I'm interested i this question of whether prices are or are not coming down.

A Silhouettes, for instance, has just been reduced in sales and it seems to me a lot of other items aren't selling. In the last three months, I've sold a Jimmy Wallace, a Hy-Tones (YDEKMN) and a Masqueraders (Same Thing) and none of them achieved the sort of money I think they would two years ago.

I think this is a good thing (strangely) because obviously it means other records I want are going to get cheaper.

However, the dealers seem to be disagreeing.

John Manship, on here, says things are 'kickin'' and that prices are good.

Pete Smith says the opposite in a post a week or two back.

I'm not saying either is lying, or wrong - this may just reflect their own experience (mine is the same as Pete's, mind you).

I wondered what the experience of other people on here was? Many of you are dealers yourselves but others just like me flog the odd record now and then. We're most of us buyers, too.

So, what's your personal experience? Up or down?

Vote anonymously in the poll or make your comments here, up to you

Edited March 14, 200619 yr by Dan

Various factors to take into account and the rarest of the rareties will still command high prices, but the less rare stuff that has been very overpriced last few years is coming down and a lot of people who bought them are selling on again. And still trying to get a mark up on what they paid. So the records aren't selling. Three years ago we wouldn't have seen sellers having to discount records to shift them. Now to shift say a Seven Souls or a Tangeers you couldn't charge 2/3 of what they were fetching a few years back, could you?

John M has a very professional and wide reaching network so he can probably attain top dollar, but records can be found cheaper elsewhere if you can be bothered looking (not a criticism of JM, I think his service is generally excellent).

So everyone, get discounting, and send me your sales llists first for providing this useful advice.

In MY opinion the good crossover and 70's stuff seems to be getting more and more expensive!

Many of the good tunes are going way past "book" price, even when there are several copies up for sale.

Can't comment on the big value 60's stuff... so I won't

I'm interested i this question of whether prices are or are not coming down.

A Silhouettes, for instance, has just been reduced in sales and it seems to me a lot of other items aren't selling. In the last three months, I've sold a Jimmy Wallace, a Hy-Tones (YDEKMN) and a Masqueraders (Same Thing) and none of them achieved the sort of money I think they would two years ago.

I think this is a good thing (strangely) because obviously it means other records I want are going to get cheaper.

However, the dealers seem to be disagreeing.

John Manship, on here, says things are 'kickin'' and that prices are good.

Pete Smith says the opposite in a post a week or two back.

I'm not saying either is lying, or wrong - this may just reflect their own experience (mine is the same as Pete's, mind you).

I wondered what the experience of other people on here was? Many of you are dealers yourselves but others just like me flog the odd record now and then. We're most of us buyers, too.

So, what's your personal experience? Up or down?

Vote anonymously in the poll or make your comments here, up to you

I have to say I was very surprised to see John say that.

This is the worst time I've ever known for selling records, and it's not like I haven't had any decent ones lately.

It's post winter recession and perhaps it will pick up again after Prestatyn maybe.

Still getting pipped to the post on Ebay though. :angry: Doesn't seem to be a shortage of bidders.

Still getting pipped to the post on Ebay though. :angry: Doesn't seem to be a shortage of bidders.

Bidding on the wrong stuff Ian, Hardly any one wants to bid on what im bidding on, Its either a load of crap or they dont know it

Various factors to take into account and the rarest of the rareties will still command high prices, but the less rare stuff that has been very overpriced last few years is coming down and a lot of people who bought them are selling on again. And still trying to get a mark up on what they paid. So the records aren't selling. Three years ago we wouldn't have seen sellers having to discount records to shift them. Now to shift say a Seven Souls or a Tangeers you couldn't charge 2/3 of what they were fetching a few years back, could you?

John M has a very professional and wide reaching network so he can probably attain top dollar, but records can be found cheaper elsewhere if you can be bothered looking (not a criticism of JM, I think his service is generally excellent).

So everyone, get discounting, and send me your sales llists first for providing this useful advice.

