Im new to northern soul, mainly into skinhead ska/reggae

just wondered what the term crossover meant?

and is there other sub genres?

Why do people need to have things pigeon holed just so they can decide how good a record if before they hear it?

No wonder the scene is the way it is today.

(not aiming this specifically at leeham as he appears to have asked a genuine question but the mind is like a parachute - works best when its open)

Must admit Ged.,that pigeon holeing is probably the biggest problem the scene has .

I always take music as it comes ..don't like to dis-associate with any particular genre because somewhere in everyones set is a place for any record and if it's well thought out ,it usually works.

Nobody can tell anyone else what they can or can't like ..it's a case of you do or don't like a record.

And as the question asked for the definition of the term cross-over ...it saddens me why so many narrow minded people felt the need to go off topic and give their un-valued opinion ,that had nowt to do with the question .

It is an open forum and debate is good ,but unless the original post asked " what do you think of cross-over" ? ..there is no need to take part .

Read the post ....take a good hard look,take a long deep breath and ask yourself ....what it really is that fills you full of anger and seek help ..instead of letting out all your frustration on someone's valid post

Dont get involved, dont get involved, dont get involved.........in with the good, out with the bad & relaxxxxxxxxxx...............

F*ck it.................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKRyIpNL_T0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZXUslo4VzU

There ya go ya f**kers............can ya dance to dem..???

And if ya aint feelin this ya dead.........

Remenber when Clarkie dropped this on a Saturday Night, main room, prime time Cleethorpes Weekender & it took the roof off, it had of course rocked the Xover dance floors for some time prior to that, but WOW.......that cleggy reaction was summat else & we all had a smile........

Russ

Edited November 26, 201113 yr by Russ Vickers

And then of course you have this...........

Dancin yet ???

Russ

Any of those wishy washy enough for you.........

Russ

Pure Xover Class..........

Russ

Wow..........my Saturday night just got a whole lot better in Baghdad listening to them.......I await the pearls of wisdom from those that think they dont like Xover, although we all know some would argue with them selves in the mirror.......

Best Russ

Is there anybody there.............

Russ

Is there anybody there.............

Russ

Russ ...you really don't need to bother with the clips mate,those who know ..know ..flogging a dead horse trying to persuade people with blinkers on .

Just enjoy it while you can ,and frequent the right places when you can cos without your support they'll disappear for good

didn't know the subject was such a sore point.

the crossover stuff people have posted up on here, im not that into. But definately respect it, im just into the more upbeat stuff.

Pedestrian Northern Soul some may say.

and the likes of Jimmy Bo Horne - i cant speak, Ruby Andrews - Just loving you, Martha Reeves - No one there, to name a few tunes that i would class as slow to mid tempo tunes and they ram a dance floor at most venues, is that different cos they are known and are the defo better than every single crossover tune known to man

Any of those wishy washy enough for you.........

Russ

oh you gone and done it now Russ you have ruined the ideoligy that crossover is shite when all this time peeps have been dancing to it without realising for all those years :lol:

didn't know the subject was such a sore point.

the crossover stuff people have posted up on here, im not that into. But definately respect it, im just into the more upbeat stuff.

It's not so much that it's a sore point, Leeham, it's more a reflection of the undefined nature of 'Northern Soul' scene as a whole. There are and never will be any clear cut definitions of what 'Northern Soul' is (or any supposed genres or sub genres associated with it and everyone has a unique point of view).

My own definition of 'crossover' is very simple: to me it's just soul music that 'crosses over' decades, styles or genres. Soul recorded in the 60s that has a feel of the 70s to it, for example. Or early 70s recordings that sound as if they might have been recorded in the late 60s, but you just can't be sure which side of the 60s/70s divide it comes from.

The thing is, when referring to Northern Soul, people often use the terms 60s and 70s as if they were clearly defined and entirely separate musical forms. Of course, the reality is completely different. When the clock ticked from 1969 to 1970, the musical styles of the old decade did not just stop. On the 1st of January 1970, musicians didn't just say "Hey, we better stop with that old 60s shit and start playing 70s now." On the contrary, many aspects prominent in 70s soul can first be heard in the recordings of the late 60s.

Music evolves & styles evolve, but it happens more slowly than people sometimes realise. Styles and influences cross over - from one record label to another; from one year to the next; from one city to another; from one decade to the next. To me that's true 'crossover'. Relative to the 'Northern Soul' scene, the term applies more specifically to the blending late 60s and early 70s styles and flavours. And that is all...

