Got a slight issue with one of these I've just sold

Its an issue and Its got a large 45 but no stamped in matrix

According to my research there isnt a bootleg of this just a reissue with a small 45.

Also in Tim browns guide he states that not all OKEH originals have a stamped matrix?

Any info appreciated

I have over 250 Okeh Promo's

Nearly all with stamped matrix's

There are a few with scratched matrix's but only a couple

My Too Late has a stamped one !

Andy

Hello Steve

My 'Too Late' would appear to be of the same description as yours. I've had it for many, many years and bought it as an original.

Scratched matrix in deadwax though as you can see on the scan. Now hoping it's not a bootleg!!!

Simon

Edited January 31, 201213 yr by Brooky

Hello Steve

My 'Too Late' would appear to be of the same description as yours. I've had it for many, many years and bought it as an original.

Scratched matrix in deadwax though as you can see on the scan. Now hoping it's not a bootleg!!!

Simon

Nothing suggests to me that it's a bootleg.

Thanks for the replies

The record in question is identical to brooky's scan, the person who bought it has queried it on the basis that it no matrix stamp.

Is it a styrene or vinyl copy, I have 2 that are hand etched type..... Major Harris and a Major Lance.

Edited January 31, 201213 yr by Prophonics 2029

Thanks for the replies

The record in question is identical to brooky's scan, the person who bought it has queried it on the basis that it no matrix stamp.

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My scanned copy came with the picture sleeve. Clearly it does not follow that that the sleeve was with the 45 originally. However it might be a clue? As you can see my copy is styrene. I note on the 'Okeh' discussion which is currently open the suggestion that Okeh bootlegs were predominantly on vinyl. I wouldn't know that personally. I am merely repeating the words of other posters.

Yeah the record in question is styrene

Major Harris was quiet late in the pressing 1969 and a copy of Hum Huhuhu huM both demos. Intersting a syrene without a stamp.

I have a couple of Okeh big 45 styrene orig with scratched in numbers,also got

a big 45 promo on vinyl with machine stamp..Williams & Watson 45 looks okay to me.

Dave f....

hi to steve its vinyl just had a light behind it never mind its not for djing with just replacing a load of records that were stolen,i know who it is ill catch him one day

Got a slight issue with one of these I've just sold

Its an issue and Its got a large 45 but no stamped in matrix

According to my research there isnt a bootleg of this just a reissue with a small 45.

Also in Tim browns guide he states that not all OKEH originals have a stamped matrix?

Any info appreciated

iv had about 4 copies this year non of them were stamped all orig

I used to have a Major Harris Demo on vinyl with no stamped matrix only scratched and a moulded "in" not "on" label, only one i have ever seen like it.

Got a slight issue with one of these I've just sold

Its an issue and Its got a large 45 but no stamped in matrix

According to my research there isnt a bootleg of this just a reissue with a small 45.

Also in Tim browns guide he states that not all OKEH originals have a stamped matrix?

Any info appreciated

 

If it's in styrene with a stuck on label and a large 45 on the left hand side then it's an original.  If it's in vinyl with a moulded label then it's a boot. Here's another clue,

on the original the matrix reads like this  :  zsp-117384           1c   also at 180° from the matrix there's some tiny markings, look like t111

The bootleg reads like this                      :      zsp  117384     1c        no  -  between the letters and numbers and the 1c is closer to the numbers, no tiny t111

 

Have been going through all my Okeh records this afternoon, both my styrene "Don't want to discuss it" and "Quitter never wins" have matrix scratched in them. All Little Richard and Williams & Watson were Los Angeles recordings it is probable that this was sub contracted work. Thing is in John Manship's book it states that there must be a stamped matrix and you know what happens then, everybody takes this as 100% fact, even John says often he's not all knowing. Whats' also interesting is the 2 different designs of label; One with extra credits on the right hand side. 

The scan on far right shows the matrix is scratched.

Edited June 3, 201410 yr by Chris L

If it's in styrene with a stuck on label and a large 45 on the left hand side then it's an original.  If it's in vinyl with a moulded label then it's a boot. Here's another clue,

on the original the matrix reads like this  :  zsp-117384           1c   also at 180° from the matrix there's some tiny markings, look like t111

The bootleg reads like this                      :      zsp  117384     1c        no  -  between the letters and numbers and the 1c is closer to the numbers, no tiny t111

 

Have been going through all my Okeh records this afternoon, both my styrene "Don't want to discuss it" and "Quitter never wins" have matrix scratched in them. All Little Richard and Williams & Watson were Los Angeles recordings it is probable that this was sub contracted work. Things is in John Manship's book it states that there must be a stamped matrix and you know what happens then, everybody takes this as 100% fact, even John says often he's not all knowing. Whats' also interesting is the 2 different designs of label; One with extra credits on the right hand side. 

Williams Watson Too Late.jpgWilliams Watson Too Late5.jpgWilliams Watson Too Late14.jpg

The one on far right shows the matrix is scratched.

 

I'm not convinced there is a vinyl boot of this, not on purple Okeh anyway.  I don't remember ever seeing one.  There's certainly a 1974 reissue with the small 45.

I'm not convinced there is a vinyl boot of this, not on purple Okeh anyway.  I don't remember ever seeing one.  There's certainly a 1974 reissue with the small 45.

 

You could well be right Pete, there is a white demo vinyl boot of "Don't to discuss it"..............I have one, I also have a white demo styrene original, both with the differences in matrix's as described above. 

Just come back from the States with three Okeh white demos - Too Late matrix is hand etched in contrast to Major Lance YDWMNM and Vibrations Soul A Go-Go, both stamped. All three have a big 45. Got an issue of Too Late somewhere but buried too deep to dig out. Sold Too Late in a picture sleeve at Wigan for a fiver in 76 or 77 following the British release - not the shrewdest of moves looking back. You are absolutely right to query the Okeh issues as there are plenty of dodgy ones around.

I have over 250 Okeh Promo's

Nearly all with stamped matrix's

There are a few with scratched matrix's but only a couple

My Too Late has a stamped one !

Andy

A mouth watering sight Andy, but how many are actually good Northern dance tunes?

Just come back from the States with three Okeh white demos - Too Late matrix is hand etched in contrast to Major Lance YDWMNM and Vibrations Soul A Go-Go, both stamped. All three have a big 45. Got an issue of Too Late somewhere but buried too deep to dig out. Sold Too Late in a picture sleeve at Wigan for a fiver in 76 or 77 following the British release - not the shrewdest of moves looking back. You are absolutely right to query the Okeh issues as there are plenty of dodgy ones around.

 

The Chicago pressings are all stamped (gulp!...........I think) I've never seen a scratched, they seem all to be Los Angeles issues.

 HI ALL.... Are you Okeh  I hope so, this is ideal info for collectors, enjoy DAVE K

 

Edited June 4, 201410 yr by dthedrug

I got a styrene issue of "TOO LATE" with an etched number in the run out groove and a 'promo' sticker on the other side, also got a Clara Wood demo from the same place in California, both mint and in Company sleeves.

It is a fallacy to assume that all OKEH records were stamped, IMHO.

I got a styrene issue of "TOO LATE" with an etched number in the run out groove and a 'promo' sticker on the other side, also got a Clara Wood demo from the same place in California, both mint and in Company sleeves. It is a fallacy to assume that all OKEH records were stamped, IMHO.

 

I agree and will send John Manship a copy of this thread , maybe he can alter his book when it get re-printed.