Sonny Herman.

Does anybody else rate this? I think its brilliant,powerhouse soul vocals and that "driving beat",why has this stayed so long off the radar?

Is it really rare or just obscure? Anyone know about the UTOPIA label? Value anyone? Chalks?

Rob

Your right, great tune IMO and has never been about in any sort of quantity.

A couple of weeks back JM had one on auction which only fetched £350 (a steal in anyones books) the same day one went through ebay for £500. Truth is the record is off most peoples radar as you mention, however this does have potential to be a future biggie. I sold one last year for £900 which I thought was still a good buy at that price as its so rarely seen.

Its known to many of the top collectors & Jocks but not the masses.

ATB Darren

Sonny Herman.

Does anybody else rate this? I think its brilliant,powerhouse soul vocals and that "driving beat",why has this stayed so long off the radar?

Is it really rare or just obscure? Anyone know about the UTOPIA label? Value anyone? Chalks?

Rob

Yeah this is a fantastic record,that you never hear played out nowadays.

The last I heard this was in the late eighties at Brighouse Civic Centre all nighter run by Steve Croft I think,but It was the mighty Bub who played it, loved that much,it took me ages to find out the Artist & title,the last time I saw it for sale was on Mr Brown's list as well

KTF Gigs

Is that right ? I would have thought its a known record to most ? I just played it last saturday to a good response at Bremen`s Soul-A-Rama...Having said that it must have been the first time I played it since over a year at least....solid old fashioned LA stomper. Who was the only other 45 on Utopia by ?

Marc

Is that right ? I would have thought its a known record to most ? I just played it last saturday to a good response at Bremen`s Soul-A-Rama...Having said that it must have been the first time I played it since over a year at least....solid old fashioned LA stomper. Who was the only other 45 on Utopia by ?

Marc

Don Trotter?

Don Trotter?

10/10 cheers Jaco.

I've always included this one on and off, the label is a sister label to Money and the other release is Don Trotter which unfortunately is nowhere near as good.

I would have said about £800 but that seems a bit off the mark looking at the two auction prices. However auctions not really a true representation of the actual value most of the time and I've seen it for sale around the £800 mark a few times. Don't see it very often and see no reason for it to come down in value.

Neither is this an unknown, been around years and had plays over the years.

I would have said about £800 but that seems a bit off the mark looking at the two auction prices. However auctions not really a true representation of the actual value most of the time and I've seen it for sale around the £800 mark a few times. Don't see it very often and see no reason for it to come down in value.

Neither is this an unknown, been around years and had plays over the years.

Yep, used to be a few lists in the 70's as a three quider......but then again there were many like that.

I always quite liked this - a nice catchy stomper. Found a few in L.A. but no one did cartwheels about it back then but maybe the time is right these days........

Ian D

Yep, used to be a few lists in the 70's as a three quider......but then again there were many like that.

I always quite liked this - a nice catchy stomper. Found a few in L.A. but no one did cartwheels about it back then but maybe the time is right these days........

Ian D

Think it's always been one of those Ian that has been bubbling away under the surface for want of an expression but never really had its day. Like you say maybe now is the time but somehow doubt it unless someone like Butch plays it then everyone will want one to play So many good tunes bubbling away under the surface but too many DJ's lack any imagination and need to know something is popular before playing it.

Thanks everyone who replied,it seems that Sonny Herman was in fact Herman Cheyney = lead singer for the doo-wop group,The Jaguars ! I can't find any mention of any other 6Ts solo from him apart from this monster.

Talk about obscure labels (and artists)going nowhere,UTOPIA sure fits that bill !

Can't recall any lists that had this on for 3 quid,"senior citizen's memory lapse" !

And I cannot recall seeing or hearing it anywhere ever.(in the 7Ts and 8Ts).or anyone even talking about it:(

Rob.

ps.Ian do you recall what you sold 'em for ?

Thanks everyone who replied,it seems that Sonny Herman was in fact Herman Cheyney = lead singer for the doo-wop group,The Jaguars ! I can't find any mention of any other 6Ts solo from him apart from this monster.

Talk about obscure labels (and artists)going nowhere,UTOPIA sure fits that bill !

Can't recall any lists that had this on for 3 quid,"senior citizen's memory lapse" !

And I cannot recall seeing or hearing it anywhere ever.(in the 7Ts and 8Ts).or anyone even talking about it:(

Rob.

ps.Ian do you recall what you sold 'em for ?

I originally bought one from Brian Phillips circa 1974 for £3. And the ones I found in L.A. were sent through to Neil Rushton as part of a bulk shipment back in '76 so god knows what they went for........

Ian D

I originally bought one from Brian Phillips circa 1974 for £3. And the ones I found in L.A. were sent through to Neil Rushton as part of a bulk shipment back in '76 so god knows what they went for........