Note: the opinions expressed here are merely those of the poster and should not be taken as binding, conclusive or legal in any way. If in doubt, consult a qualified Northern Soul expert. No, on the other hand, don't. It's far better to make up your own mind.

and the likes of Jimmy Bo Horne - i cant speak, Ruby Andrews - Just loving you, Martha Reeves - No one there, to name a few tunes that i would class as slow to mid tempo tunes and they ram a dance floor at most venues, is that different cos they are known and are the defo better than every single crossover tune known to man

Im not decrying it, I just prefer more uptempo music is all. And no I dont dance to the three you mentioned its a bit of a standing joke in my household (particularly Martha Reeves) My lady gets up to dance to that and I sit down lol.. I listen to them I just dont dance to them, thats the difference. And Russ, while I appreciate the merits of the few you posted and some are decent tunes, I would stay in my seat until uptempo 100 mph came on, Somethings wrong, Lay this burden down etc. Now thats what I like to dance to.As I am on the downward slope now I have to be selective. If the good lord came to take me and St Peter asked me what was the last song I was dancing to I would like it to have been a stomper, I would feel a bit miffed if it was Ruby Andrews. New thread idea possibly. But I will repeat, I can and do listen to what you term "crossover". Blinkers or no blinkers. For me its all about what pulls you on to the floor, and gets my feet a movin.

Edited November 27, 201113 yr by Marky Tee

Im not decrying it, I just prefer more uptempo music is all. And no I dont dance to the three you mentioned its a bit of a standing joke in my household (particularly Martha Reeves) My lady gets up to dance to that and I sit down lol.. I listen to them I just dont dance to them, thats the difference. And Russ, while I appreciate the merits of the few you posted and some are decent tunes, I would stay in my seat until uptempo 100 mph came on, Somethings wrong, Lay this burden down etc. Now thats what I like to dance to.As I am on the downward slope now I have to be selective. If the good lord came to take me and St Peter asked me what was the last song I was dancing to I would like it to have been a stomper, I would feel a bit miffed if it was Ruby Andrews. New thread idea possibly. But I will repeat, I can and do listen to what you term "crossover". Blinkers or no blinkers. For me its all about what pulls you on to the floor, and gets my feet a movin.

Hi Marky, it wasnt directed at you personall as but more of a sweeping statement of all them knockers of anything other than Oldies who tend to say things like, its all about the tempo but then the next minute they are up dancing to a midtempo tune but thats ok cos they like that one its the exception and believe me it does happen cos i watch out for those and as soon as they dance to anything other than uptempo im on them like a rash pointing out what they just did

Its easy for peole to knock what they dont know but most of the time thats just it they just dont know, nothing wrong with not liking stuff we all have our ones we cant stand, me my biggest durge is Bobby Bland - Shoes it gives me heart burn yet rams the dance floor at most if not all soul events its played at im lucky really i like a bit of everything and a lot of certain stuff but dont like everything that is out there and loved by others, i only like a bit of rnb but to slag rnb off cos most dont do it for me would be a bit thibck of me cos the next record i would dance to would be rnb oh not a lover of latin either but love Harvey Averne funny world of soul eh

Hi Marky, it wasnt directed at you personall as but more of a sweeping statement of all them knockers of anything other than Oldies who tend to say things like, its all about the tempo but then the next minute they are up dancing to a midtempo tune but thats ok cos they like that one its the exception and believe me it does happen cos i watch out for those and as soon as they dance to anything other than uptempo im on them like a rash pointing out what they just did

Its easy for peole to knock what they dont know but most of the time thats just it they just dont know, nothing wrong with not liking stuff we all have our ones we cant stand, me my biggest durge is Bobby Bland - Shoes it gives me heart burn yet rams the dance floor at most if not all soul events its played at im lucky really i like a bit of everything and a lot of certain stuff but dont like everything that is out there and loved by others, i only like a bit of rnb but to slag rnb off cos most dont do it for me would be a bit thibck of me cos the next record i would dance to would be rnb oh not a lover of latin either but love Harvey Averne funny world of soul eh

Aye tis indeed a funny world. And should I ever decide to strut my stuff to a bit of crossover I will keep me eyes peeled for the flying Bear. Shoes? I bloody love it lol. I had that on repeat play lying by the pool in Tenerife, but didnt tap my toes to it. And I was reading Slash's auto-biography as well, now that was surreal.

