Can anyone clear up an argument:-

According to Kev Roberts "N Soul top 500"there are only 2 known originals owned by K Burrell and T Brown.Is this info still correct?

Help...There are pints riding on this!

Can anyone clear up an argument:-

According to Kev Roberts "N Soul top 500"there are only 2 known originals owned by K Burrell and T Brown.Is this info still correct?

Help...There are pints riding on this!

correct. tho was rumour of a third. maybe only a rumour...

A little more than a rumour. ;-)

I was told Ron Murphy "found" the "second" copy after placing an advert in the local press asking for employees of the pressing plant concerned to come forward.

How many more copies went home with the employees or even with the Motown employees when Berry Gordy ordered all promos destroyed once it was decided to concentrate on Frank's writing and not his singing?

I've heard that there are at lease 5 copies in the UK

3 of these are owned by avide Motown collectors who are not on our soul scene.

Heard this around 10-12yrs ago

This maybe only a rummor, but I can't see that theres only 2 known copies

Look at the Mello Soul, rummored to be only one copy, yet another turned up !!!!!

i did read frank murphys account of this and if i can remember where i'll post it up. v. interesting read it is too. The pressing plant kept 3 copies of everything they pressed. they had a clear out and the employee was told to ditch the lot, he ditched 2 and kept one of everything which is how frank murhpy got it ...along with a load of other goodies... for only a few $

sorry can't spell 'rumour'

Look at the Mello Soul, rummored to be only one copy, yet another turned up!!!!!

Bloody good tune IMO

what frank wilson?

BTW are you still stalking him?

The mello souls, yes I'm still stalking Frank, his record is quite good as well ;-)

Kevjohns is right as i read somewhere (can't remember where now - old age!) that there were at least 3 other copies residing within the M25 in Motown collectors hands - how true? Well we may find out one day. I've not seen an 'All For You' on US Soul or an Adantes either for that matter and have always considered them to be just as rare - seen listed yes, seen no :-(

i did read frank murphys account of this

yes I'm still stalking Frank

Karen, you're stalking Frank Murphy - what, the builder ?!

Mello Soul was not "rumoured", there was only one known at a certain point in time if I am not mistaken, and later more were found. Just like Frankie Beverly on Rouser of which there was supposedly only one known (in the UK anyway), until recently when a couple of others surfaced. One must not mix the past with the present since that becomes quite confusing.

You can get another Tamla Motown reissue for £3.99. It's been rerelaesed along with a load of other standards to celebrate Motown's 45th anniversary. It's better tham paying £20 for a Stardust copy!!

rumours rumours but I heard from a very knowledgable bloke that these were given out at a USA motown convention.......anybody else heard this ?

also that given the size of the USA and the number of avid collectors that there should be/is/probably about a dozen or 15 in the hands of ''anoraks'' in the USA who are not remotely interested in who knows what records they have got and are not remotely interested in this soul thing of ours........hard to believe,maybe,but not impossible to think ?

Karen, you're stalking Frank Murphy - what, the builder ?!

LOL Kolla, no Janine thinks I'm stalking Frank Wilson, but she thinks I'm a general stalker anyway so look out behind you ;-)

"i did read frank murphys account of this and if i can remember where i'll post it up. v. interesting read it is too. The pressing plant kept 3 copies of everything they pressed. they had a clear out and the employee was told to ditch the lot, he ditched 2 and kept one of everything which is how frank murhpy got it ...along with a load of other goodies... for only a few $ "

Whilst I wrote an account of hearing Kenny Burrell play Do I Love You on a rented deck which was picked up by the record Collecting magazine Goldmine it is Ron Murphy (no relation) who apparently has a third copy.

I do not wish Northern Tykes besieging my home or asking me to play it when I DJ;)

Check Kev Robert's history of the record here

https://www.goldsoul.co.uk/your-ns/frankwilson.html

Whilst I wrote an account of hearing Kenny Burrell play Do I Love You on a rented deck  which was picked up by the record Collecting magazine Goldmine it is Ron Murphy (no relation) who apparently has a third copy.

I do not wish Northern Tykes besieging my home or asking me to play it when I DJ;)

Sorry Frank, meant Ron!!

I thought Rons copy went to Koppel which is now with Kenny Burrell.

Interesting all these rumours, has anyone actually seen another copy though?

Didn't Saddam Smith own it at one stage? Sure he did?

Maybe I am a little over cautious, and would never be able to own a record of this value anyway.

But I would give an extremely wide berth to any record that had links to Simon Soussan, in it's history. I have to say so Mike doesnt get into trouble, that is MY OWN PERSONAL VIEW.

His name hasn't exactly been linked in complete and total glory, to discovering rare originals has it?

Mello Soul was not "rumoured", there was only one known at a certain point in time if I am not mistaken, and later more were found. Just like Frankie Beverly on Rouser of which there was supposedly only one known (in the UK anyway), until recently when a couple of others surfaced. One must not mix the past with the present since that becomes quite confusing.

There was only one copy of the Mello Souls for years, Butch's copy. Then Kitch and Dean Anderson found one on a trip to the US and then Shifty turned a copy up. Dez Parker recently purchased a Dick Charles studio disc ;-)

Am i the only one who doesn't like FW - DILY???? Great big steaming pile of pooh IMVFHO ;o)))

John

Am i the only one who doesn't like FW - DILY???? Great big steaming pile of pooh IMVFHO ;o)))

John

Me too, sack of s**te. When you consider you could buy 1500 copies if the Isley Bros -This old heart for the same money, smash up 1499 of them, and have a rare, good motown record!!