Ian D

Did you know at that time what the sound actually was...? And during your time spent in LA were you ever frustrated at not having found what you were expecting/hoping to find? Are there any sounds that you just never found ? (I am referring here to west coast stuff,eg Ray Agee "I'm losing" on Soultown.....come to think of it,I always suspected this was a Simon boot and not a boa fide release...is this why its still so rare?

have you a memory of what you regretted not keeping to this day,from your LA hauls,call it "my top ten I wish I still had"...?

Rob.

Did you know at that time what the sound actually was...? And during your time spent in LA were you ever frustrated at not having found what you were expecting/hoping to find? Are there any sounds that you just never found ? (I am referring here to west coast stuff,eg Ray Agee "I'm losing" on Soultown.....come to think of it,I always suspected this was a Simon boot and not a boa fide release...is this why its still so rare?

have you a memory of what you regretted not keeping to this day,from your LA hauls,call it "my top ten I wish I still had"...?

Rob.

Yep, I'd listened to the Sonny Herman and liked it even though it wasn't as obvious as a lot of other stuff at the time. Nice catchy tune.

I found absolutely loads of things like Ray Agee, Kell Osbourne, Bobby Angelle, Troy Dodds etc, etc but actually left the vast majority of 'em either because I'd be with Soussan and ask him if he knew it and he'd say something along the lines of, "repetitive garbaaaage baby boy" or, "common as hell, I use 'em for frisbees" or something similar OR because I'd listen to 'em and in 1976 they'd often sound too slow, too RnB'ish or just too dull at the time. Remember this was '76 and I was really looking for another Bob Relf or Tempos at the time so without a crystal ball who was to know that the sound would eventually evolve and accept less obvious stuff?

It became pretty frustrating when I used to bump into Sam in the 80's and he'd show me all these super rare L.A. releases that I'd left in garages in '76 including Ray Agee because there just couldn't be another great record on Soultown that wasn't already known could there LOL....?.

Also what I couldn't believe was that one of Arthur Fenn's greatest hits was at Monarch where I'd hung around regularly for months and found quite a few things (including the Si Hightower test-pressing) but I never found that room that Arthur got into! It just goes to show you that however well you think you've got something covered there's always that oddball occasion when luck comes into the equation.

Ian D

Edited September 15, 201014 yr by Ian Dewhirst

Yep, I'd listened to the Sonny Herman and liked it even though it wasn't as obvious as a lot of other stuff at the time. Nice catchy tune.

I found absolutely loads of things like Ray Agee, Kell Osbourne, Bobby Angelle, Troy Dodds etc, etc but actually left the vast majority of 'em either because I'd be with Soussan and ask him if he knew it and he'd say something along the lines of, "repetitive garbaaaage baby boy" or, "common as hell, I use 'em for frisbees" or something similar OR because I'd listen to 'em and in 1976 they'd often sound too slow, too RnB'ish or just too dull at the time. Remember this was '76 and I was really looking for another Bob Relf or Tempos at the time so without a crystal ball who was to know that the sound would eventually evolve and accept less obvious stuff?

It became pretty frustrating when I used to bump into Sam in the 80's and he'd show me all these super rare L.A. releases that I'd left in garages in '76 including Ray Agee because there just couldn't be another great record on Soultown that wasn't already known could there LOL....?.

Also what I couldn't believe was that one of Arthur Fenn's greatest hits was at Monarch where I'd hung around regularly for months and found quite a few things (including the Si Hightower test-pressing) but I never found that room that Arthur got into! It just goes to show you that however well you think you've got something covered there's always that oddball occasion when luck comes into the equation.

Ian D

Thank Ian,that makes gr8 reading...now I know why I never found a Ray Agee back in 1985 ...nor any Sonny Herman's nor Kell Osbourne

would be nice if Arthur Fenn could chip in on some LA hauling story just for drooling sakes

so from what you say,if I read it right,these records are not as rare as we(who don't have them)think they are? they're just sat in boxes in attics,basements or living rooms in the UK....someone over in LA once told me "no way can LA be totally wiped out,there'll always be something here,its too big".Were you ever of that opinion? Maybe theres still a copy of Sonny Herman somewhere there waiting to be found

Rob.

Thank Ian,that makes gr8 reading...now I know why I never found a Ray Agee back in 1985 ...nor any Sonny Herman's nor Kell Osbourne

would be nice if Arthur Fenn could chip in on some LA hauling story just for drooling sakes

so from what you say,if I read it right,these records are not as rare as we(who don't have them)think they are? they're just sat in boxes in attics,basements or living rooms in the UK....someone over in LA once told me "no way can LA be totally wiped out,there'll always be something here,its too big".Were you ever of that opinion? Maybe theres still a copy of Sonny Herman somewhere there waiting to be found

Rob.

Actually I never thought Sonny Herman was that rare anyway - maybe 'cos I always had it in my head it was a three-quider 'cos that's what I bought it for.