Stuart makes an excellent point. A few years ago the prices were increasing at an incredible rate. I wonder how many people bought records just to hang on for a year and hope to make £100+ profit. A kind of buy to let. As with the buy-to-let boom, the landlords found the market over subscribed, and now the record buyers are trying to shift their pieces and the market isnt there to the same degree. So instead of a profit, they are taking a small loss.

Who says the soul collecting scene isnt like the stock market?

I'm interested i this question of whether prices are or are not coming down.

A Silhouettes, for instance, has just been reduced in sales and it seems to me a lot of other items aren't selling. In the last three months, I've sold a Jimmy Wallace, a Hy-Tones (YDEKMN) and a Masqueraders (Same Thing) and none of them achieved the sort of money I think they would two years ago.

I think this is a good thing (strangely) because obviously it means other records I want are going to get cheaper.

However, the dealers seem to be disagreeing.

John Manship, on here, says things are 'kickin'' and that prices are good.

Pete Smith says the opposite in a post a week or two back.

I'm not saying either is lying, or wrong - this may just reflect their own experience (mine is the same as Pete's, mind you).

I wondered what the experience of other people on here was? Many of you are dealers yourselves but others just like me flog the odd record now and then. We're most of us buyers, too.

So, what's your personal experience? Up or down?

Vote anonymously in the poll or make your comments here, up to you

Records have always been discounted, it depends on cash flow of dealer, if he can hold out for 100% profit he will, sometimes he has to take 5%, it's called business, even Tesco's do it.

I suppose it's worth asking whether it is actually a good thing for everyone too. I know I said it is, and I also never plan to sell my records, but then at the back of your mind they're always there if you absolutely needed the dough. And that pile of dough may (or may not) be shrinking. There must be some older people thinking about cashing in and buying a villa in Spain instead??

Records have always been discounted, it depends on cash flow of dealer, if he can hold out for 100% profit he will, sometimes he has to take 5%, it's called business, even Tesco's do it.

yeh absolutely, that explains individual cases very well.

however, if no-one was prepared to pay 50p for a tin of beans, either heinz would reduce them to the point where people would buy them or heinz would go out of business because they couldn't reduce them to the point without their overheads and other costs sinking them. the question is whether that's happening across the piece, records-wise, not whether in the odd individual case a particular deal is being struck or not struck.

i appreciate there are no absolutes - no rrp - in record prices but is there a trend?

I have to say I was very surprised to see John say that.

This is the worst time I've ever known for selling records, and it's not like I haven't had any decent ones lately.

It's post winter recession and perhaps it will pick up again after Prestatyn maybe.

Peter,

It may be down to exposure.. one record you sold me last deal last week, you couldn't sell for £300 i sold it same day I listed it and had 3 other requests so i sold my excellent cond. copy for £275..to Sean Chapman. All i can say is last 1/4 was our best ever. The whole thing is now worldwide, in countries you wouldn't believe. I can't see how anything is deminishing in demand except for January / Febuary Credit Card bills slices the turnover down for obvious reasons....good quality vinyl is SO RARE I certainly don't see prices going down in such a vibrant market... blame the time of year not the market. Call me re: Bobby Paris Cameo promo..so's we can conclude the last deal.

John

yeh absolutely, that explains individual cases very well.

however, if no-one was prepared to pay 50p for a tin of beans, either heinz would reduce them to the point where people would buy them or heinz would go out of business because they couldn't reduce them to the point without their overheads and other costs sinking them. the question is whether that's happening across the piece, records-wise, not whether in the odd individual case a particular deal is being struck or not struck.

i appreciate there are no absolutes - no rrp - in record prices but is there a trend?

The big boys of record dealing JM for example can afford to hold onto an item to maximise his profit as he is moving records all the time, myself on the other hand, don't have the stock so to keep it fresh have to turn around records a lot quicker so I have to take what I can at times. Basically if the book price is £100 and I've picked it up for £40 then £70 sell price is fine by me, although I might try for the £100 initially. Also think that lots of records have turned up so supply outstripping demand on some items, market forces again at work.