Pile of pooh or greatest thing ever , what do you think it would fetch if one of the known copies were put up for auction the way prices have escalated lately?

Craig.

there was a list printed in a fanzine with prices /values of motown and stable and frank wilsons value was not that high most were 10 15 dollarrs or more but fw was less than 10 i think may be mistaken but the american collctors in the 60/70s did not rate it high value so this would i assume make it seem there may be a few copies in the US.

mark

Chalky was told in the 80's by a well known Detroit anorak on the scene of a West Coast Deejay who supposedly had two copies of the record.

Oh and Tim Brown was offered $50.000 for his copy by Frank Wilson.

Here's Kev's story of how the record came about etc....

So what's the real story? Well, being one of the former owners I will attempt to shine a little light on the mystery surrounding Frank Wilson's anthem 'Do I love You' Soul 35019.

Firstly the actual discovery was made by a former researcher Tom Dieperro, a Motown historian who worked for them in the mid 70's. The disc unplayed, had been given to him by the company for future research purposes

Low on Tom's list of priorities, the disc and its destiny were about to be turned upside down when legendary Northern soul dealer and record producer Simon Soussan finally met with him. They both shared a love of Detroit and Motown in particular, Dieperro gave a clutch of oddball 45's including Frank Wilson to Soussan to listen to.

The initial play was enough to send Simon into a frenzy and with his marketing know how immediately sent acetates to UK DJs under the guise of Eddie Foster.

Understandably it became Northern's biggest ever find and caused much debate as to its real identity (Simon being notorious for discovering Northern classics and giving them false identities).

The secret was out in 1978 when Simon offered his collection to Les McCutcheon (an entrepreneur from Weybridge in Surrey who later formed the band Shakatak amongst other chart successes).

The fact that it was now owned by a relatively unknown player in Les Mac, and the fact that its origin was Motown, made collectors give it a luke warm reception.

Whether or not Les got cold feet or simply moved on to pastures new remains unclear, but the disc was subsequently sold to Jonathan Woodcliffe, a Nottingham DJ who briefly emerged as one of the UK's top collectors. Jon later became a dance jock and a close ally of Alex Lowes and the Southport dance weekender.

With a sudden change of heart Jonathan agreed to part company with the record to yours truly, who owned the disc for over 10 years. When my future partner in 'Goldmine/Soul supply Ltd' Tim Brown, who is reputedly the worlds biggest Northern soul dealer offered me the (then) staggering sum of £3,000. At the time I thought that the Northern scene had bottomed out and I couldn't see prices getting any higher, so I agreed to the deal. Tim was subsequently offered the unbelieveable sum of £15,000 for the 45 by Kenny Burrell. The 45 has been voted by collectors and d/j's the biggest Northern soul single of all time.

© Kev Roberts 1998

Notes

The single was scheduled for release on the U.S. Motown subsiduary label 'Soul' on December 23rd 1965.

Marvin Gaye had recorded a version of the flip side 'Sweeter As The Days Go By'. Chris Clark also recorded 'Do I Love You'.

The single gained a UK release in the early 1980's.

A source at Motown/Polygram revealed Wilson's about turn on his vocal debut and quickly convinced Berry Gordy to destroy all existing promo copies.

Frank Wilson was a reputable writer and producer and has legendary status with Northern soul collectors for his work with Connie Clark and the Checkerboard Squares amongst others. He is now believed to be associated with he church in Northern California.

Oh and Tim Brown was offered $50.000 for his copy by Frank Wilson.

Kenny Burell certainly was offered that amount, I asked him

it's always difficult pin pointing exact quantities of records but the tom dieppero story is pretty much correct he did work at motown and did aquire the frank wilson along with the famous haul of unissued motown stuff that he sent to dave withers and rod shard- stafford era, around the same time i worked at browny's and tom paid a visit and gave us the 4 c90's packed with fantastic unissued tracks ie - don't beat arond the bush, boy from crosstown -ect.. a short time before he died, he was a real gent and fantastic fellow the truth is ( i'm sure he won't mind me saying all this stuff was stolen from motown then based on the west coast ) i still have them somewhere ! i know of another frank wilson in the u.k and another in the states but never the less a true rarity that will never come along fact ! sure frank offered a lot of money for it and so did gordy when he bought the most complete collection of motown in excistance from a u.s collector ( that was missing the above named item ) so all in all not a big mystery but a interesting history of a true masterpiece ! andy d.

I've heard that there are at lease 5 copies in the UK

3 of these are owned by avide Motown collectors who are not on our soul scene.

Heard this around 10-12yrs ago

This maybe only a rummor, but I can't see that theres only 2 known copies

I am pretty sure this is just hearsay. I know of an Andantes, but the owner doesn't have a Frank Wilson or know of anyone who has got one, in the UK Motown (non- Northern) circle.

Check Kev Robert's history of the record here

https://www.goldsoul.co.uk/your-ns/frankwilson.html

quite frankly, kev roberts is - as usual - talking out of his pipe end.

i've always treat the 'only 2 around' bollocks with a pinch of salt - dave raistrick DEFINITELY had one for sale at Clee winter gardens all-dayer around 80-81. £200 was the asking price then - unless the erstwhile roberts had sold it at a loss.

cheers

Scotty