And in the mid 70's it was obviously a lot easier to locate garages, shops and market stalls full of stuff. Where I remember the bulk of the L.A. label stuff being around was actually in a bloke's garage in the 2nd week I was in L.A. If I'd known then what I know now, I would have totally cleaned up from just that one location. But there were also nutcases like Chris Peake who had a bungalow packed full of mostly West Coast stuff - that's where I found the 2nd known copy of Willie Hutch, the first Judy Street and a bundle of other West Coast obscurities. Also there were some great collectors out there like Darryl Stolper who had fantastic runs of L.A. labels including all the goodies.......

Ian D

Actually I never thought Sonny Herman was that rare anyway - maybe 'cos I always had it in my head it was a three-quider 'cos that's what I bought it for.

And in the mid 70's it was obviously a lot easier to locate garages, shops and market stalls full of stuff. Where I remember the bulk of the L.A. label stuff being around was actually in a bloke's garage in the 2nd week I was in L.A. If I'd known then what I know now, I would have totally cleaned up from just that one location. But there were also nutcases like Chris Peake who had a bungalow packed full of mostly West Coast stuff - that's where I found the 2nd known copy of Willie Hutch, the first Judy Street and a bundle of other West Coast obscurities. Also there were some great collectors out there like Darryl Stolper who had fantastic runs of L.A. labels including all the goodies.......

Ian D

Y'a got me drooling now...your finds must have been hallucinating why stop now please continue...whatever happened to Darryl Stolper or others you came across?

Rob.

Y'a got me drooling now...your finds must have been hallucinating why stop now please continue...whatever happened to Darryl Stolper or others you came across?

Rob.

Well, by the end of my 6 months in L.A. I was more involved in other things. I'd just completed co-producing a track (with the infamous Simon Soussan) which went on to sell a million copies, so I was suddenly hob-nobbing in different circles by that point - generally around the record companies like Casablanca, Soultrain and Motown (where I introduced Soussan to a guy called Tom Depeiro who introduced Soussan to the Motown record archive where Soussan 'liberated' the Frank Wilson record). So by the end of '76 and the point where my visa ended, I was trying to tie up the loose ends with the Shalamar deal (unsuccessfully as it happens but that's another story), close off a relationship with an American girl and generally try and get back to the UK in one piece. I fully expected to return to L.A. in '77 and continue where I left off but circumstances changed and I ended up staying in the UK, so I never really continued in the full-time record-hunting business, just did it time to time whenever I was back in the U.S. from then on.

I'm pretty sure some of the guys on here will remember or know Darryl. He had a collection and a half and was a serious collector although I seem to remember he collected from the 50's forward so probably a lot of Doo-Wop in there but some mouth-watering Northern too. Similarly Chris Peake who I know various other people bumped into over the years and they would have found great records there 'cos he had tens of thousands and you never knew what you'd find on any particular visit. I often wonder about some of the characters I met during that time - a guy called Al who used to be Lou Ragland's manager and who was in hock to the mob and had a houseful of great records, the guy from New Jersey who relocated to Redondo Beach with all his record shop stock and the guy who ran a household goods stall in East L.A. with 100,000 records that were left outside with just a plastic sheet protecting 'em. Happy days indeed!

Ian D

Well, by the end of my 6 months in L.A. I was more involved in other things. I'd just completed co-producing a track (with the infamous Simon Soussan) which went on to sell a million copies, so I was suddenly hob-nobbing in different circles by that point - generally around the record companies like Casablanca, Soultrain and Motown (where I introduced Soussan to a guy called Tom Depeiro who introduced Soussan to the Motown record archive where Soussan 'liberated' the Frank Wilson record). So by the end of '76 and the point where my visa ended, I was trying to tie up the loose ends with the Shalamar deal (unsuccessfully as it happens but that's another story), close off a relationship with an American girl and generally try and get back to the UK in one piece. I fully expected to return to L.A. in '77 and continue where I left off but circumstances changed and I ended up staying in the UK, so I never really continued in the full-time record-hunting business, just did it time to time whenever I was back in the U.S. from then on.

I'm pretty sure some of the guys on here will remember or know Darryl. He had a collection and a half and was a serious collector although I seem to remember he collected from the 50's forward so probably a lot of Doo-Wop in there but some mouth-watering Northern too. Similarly Chris Peake who I know various other people bumped into over the years and they would have found great records there 'cos he had tens of thousands and you never knew what you'd find on any particular visit. I often wonder about some of the characters I met during that time - a guy called Al who used to be Lou Ragland's manager and who was in hock to the mob and had a houseful of great records, the guy from New Jersey who relocated to Redondo Beach with all his record shop stock and the guy who ran a household goods stall in East L.A. with 100,000 records that were left outside with just a plastic sheet protecting 'em. Happy days indeed!

Ian D

fantastic adventures indeed

you left behind a Little Willy Faulk tho ...thankfully

Rob.