Being that most of our heroes came from pretty poor backgrounds and found that they had a talent for music that could lift them, did any of them ever make any real money??

Obviously I'm excluding the real rare stuff that sold 1 copy or less.

I'm thinking more along the lines of The Dells , Jackie Wilson, Four Tops etc people that had some pretty sizable hits along the way.

As its fairly well known that label owners and managers during the 60's and beyond were quite ,err, "shrewd" businessmen.

Just curious

Tony

Edited February 1, 200619 yr by tonyp

That's a great question Tonyp,

I can say with certainty for Jimmy Gresham and Willie Gresham

the answer is NO.

Carla

Can't really comment much on Jackie Wilson when he was alive, but I do recall the guy who used to run Colin Bee pressings bought the rights to his back catalogue for the literal equivalent of bugger all after his J.Ws death. They then released "Reet Petite" which went to No1 in UK charts & made a small fortune for themselves. Unlike Jackie Wilson's descendants.

Col.

John manship....

Can't really comment much on Jackie Wilson when he was alive, but I do recall the guy who used to run Colin Bee pressings bought the rights to his back catalogue for the literal equivalent of bugger all after his J.Ws death. They then released "Reet Petite" which went to No1 in UK charts & made a small fortune for themselves. Unlike Jackie Wilson's descendants.

Col.

When he was alive Jackie Wilson was, alledgedly, held out of a window by his ankles until he agreed to re-sign his Brunswick contract. Can't imagine that the terms of this contract would have been very favourable!

When he was alive Jackie Wilson was, alledgedly, held out of a window by his ankles until he agreed to re-sign his Brunswick contract. Can't imagine that the terms of this contract would have been very favourable!

Do you think that might have been the inspiration behind Higher & Higher!

I wonder if the contract included medical insurance?

Being that most of our heroes came from pretty poor backgrounds and found that they had a talent for music that could lift them, did any of them ever make any real money??Tony

Well H.B.Barnum lives in Bel-Air LA his next door neighbour is Bobby Womak & he is a Major Share Holder of the LA Lakers Basketball Team....so my guess is he has done OK....

Jon Buck

Well H.B.Barnum lives in Bel-Air LA his next door neighbour is Bobby Womak & he is a Major Share Holder of the LA Lakers Basketball Team....so my guess is he has done OK....

Jon Buck

Are you sure he didn't make all of his money from circuses?

Are you sure he didn't make all of his money from circuses?

good one that....I don't suppose arranging The Nelson Mandela concert @ Wembley in 1988 counts as a Circus.... by the way Barnum's Circus was founded by P.T. Barnum in 1872 & he was White so maybe no connection....

Jon Buck

good one that....I don't suppose arranging The Nelson Mandela concert @ Wembley in 1988 counts as a Circus.... by the way Barnum's Circus was founded by P.T. Barnum in 1872 & he was White so maybe no connection....

Jon Buck

I stand corrected & chastised.

I stand corrected & chastised.

How much did that cost you?

Expensive round our way - but at tleast they use the Cheese-grater with aplomb.

Do you think that might have been the inspiration behind Higher & Higher!

I reckon you're on to something there. Anybody know anything about the contract negotiations of J.J. Barnes ("Please Let Me In") or David and the Giants ("Ten Miles High")?

How much did that cost you?

Expensive round our way - but at tleast they use the Cheese-grater with aplomb.

I don't get called Smartarse for nothing.

you don't get called smart arse at all!

Well H.B.Barnum lives in Bel-Air LA his next door neighbour is Bobby Womak & he is a Major Share Holder of the LA Lakers Basketball Team....so my guess is he has done OK....

Jon Buck

He earned his money the smart way producing and writing songs which is of course where Womack got his money too. Performers don't normally get rich

I think the Temptations DVD paints a true story of who made the money in those days, for sure it was not really the artists.

Its a bit like an apprenticeship, you get paid low money until you wise up and pass the test. Gwen Owens was flogging her record collection at the LA gig 04, so not really very flush I would presume, and to make it worse the lady did not have much worth anything anyway. Still, she was a Queen for the day and made a few bucks flogging photos etc.

Ed

I've read that Otis Redding actually died on a crash in his own airplane...

so I think he had some bucks...

you don't get called smart arse at all!

Oh yes I do!

...... by Pikeys Dog, when he's angry with me.

Col.

When he was alive Jackie Wilson was, alledgedly, held out of a window by his ankles until he agreed to re-sign his Brunswick contract. Can't imagine that the terms of this contract would have been very favourable!

Mmmmm me's thinks this is urban myth, as a keen follower of the knoble art, jackie Wilson was actually a Golden Gloves champion, with a knockout punch and was quite feared, he once stated his voice was probably enhanced by his broken nose. ,

If it is True they must have been big big buggers

Geeooooordie

Edited February 6, 200619 yr by geordiejohnson

I've read that Otis Redding actually died on a crash in his own airplane...

so I think he had some bucks...

Otis wrote and produced and had an honest manager.

Jackie Wilson earned his money from live appearances and his manger had mob connections.

