Casually searching Popsike for something else, and I came across this. Evidently sold on Ebay in June. Didn't know it was released on any other label than Tuff.

Anyone know anything about this issue? Legal? Re-issue? Bootleg, etc?

https://www.popsike.com/Chicago-Soul-E-Rodney-Jones-RB-Time-Pts-1-2-on-Charisma-418-Chicago-WVON-DJ/251090860908.html

my theory is that the brown was first because for the second run they ran out of brown ink and had to use the plentiful black

I don't know which came first, but neither the black print or brown print are bootlegs.

As far as I know, the Bobby Copney 45 was the first release on TUFF which utilised the plain yellow/orange label. Previous releases from TUFF 402-413 had been on a multicoloured label with black print. I've only seen Bobby Copney with brown print on the label, so perhaps the following three 45s were also first released with brown print, but I don't know. Does Bobby Copney exist with black print?

There seems to have been some confusion as whether to use brown or black print on the new plain yellow/orange label design and at least three of the releases exist with both brown and black print. Perhaps those three that exists with both black & brown print indeed were pressed slightly later due to demand, but have in mind that TUFF 419-421 exclusively seems to exist with black print (please, correct me if I'm wrong), and then 422 is again available with both black and brown print on the revived design that was earlier used for TUFF 369-401. So the time-span in which this all can have happened is limited.

I've seen the following releases with:

MULTICOLOURED LABEL WITH BLACK PRINT

Tuff 413 - Landy McNeil - Hang Your Soul On Me / Show Me - 1965

YELLOW LABEL WITH BROWN PRINT

Tuff 414 - Bobby Copney - Love Au-Go-Go / Ain't No Good - 1965

YELLOW LABEL WITH BROWN or BLACK PRINT

Tuff 415 - Bobby Treetop -So Sweet, So Satisfying / Valentine - 1965

Tuff 417 - Bobby Treetop - Wait Till I Get To Know Ya / Valentine - 1965

Tuff 418 - E. Rodney Jones - R & B Time (Part 1) / R & B Time (Part 2) - 1965

WHITE PROMO ONLY (DOES AN ISSUE EXIST?)

Tuff 416 - Ronnie Savoy - Pitfall / On The Spanish Side - 1965

YELLOW LABEL WITH BLACK PRINT

Tuff 419 - Little Joe Roman -When You're Lonesome (Come On Home) / We Got A Love - ?

Tuff 420 - Vicki Anderson - I Can't Stop Loving You / I Got A Good Man (And I Know It) - 1967

Tuff 421 - E. Rodney Jones - Peace Of Mind / Do The Thang - ?

REVIVED "ROUND LOGO" LABEL WITH BROWN or BLACK PRINT

Tuff 422 - Mickey & Larry & The Exciters - My One Chance To Make It / Reaper Of Rain - ?

Edited August 15, 201212 yr by Sebastian

Is it really upsetting that someone didn't know the answer to what text color was first? I don't know.

There has been some very informative posts in this thread, along with a lot of interesting assumptions; much like the assumption that I found it 'upsetting' that the question wasn't answered

'Surprised' that it wasn't mentioned before my post as there seemed to be questions over re-issues and 'to meet UK demand' - and as I said, some very informative and interesting posts. .... so yes, surprised would be more apt I think to find that it wasn't mentioned before and that the question went unanswered; especially it light of the in-depth facts & guesswork, one would have thought the subject of the differing Logos would have had a mention

Anyway, enough of the petty assumptions and back to the thread.....

_{My copy}

I went on Mr Manship's site and this is what he has to say:

"a timeless Northern Soul classic - first press with TUFF logo and lettering in black. Seldom seen for sale."

^{p.s. I was also surprised at the price tag on there}

this guy is advertising the BROWN logo as a '1970's repress' https://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290670786006&item=290670786006&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466#ht_865wt_1163

I personally have no idea but would be interested if anyone did know the facts behind the logo colours

this guy is advertising the BROWN logo as a '1970's repress' https://www.ebay.com/...6#ht_865wt_1163

I personally have no idea but would be interested if anyone did know the facts behind the logo colours

So's this bloke but at 4 times the price!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-RODNEY-JONES-R-B-TIME-PART-1-c-w-PART-2-TIMELESS-CLASSIC-LISTEN-/290701101492?pt=UK_Records&hash=item43af22c9b4#ht_576wt_1063

So's this bloke but at 4 times the price!

https://www.ebay.co.u...4#ht_576wt_1063

but lets be fair...he is cheap on his postage

There has been some very informative posts in this thread, along with a lot of interesting assumptions; much like the assumption that I found it 'upsetting' that the question wasn't answered

I apologize for misreading the motivation of and emotion in your followup post asking why nobody had responded to your previous post.

Those two brown logo copies are indeed represses. The best way to tell without seeing the deadwax info is the weight of the type used on the credits. Both the ebay copies have the title / artist info in a light weight font. The originals (both with black and brown logos) have the title and artist in much heavier weight of type.

I'm calling these later copies 're-presses' but they might well be bootlegs for the UK scene. I don't know, but it's worth bearing in mind that Spector still to this day retains a presence in the music business with a relaunched or continuing Tuff:

https://www.tuffrecords.com/

There are Treetop's in the US,mainly in the Dakota and Oregon states.Could be of American Indian origin,but why use that name,unless there's a family connection.?

There's also one Robert Copney who lived in NY '1945 - 2005.

Edited August 15, 201212 yr by KevH

Those two brown logo copies are indeed represses. The best way to tell without seeing the deadwax info is the weight of the type used on the credits. Both the ebay copies have the title / artist info in a light weight font. The originals (both with black and brown logos) have the title and artist in much heavier weight of type.

Excatly.

ORIGINAL:

RE-PRESS

The typefaces used for the credits on the original copies are Tempo Bold Condensed and Tempo Black. Basically a version of Futura designed specifically for the Ludlow typesetting system. The repress/bootleg more than likely uses a conventional version of Futura.

I apologize for misreading the motivation of and emotion in your followup post asking why nobody had responded to your previous post.

with the depth this topic went into I thought the previous post would have been of some interest..... I thought it to be relevant to the discussion .... but obviously not

Edited August 15, 201212 yr by mikecook