Everything I want never seems to go down, always up

What would be interesting to know, is what kind of sales JM is booming in? lesser known cheaper stuff, his auctions? or £100-£500 more well known items?

Also lets face it John can afford to hold on to a record at top dollar even if it is for two years, he has the out lay for it,

You've only got to look on Pat Bradys site every week to see things on there that have been there for along time, or they get relisted at a later date (unless he has multiple copys of them records)

Dont forget you have to take the fact of we'er in a recession (dont care what any one says its a fact!) so most people are holding back on there spending of records, it all accounts for lower prices!

I couldn't care if the prices went right down there is items that i would never sell in my collection, and lets face it by the time i want to 'cash in' on my records lets say 30 years time if im still around then Is there going to be a market whatso ever!

Bidding on the wrong stuff Ian, Hardly any one wants to bid on what im bidding on, Its either a load of crap or they dont know it

You're not wrong mate. Have to start bidding on stuff I don't want in order to win a few. Like the Marv Johnson thing on Gordy that showed up this morning from California. Never heard of it. Like you say probably crap ...

Edited March 14, 200619 yr by Simsy

Peter,

It may be down to exposure..

Wouldn't say maybe about it John, Its deffinately down to that, You have a world wide reputation for record dealing so your market place is world wide. Its like just as an example Coca Cola is known world wide, where as 'fizz pop cola' (made up name for argument sake) is never going to reach the same market, even if it was the same recepie as coca cola!

The big boys of record dealing JM for example can afford to hold onto an item to maximise his profit as he is moving records all the time, myself on the other hand, don't have the stock so to keep it fresh have to turn around records a lot quicker so I have to take what I can at times. Basically if the book price is £100 and I've picked it up for £40 then £70 sell price is fine by me, although I might try for the £100 initially. Also think that lots of records have turned up so supply outstripping demand on some items, market forces again at work.

i'm sure john is right if he says that he's booming. but he may be the only one?

how about joe dutton, shane, joe dunlop, a few others who sell stuff. what's it like for you?

serious record dealing is like any other business, i presume; you have fixed costs and overheads and sales targets and income projections that will be worked out in percentages. it's slightly different than making and selling baked beans in that you could have a good hit with buying a few collections cheap which may massage your bottom line on a one-off basis but i suspect that's getting much harder to pull off.

there will be no escaping an overall trend no matter how big the boys are.

i hear all this talk of overseas buyers, and again i don't say anyone's not being honest, but who are they and where are they? and how long will they be in it for? 90-95% of the market must be here and here's therefore the engine for price growth (or reduction) surely?

as baz says, we are in a recession now - the whole of the High Street's buggered, i'm just surprised luxury item vendors like record dealers are any different?

finally, agree that items will obviously turn up - that's how time and history work, and as the size of the scene shrinks so prices must fall on the supply and demand basis. i would have thought

i have almost stopped buying and selling to be honest.

i always specialised in decent £10/£15/£20 records and filled my boxes with them accordingly. prestatyn last year was the start of the downturn for me. people were just not interested like the previous year imo and i have not bought any stock for a few months now.

i could go to a nighter and do £200 out of cheap records every week with ease. i dont think i would get that now with the same records.

i watch other sellers struggle with cheap records which gives me less motivation obviously.

just gonna sit back for a while and see what happens.

Shane

i have almost stopped buying and selling to be honest.

i always specialised in decent £10/£15/£20 records and filled my boxes with them accordingly. prestatyn last year was the start of the downturn for me. people were just not interested like the previous year imo and i have not bought any stock for a few months now.

i could go to a nighter and do £200 out of cheap records every week with ease. i dont think i would get that now with the same records.

i watch other sellers struggle with cheap records which gives me less motivation obviously.

just gonna sit back for a while and see what happens.

Shane

After Friday night, you said you were going to sell eggs instead

as baz says, we are in a recession now - the whole of the High Street's buggered, i'm just surprised luxury item vendors like record dealers are any different?