Edited November 27, 201113 yr by Marky Tee

could crossover be seen as moving with the times? such as including disco from the 70s?

Russ ...you really don't need to bother with the clips mate,those who know ..know ..flogging a dead horse trying to persuade people with blinkers on .

Just enjoy it while you can ,and frequent the right places when you can cos without your support they'll disappear for good

No, no, no, no, no. You were doing fine. You had been courteous and receptive to courtesy. You had established trust with the embarrassing truth about off thread posting and now this ham-handed segue into your own beliefs. (He tuts reproachfully) It won't do. Blinkers, dead horses.............. dont think the original thread was about matters equestrian either.I agree a lot of the postings dont actually answer the original thread. But as soon as you accused people of blinkers etc you lost credibility you gained from your earlier post, when I actually nodded and accepted you had a valid point. Apologies for borrowing Thomas Harris' work

Edited November 27, 201113 yr by Marky Tee

Anyone know when the term crossover started getting used?.A lot of the above tunes are mid tempo/down tempo northern end of the night style closing tunes.I wonder if it was a ploy by UK dealers to get rid of all that old dead stock.Darrell Banks and the Nurons aren't bad records.....but to my ears they have always been mid tempo northern.(Darrell Banks being an end of set record).Ruby Andrews/Darrell Banks/Ace Spectrum are the new 3 before 8.....should i say 3 before 11 (bar closing) and probably the precursors to a bit of okey cokeying hands together stuff.When did deejays stop digging for stompers/uptempo stuff and started plundering everyone elses genres...including mediocre mid tempo and dreary b sides/reggae for god sakes/mid sixties latin novelty pop/boogaloo/old Keb style deep funk etc I could go on.It seems northern soul is so diluted it is losing its identity.I hear the term "open minded" all the time on here.I'm not interested in having "my mind opened" to other styles of music at a northern do.I can go to mod clubs to listen to latin,go to JOJOs to hear funk/go to numerous clubs to hear reggae/listen to my tapes for bad b sides.I'm not purely into oldies either before that gets slung at me....oldies and great uptempo new ones are what i want to hear but it seems a lot of deejays are too busy searching out "open minded" other styles of music.

Edited November 27, 201113 yr by wiggyflat

8ts - Stafford & Thorne, plus others. If you had been there you would understand . If you dont like it fair play, but dont show your ignorance by slagging it off..............again, awaiting the pearls of wisdom .

Best Russ

8ts - Stafford & Thorne, plus others. If you had been there you would understand . If you dont like it fair play, but dont show your ignorance by slagging it off..............again, awaiting the pearls of wisdom .

Best Russ

I will have an opinion on what i believe to be bad music.As I said Darrell Banks/Nurons/Ruby Andrews are all good records.Dolly Gillmore is terrible.

Edited November 27, 201113 yr by wiggyflat

I will have an opinion on what i believe to be bad music.As I said Darrell Banks/Nurons/Ruby Andrews are all good records.Dolly Gillmore is terrible.

I would agree that DG is a record that needs a fair amount of love & understanding, but the the things that probably make it bad for you, make it great for me.......the off key notes are just soooo much a part of what makes it great & of course t'other side is a stormer. Anyway if you read the post, it quite clearly states that I appreciate your opinions, even though I may disagree with them, what I am pointing out is the derisive way you describe a genre of music you have little understanding of.

Thats the end of it for me, go & argue with some one else, as that is pretty much what you & others mainly do on SS at the moment..........

Russ

Crssover Soul was a term coined in an old edition of Voices From The Shadows, from about 1992 and was used to describe soul from the period following the demise of the defining/classic HDH Motown sound in about 1968 and the establishment of the defining/classic Philly sound in about 1972.. I'm not saying thats the only way to define it but that was the first definiion I recall.

Would it be a better idea to start a thread for each specific genre from the northern umbrella?

Just a thought,

H

can things with a 7ts Philly influence be considered crossover? Is tempo an essential element in the defining of crossover? answers on a post card please.

can things with a 7ts Philly influence be considered crossover? Is tempo an essential element in the defining of crossover? answers on a post card please.

good question Geese, dont know the answer but to me its a sound not a tempo but mostly Crossover is associated with a tempo, mid tempo dreary dross thats just b sides of Northern records and records given in soul packs that aint good enough, nothing to do with the fact some people call them soulful and they like soul aswell as northern soul and rare soul and funky soul and rnb soul and philly soul and modern soul and r-soul sorry i run out of post cards