Feb 2010.

Thought I was mising something!!

Incidentally, about 18 months ago I saw he had a Wombat "Original" for sale at $300. I asked for a picture (as there wasn't one on at the time) just to check and sure enough it was the re-issue. I e-mailed to tell them and pointed them in the direction of a picture of a real one. They thanked me for the info and said they would inform the boss. It still remains for sale.

https://cgi.ebay.com/...=item4834de26e0

P.S. - apologies if I have it wrong on the Wombat.

That Wombat is a boot.

I`d of thougt that these would have been the Gemni company legal reissues,with the upper case O on "MUSIC CO",

Orig has a small lower cass o on "MUSIC Co".

Dave f...........

boot, pressing, reissue of what ever not the 1st orig.

I put up a scan of Wombat original a few weeks back.

I watched this as well.

Someone paid $305 in Jan 2008 and $92 in Feb 2010.

Thought I was mising something!!

Incidentally, about 18 months ago I saw he had a Wombat "Original" for sale at $300. I asked for a picture (as there wasn't one on at the time) just to check and sure enough it was the re-issue. I e-mailed to tell them and pointed them in the direction of a picture of a real one. They thanked me for the info and said they would inform the boss. It still remains for sale.

https://cgi.ebay.com/...=item4834de26e0

P.S. - apologies if I have it wrong on the Wombat.

And he has another in his current auctions

https://cgi.ebay.com/rare-Soul-45-WOMBAT-im-gettin-life-GEMNI-Listen-/310218250699?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item483a72d9cb

https://cgi.ebay.com/...em=350347429384

few points here.......

just to confirm that the boot is red and original issue is bright pink and the demo is white/off white,yes?

who the hell would pay $202 for a boot?

why would an established dealer ( most of us know and have dealt with him) put a boot on ebay?

John not being funny here, tell me a dealer who doesn't sell boots/pressing/re-issues, some of these are 30 years old and in some cases rarer than the original issues, what are they suposed to do put them in the bin. At the end of the day as long as they aren't put up to decieve it's the buyers choice what they want to pay for it, and you tell me wouldn't you sell it for $200+ if you could.

Edited May 6, 201015 yr by Netspeaky

John not being funny here, tell me a dealer who doesn't sell boots/pressing/re-issues, some of these are 30 years old and in some cases rarer than the original issues, what are they suposed to do put them in the bin. At the end of the day as long as they aren't put up to decieve it's the buyers choice what they want to pay for it, and you tell me wouldn't you sell it for $200+ if you could.

Both the Buster & Eddie & Wombat are second presses by the parent company, using the ORIGINAL company masterplate.

Both are 2nd. issues not bootlegs.

Craig Moerer is the most honest of record dealers and would never knowingly mislead. He employs 3 times the staff i do and many of these are employed in solely processing records, and to my knowledge none of them are Northern Soul experts.

People who buy second issues for large sums only have themselves to blame, the info is out there to differentiate between bootlegs, re-issues and orginals to avoid mistakes like this. Equally the info is there for Craig and his staff also.

If Craig makes a mistake he will refund without question and be big enough to admit it. In his defence he has a huge workforce (in record dealer terms) who do most of the processing for him.

Both the Buster & Eddie & Wombat are second presses by the parent company, using the ORIGINAL company masterplate.

Both are 2nd. issues not bootlegs.

Craig Moerer is the most honest of record dealers and would never knowingly mislead. He employs 3 times the staff i do and many of these are employed in solely processing records, and to my knowledge none of them are Northern Soul experts.

People who buy second issues for large sums only have themselves to blame, the info is out there to differentiate between bootlegs, re-issues and orginals to avoid mistakes like this. Equally the info is there for Craig and his staff also.

If Craig makes a mistake he will refund without question and be big enough to admit it. In his defence he has a huge workforce (in record dealer terms) who do most of the processing for him.

Thanks for clearing this up John,but in your own bootleg guide the red label Buster & Eddie is a boot.

Yes I agree with you regarding Craig's integrity,I have dealt with him quite often,100% satisfied or return,no problem.

I agree that there is a reduced sale value on boots and second issues (some of which as rare as the originals ) I have sold them myself but clearly described as not an original and therefore no comebacks.

Both the Buster & Eddie & Wombat are second presses by the parent company, using the ORIGINAL company masterplate.

Both are 2nd. issues not bootlegs.

Craig Moerer is the most honest of record dealers and would never knowingly mislead. He employs 3 times the staff i do and many of these are employed in solely processing records, and to my knowledge none of them are Northern Soul experts.