Exactely the same as the high street! the Ebay phenomenon has hit the dealers big time, simple you can shop online in the comfort of your own home and buy (most things) cheaper than than you can on the high street/dealers its a fact! Why pay £40 from a dealer when you can buy it now for $12.50. and every one be it what ever your shopping for is doing it on Ebay, the high street shops are shit scared of this, and eventually the prices in the high street will come down to if not all ready! you only had to go out over the christmas period to see there wasn't the volume of shoppers about in the high street, And this is exactely the same situation for records.

i always specialised in decent £10/£15/£20 records and filled my boxes with them accordingly. prestatyn last year was the start of the downturn for me. people were just not interested like the previous year imo and i have not bought any stock for a few months now.

Shane

Decent you say Its a shame really as i was thinking of doing the same, purley buying decent £10-£40 from Ebay and selling them on, with the way things are going i decided against it.

The global economy is doing better than the UK at the moment. See how interest rates are going up accross the world but the UK is looking at possible cuts.

Most of the people in the UK are also increasing their propensity to save at the moment as the ageing population prepares for retirment so there is a bit less dispossable income around.

Perhaps that is why dealers who sell abroad are doing better than those that stick to record rooms and fairs in the UK?

You don't have to have gone to Wigan Casino, live in the north of England and be 50 years old to want to buy an original Eddie Parker or a Tomagoes.

Just a thought.

The global economy is doing better than the UK at the moment. See how interest rates are going up accross the world but the UK is looking at possible cuts.

Most of the people in the UK are also increasing their propensity to save at the moment as the ageing population prepares for retirment so there is a bit less dispossable income around.

Perhaps that is why dealers who sell abroad are doing better than those that stick to record rooms and fairs in the UK?

You don't have to have gone to Wigan Casino, live in the north of England and be 50 years old to want to buy an original Eddie Parker or a Tomagoes.

Just a thought.

All spot on James. Recent price boom did coincide with excess liquidity of funds in the UK domestic market, now the economy is going down the pan there will be less money for most UK buyers to spend. And pensions funding requirements will hit people down to their early 20s soon, that allied with the grossly overpriced cost of housing etc will do for most new entry participants in the UK domestic market, no spare cash.

I blame Mikey, he works for the government. :angry:

i'm sure john is right if he says that he's booming. but he may be the only one?

how about joe dutton, shane, joe dunlop, a few others who sell stuff. what's it like for you?

serious record dealing is like any other business, i presume; you have fixed costs and overheads and sales targets and income projections that will be worked out in percentages. it's slightly different than making and selling baked beans in that you could have a good hit with buying a few collections cheap which may massage your bottom line on a one-off basis but i suspect that's getting much harder to pull off.

there will be no escaping an overall trend no matter how big the boys are.

i hear all this talk of overseas buyers, and again i don't say anyone's not being honest, but who are they and where are they? and how long will they be in it for? 90-95% of the market must be here and here's therefore the engine for price growth (or reduction) surely?

as baz says, we are in a recession now - the whole of the High Street's buggered, i'm just surprised luxury item vendors like record dealers are any different?

finally, agree that items will obviously turn up - that's how time and history work, and as the size of the scene shrinks so prices must fall on the supply and demand basis. i would have thought

"as the size of the scene shrinks so prices must fall "

I don't see the scene shrinking, over the years I kept my "paper" mail shot to a figure of between 600 - 500

Today on the database, we have over 13300+ customers but only 320 or so paper list rsubscribers. I honestly believe there are more rare soul records being sold now, than ever before: but most business is done on the internet and not at events or off paper lists..Collectors now have a much wider choice of sources to buy from.. so yes there maybe some are feeling a downturn but it's because the punters have changed their habits of buying and some dealers have maybe not reacted quick enough to recapture the ££££s being spent.

Don't worry, vinyl junkies, they are still out there.

J.

John, have to agree with you, I only ever sold records at soul events and record fairs until the internet came along now I sell via email lists, ebay, here on soul source, and even get wants emailed to me, so my market place has gone up, even if the price of certain items has come down.