I've seen Lenny Harkins flying at several scottish venues !

hammy

Mmmmm me's thinks this is urban myth, as a keen follower of the knoble art, jackie Wilson was actually a Golden Gloves champion, with a knockout punch and was quite feared, he once stated his voice was probably enhanced by his broken nose. ,

If it is True they must have been big big buggers

Geeooooordie

Hi Geordie,

the "being held out of a window by the ankles" story comes from Robert Pruter's book "Chicago Soul". According to RP it wasn't just Brunswick doing the negotiations but also the mob. So, the ankle holders probably were quite chunky! Just out of interest do you know which gym JW fought out of? Does it still exist?

Martin

Mmmmm me's thinks this is urban myth, as a keen follower of the knoble art, jackie Wilson was actually a Golden Gloves champion, with a knockout punch and was quite feared, he once stated his voice was probably enhanced by his broken nose. ,

If it is True they must have been big big buggers

Geeooooordie

Twas the mob that was all over the place at Brunswick. You should read the book "Hit men" an excellent insight into the music business and the Mafia influence over it in the 60s and 70s.

As for HB I think he made a lot of money when he was with The Osmonds.

Just done some digging around in the American Boxing Archives and found a JACKIE WILSON who fought at welterweight from Las Angales California,between 1937 & 1949.Seems like this guy was pretty good he had 90 fights in total with 65 wins,20 losses,& 5 draws.Could this be the same JACKIE WILSON?,the weight sounds about right for him about 11st.

Just found this aswell.

By 1975, Jackie Wilson was nothing more than an oldies act. Despite one of the most powerful voices and hyperactive physiques in the business, he was no longer able to put his name on a hit record. Sure, some awe-struck kids like Prince Rogers Nelson and Michael Jackson would still go to his gigs (and take notes). But the man's career had to be put on life support by the ubiquitous Dick Clark, who featured him in a package tour called the Good Ol' Rock 'n' Roll Revue. In September 1975, Jackie slid out onstage at Camden, New Jersey and kept his audience burning with high-energy versions of hits like "I'll Be Satisfied", "Whispers", and "(Your Love Keeps Lifting Me) Higher and Higher". Towards the end of his climactic signature tune, "Lonely Teardrops", Jack leapt high into the air, and fell abruptly backwards. "My heart is cryin', cryin'" -- those were his last words. His head hit the stage with a loud crack. Dick Clark rushed to his side, yelled "Is there a doctor in here?" to the stunned audience, then began sobbing over the unconscious singer's motionless body. Jackie Wilson blinked twice, and rolled his eyes up in his head. He remained in a coma for eight years until, in January 1984, he stopped taking nourishment and passed away.

Sometimes the worst tragedies are the ones that creep forward slowly. Jackie Wilson -- a man who could throw a punch like Sonny Liston, who could out-sing and out-dance the entire Motown stable, whose enthusiasm for food and sex were epic -- he spent his last eight years a vegetable. But the bigger tragedy was his career itself. Just like Sonny Liston, Jackie's gifts -- his voice and body -- were owned by the mob.

Jackie was a banger from the outset, and his entire singing career is best viewed in this light. The shifty teenage pugilist who would enthrall the rough wine-soaked members of Detroit's Shaker Gang with soaring renditions of "Danny Boy". In exchange, they would jump in and protect his pretty face when the fists started flying He thought with his fists, and his dick, allegedly getting a score of girls pregnant by the time he turned sixteen. Running and fighting, and occasionally stopping to sing, he became a local hero, and indeed the pride of the Shaker Gang. He was in and out of jail, but only when he landed in the Lansing Correctional Institute at age sixteen would he take boxing seriously. Joe Louis was Detroit's hometown hero, and countless boys were yearning to follow in his footsteps. The connection between music and boxing was always very intimate in everyone's minds. Whenever people thought of Sonny Liston, they thought of his jumping rope to the tune of "Night Train" (always "Night Train"), a bigger and badder mess of footwork and jazz you had never seen. For years, Jackie Wilson claimed to have trained as a professional boxer, a competitor in the Detroit Golden Gloves, a welterweight champion, and finally (briefly) a pro boxer. He did box, yes. But according to Jack Douglas' exceptionally well-researched biography Jackie Wilson: The Man, The Music, The Mob, the stories of his welterweight championship, and of his brief pro career, were fictions. Still, boxing was always central to his identity, and it's easy to see why: it taught him to dance. By all accounts, the man couldn't dance a lick with a partner, and always fled the dance floor. But to see him glide out onstage, twirling, flipping, diving throwing the mike around without missing a note -- he was shadow-boxing for the masses. His body -- often quite drunk -- combined a precise, trained choreography with a stunning sense of physical intuition. He always seemed to know exactly how to manipulate an audience with his movements. The girls saw it was time to start tearing off his clothes once he leaned back, back, back into his rope-a-dope until he was practically laying supine on the stage. Elvis Presley watched and learned. So did James Brown.

Martin I stand corrected he was semi-lynched by the mob, but for a man that could fight as well as he did...well they were big Big BIG Buggers who manhandled him

Wally The last post is great Ive never seen that and is a nice run in to the boxing info i have of him and yes your first post is the same man, so im not sure why the "well researched Book" by jack douglas failed to unearth the info.

Thanks for posting those two up

Great reading

Geeooooordie

Edited February 7, 200619 yr by geordiejohnson