People who buy second issues for large sums only have themselves to blame,

CM did not offer the record as a second issue even though his reply to the enquiry he makes is clear that he knew that it was 2nd issue.

But as you say John "People who buy 2nd issues only have themselves to blame"...even off the "most honest of dealers"

CM did not offer the record as a second issue even though his reply to the enquiry he makes is clear that he knew that it was 2nd issue.

But as you say John "People who buy 2nd issues only have themselves to blame"...even off the "most honest of dealers"

I realise dealers can make mistakes ie believing a 2nd issue to be a 1st but personally I believe the emphasis is on the dealer to be honest and up front with their listings and state it's a 2nd issue (if they know that) and not on the buyer to be knowledgable about every little facet of one particular 45 ie matrix, width of run out, missing dot on an i, square edge, bevel edge etc etc.

My 2p

Both the Buster & Eddie & Wombat are second presses by the parent company, using the ORIGINAL company masterplate.

Both are 2nd. issues not bootlegs.

The point is second issues in which country? Not the USA.

They were made as special products for the UK Northern Scene, so can not be classed as USA release secord issues!

How many of these represses were sold, or intended for the USA public?

All shipped to the UK to be sold exclusively to satisfy demand on the Northern Soul Scene.

I've always thought of them as legal bootlegs!!

Edited May 7, 201015 yr by Perception

why would an established dealer ( most of us know and have dealt with him) put a boot on ebay?

I think Craig Moerer is leaving to much of the business to other people, who do not have his knowledge about records.

Things like this boil down to simply knowing your subject that goes for collectors/buyers and dealers alike, with a little research and asking around for a second opinion can at least cover your back, I'm not suggesting we should know it all that's impossible but there is enough help out there like price guides and many people qualified and expert in records to avoid falling fail of buying pressings and bootlegs by mistake.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Things like this boil down to simply knowing your subject that goes for collectors/buyers and dealers alike, with a little research and asking around for a second opinion can at least cover your back, I'm not suggesting we should know it all that's impossible but there is enough help out there like price guides and many people qualified and expert in records to avoid falling fail of buying pressings and bootlegs by mistake.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Sorry Mark but if a "well respect dealer" does not make it clear that the record is a second issue then he needs to be outed

Sorry Mark but if a "well respect dealer" does not make it clear that the record is a second issue then he needs to be outed

That's not what I said, my point is about knowing your subject from both the dealers and the buyers perspective in simple terms if you know what your looking at then you can avoid non authentic records, i.e. knowing the difference betweeen a Buster And Eddie pressing/bootleg and the original, I do take your point that said dealer on this ocassion has been around long enough to know the difference so no excuses there but again my point is basically knowledge is power.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

That's not what I said, my point is about knowing your subject from both the dealers and the buyers perspective in simple terms if you know what your looking at then you can avoid non authentic records, i.e. knowing the difference betweeen a Buster And Eddie pressing/bootleg and the original, I do take your point that said dealer on this ocassion has been around long enough to know the difference so no excuses there but again my point is basically knowledge is power.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Sorry mark but ICM he should have said on the Ebay offer that it was a 2nd issue or he is just another secondhand car dealer IMO

Edited May 7, 201015 yr by Rbman

Sorry mark but ICM he should have said on the Ebay offer that it was a 2nd issue or he is just another secondhand car dealer IMO

Fair point but simply on looking at the scan if you know your subject which again is my point and of course are aware what an authentic copy looks like then well that answers the question regarding it being a second issue but again I guess if that is stated then there is no confusion.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Edited May 7, 201015 yr by Mark Bicknell

Fair point but simply on looking at the scan if you know your subject which again is my point and of course are aware what an authentic copy looks like then well that answers the question regarding it being a second issue but again I guess if that is stated then there is no confusion.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Why do you want to defend CM...Mark, i know you know your subject but this dealer needs to be honest or be outed.... i was amazed that John Manship tried to defend him. When i want a record I know i pay over the odds when i buy off JM but I hope it is a first issue unless he says so. i have lots of friends who give me the correct info but for JM to protect CM when he is trying it on is a no no IMO.

Edited May 7, 201015 yr by Rbman

Why do you want to defend CM...Mark, i know you know your subject but this dealer needs to be honest or be outed.... i was amazed that John Manship tried to defend him. When i want a record I know i pay over the odds when i buy off JM but I hope it is a first issue unless he says so. i have lots of friends who give me the correct info but for JM to protect CM when he is trying it on is a no no IMO.