John, have to agree with you, I only ever sold records at soul events and record fairs until the internet came along now I sell via email lists, ebay, here on soul source, and even get wants emailed to me, so my market place has gone up, even if the price of certain items has come down.

Agree with both John and yourself Mark about the internet, you cannot ignore it or ignore it at your peril. Record bars just not the same now with most collectors doing there buying and selling away from venues.

"as the size of the scene shrinks so prices must fall "

I don't see the scene shrinking, over the years I kept my "paper" mail shot to a figure of between 600 - 500

Today on the database, we have over 13300+ customers but only 320 or so paper list rsubscribers. I honestly believe there are more rare soul records being sold now, than ever before: but most business is done on the internet and not at events or off paper lists..Collectors now have a much wider choice of sources to buy from.. so yes there maybe some are feeling a downturn but it's because the punters have changed their habits of buying and some dealers have maybe not reacted quick enough to recapture the ££££s being spent.

Don't worry, vinyl junkies, they are still out there.

J.

but i imagine you kept your mailshot down cos it cost you £££ in postage and stationery john, not to mention time spent posting etc?

i think the internet and broadband etc has coincided with a lot of people of the right age waving bye bye to their kids, paying off their mortages and splashing out on vinyl.

my question is how long that will last and whether it's started slowing down already.

two other things.

1. the 'scene' will surely shrink, and at an increasing rate, as people die off won't it? there just aren't the overseas buyers, as yet, to replace them (i accept there are some, but christian h, wherever he is, was very interesting on the myth [as he put it] of a thriving soul scene in scandinavia, for instance).

2. loads of people want to be djs these days (and fair enough, why not if they want to) and this is certainly part of what's driving the high prices for big items. is this sustainable?

I was the first person to sell northern soul excusively on the internet, that is a fact, and I could name you two very well known dealers who told me I was mental for stopping doing paper lists. 18 months later they both had websites.

I was the first person to sell northern soul excusively on the internet, that is a fact, and I could name you two very well known dealers who told me I was mental for stopping doing paper lists. 18 months later they both had websites.

That's a hell of a statement Pete, when was that, it's liken to ONE KNOWN COPY.

That's a hell of a statement Pete, when was that, it's liken to ONE KNOWN COPY.

It's true Mark, think what you like. 1997.

It's true Mark, think what you like. 1997.

I couldn't find anyone other than Pete selling northern on the internet when I first got access to it. Must have been around '97 or '98 that I came across Planet Records and it was well established by then. I reckon Pete is absolutely correct in his claim. I think Steve Cee also had a site shortly afterwards and that was the second one I saw?

I couldn't find anyone other than Pete selling northern on the internet when I first got access to it. Must have been around '97 or '98 that I came across Planet Records and it was well established by then. I reckon Pete is absolutely correct in his claim. I think Steve Cee also had a site shortly afterwards and that was the second one I saw?

I was doing it as an email list way before the website mate, but don't give me credit for anything, it can't possibly be true

I'm interested i this question of whether prices are or are not coming down.

A Silhouettes, for instance, has just been reduced in sales and it seems to me a lot of other items aren't selling. In the last three months, I've sold a Jimmy Wallace, a Hy-Tones (YDEKMN) and a Masqueraders (Same Thing) and none of them achieved the sort of money I think they would two years ago.

I think this is a good thing (strangely) because obviously it means other records I want are going to get cheaper.

However, the dealers seem to be disagreeing.

John Manship, on here, says things are 'kickin'' and that prices are good.

Pete Smith says the opposite in a post a week or two back.

I'm not saying either is lying, or wrong - this may just reflect their own experience (mine is the same as Pete's, mind you).

I wondered what the experience of other people on here was? Many of you are dealers yourselves but others just like me flog the odd record now and then. We're most of us buyers, too.

So, what's your personal experience? Up or down?