Again that's not my point and I'm not defending CM, I'm not suggesting I alone know my subject more a general point for everyone wheeling and dealing in records that a little research if you are unsure if a record is authentic simply covers your back and could avoid instances like this, I don't personally know CM so can't comment on his knowledge all I know about the man is he has a good reputation and the fact that he's been dealing in records for many years, at no point in my replies have I deffended CM so I don't know where you got that from, again my point was based on knowing your subject, do your homework, ask for a second opinion if you are unsure to avoid paying over the odds for a second issue/pressing or whatever, I guess at the end of the day no one forced the bidder/buyer to get involved with this auction record and I can't help thinking that they realised after the fact that it's a second issue which reverts back to if you know your subject beforehand then any mistakes can simply be avoided.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Again that's not my point and I'm not defending CM, I'm not suggesting I alone know my subject more a general point for everyone wheeling and dealing in records that a little research if you are unsure if a record is authentic simply covers your back and could avoid instances like this, I don't personally know CM so can't comment on his knowledge all I know about the man is he has a good reputation and the fact that he's been dealing in records for many years, at no point in my replies have I deffended CM so I don't know where you got that from, again my point was based on knowing your subject, do your homework, ask for a second opinion if you are unsure to avoid paying over the odds for a second issue/pressing or whatever, I guess at the end of the day no one forced the bidder/buyer to get involved with this auction record and I can't help thinking that they realised after the fact that it's a second issue which reverts back to if you know your subject beforehand then any mistakes can simply be avoided.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I can see what you are saying Mark, but there is no way CM did not know that the Can't Be Still was a second issue...even I knew.....Why did JM come to his defence?

I can see what you are saying Mark, but there is no way CM did not know that the Can't Be Still was a second issue...even I knew.....Why did JM come to his defence?

No idea mate perhaps you need to ask John that question, the joke is I currently have a Buster and Eddie for sale and yes it's an original lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

No idea mate perhaps you need to ask John that question, the joke is I currently have a Buster and Eddie for sale and yes it's an original lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Haha..how much?

https://shop.ebay.com/craigmoerer/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

I like his page, can't really argue with that. Outed Lol

People who buy second issues for large sums only have themselves to blame, the info is out there to differentiate between bootlegs, re-issues and orginals

Very harsh , just as investors in fine art expect experts at Christies to identify a fake before putting it in an auction , collectors of rare vinyl expect dealers like yourself & CM to state that a record is a 2nd issue if you know thats what it is . Of course mistakes are made , but this is obviously not a mistake as he has identified it as a 2nd issue when asked directly , so he obviously knew all along & could have put '2nd issue' in the description when it was listed..........Collectors are often prepared to buy from reputable dealers (such as yourself ) at a higher price than elsewhere believing in that dealers integrety . In this instance the trust given to CM is IMO misplaced.

Very harsh , just as investors in fine art expect experts at Christies to identify a fake before putting it in an auction , collectors of rare vinyl expect dealers like yourself & CM to state that a record is a 2nd issue if you know thats what it is . Of course mistakes are made , but this is obviously not a mistake as he has identified it as a 2nd issue when asked directly , so he obviously knew all along & could have put '2nd issue' in the description when it was listed..........Collectors are often prepared to buy from reputable dealers (such as yourself ) at a higher price than elsewhere believing in that dealers integrety . In this instance the trust given to CM is IMO misplaced.

Yes Martyn - well said - you have got the essence of the issue here. Richard

Very harsh , just as investors in fine art expect experts at Christies to identify a fake before putting it in an auction , collectors of rare vinyl expect dealers like yourself & CM to state that a record is a 2nd issue if you know thats what it is . Of course mistakes are made , but this is obviously not a mistake as he has identified it as a 2nd issue when asked directly , so he obviously knew all along & could have put '2nd issue' in the description when it was listed..........Collectors are often prepared to buy from reputable dealers (such as yourself ) at a higher price than elsewhere believing in that dealers integrety . In this instance the trust given to CM is IMO misplaced.

I'm glad I'm not only one making this point Martyn.....as i have said i don't mind paying a premium price from JM as I TRUST him to sell me a legit first issue in tiptop condition. If i think he or CM or anyone else is willing to be economical with the truth then I'll stick to CDs.

Glad you 2 lads feel the same way ...........Must say I was quite suprised at John's take on this . There are several times I have bought from John's list in the past without seeing a scan , so I can only apply my knowledge of the record purchased after it has been paid for & arrived - I have always been pleased with the goods as he has never sent me a second issue when I've paid for an original & I trust he never would , which is why i find his defense of CM rather strange .