Vote anonymously in the poll or make your comments here, up to you

in my opinion (for what it is worth) the situation of prices dropping is not exclusive to the rare soul scene. in all aspects of business, as the internet has opened up, prices are getting tighter and tighter in all walks of life, for the buyer this is obviously fantastic, however, for any trader this must be hard

Defo up especially from dealers on these pages but you can get a bargain as I have done through people on here who are not over profiteering from the scene, perfect example was Bros Guiding Light was on here from a dealer at £125, ridiculous! :angry: , its a standard (but overpriced imo) £90 any where else, but as John Manship has said people who really want a record and have the money will pay any going rate.

Lenny

Record bars just not the same now with most collectors doing there buying and selling away from venues.

Agreed, it's a real shame but it's almost not worth looking through the records at venues any more. I always find myself thinking 'I saw this £50 cheaper on ebay the other day', but amazingly dealers at venues still refuse to come down on most of their prices, or only by a few quid because they don't have to sell there any more, i was told by one after offering a lower price 'I just don't need the money'. I always thought record bars would have to try to compete with ebay, but maybe that's never going to happen

M.

you buy to sell whether it be at venues from record shops from the net,and as an earlier post admits at one time you could take a box of records to fast turn over,

Not any more.as the cd takes over from the record to the normal attendee not all but one hell of a percentage,who want initial speed to listen and download for home use rather than own the vinyl.

So £5 and £10 records are now a no no as they are readily available and the £35 and above price range are for the collector or enthusiast who wants to be a player,

and there are as many dealers as there are buyers at some venues,

so to deal you have to have a customer no customer no deal

catch 22

no one wins

Doug

About four years ago I left an allniter venue with NO RECORDS. That was the first time in nearly 30 years it had EVER happened.I made a decision that the prices for what I really wanted were so high that I would have to buy something else to justify the outlay. It then dawned on me I was actually about to buy records that I really didn't want! This was a pivotal turning point for me and my collecting habits. I now don't buy "fillers, missing numbers, or better copies of stuff I already have etc.

Although there's lots of good records still out there, what's the fun of collecting, if you simply can't afford the records you REALLY want. That was my quandry. So...what was the answer? Well for me I totally changed my buying habits and decided to wait out the "returnees boom" until prices for the stuff I REALLY want comes tumbling down again as I believe it will.

Anyone else conciously changed their buying habits?

Problem is...... I now expect to own the current top $$$ 45s when I'm too old to dance to 'em!!

Regards,

Dave

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

Everything I want never seems to go down, always up

Totally agree with you there, Karen! Sign of good taste me thinks............

Seriously though, a heck of a lot of people want to get their mits on the "big" classic tunes, so when they (rarely, even if they are not particularly rare)), do come up for sale, everyone who has been saving/or can afford will place a bid, hence auction values rocketing the price of all those top notch sounds (e.g. Tomangoes,Arin Demain, Showstoppers, Little Tommy, Cautions, Ray Pollard, Cecil Washington/Group, Al Williams...e.t.c., e.t.c....). There are so,so many quality rare/not-so-rare/expensive 45's out there, and many of us will pay well over the odds for those we hold dear to our hearts and souls. Basically 'cos we may not (or are afraid we may not), get that chance again....................

I.m.o. original excellent/brilliant/quality soul songs on 45 will ALWAYS cost, "soully" BECAUSE they are excellent/brilliant/quality soul songs.....and we will always luv 'em..................!!!

Carl

in my opinion (for what it is worth) the situation of prices dropping is not exclusive to the rare soul scene. in all aspects of business, as the internet has opened up, prices are getting tighter and tighter in all walks of life, for the buyer this is obviously fantastic, however, for any trader this must be hard

You also have to remember if a dealer has paid £x for record, he's not going to suddenly sell it for minus £x thats commercial suicide and unfortuantely lots of dealers to keep getting nice numbers for their lists etc were having to pay top £ previously to get said records. So if titles suddenly turns up in quantity or falls out of favour then dealer has problem, it's a business not a hobby to them.

Edited March 14, 200619 yr by Netspeaky

Agree with a lot of what's being said on this thread. Especially about more deals being done away from the limelight at venues, in rooms, at house visits and via telephone / internet etc. I think that's absolutely fine too.

Also agree with soulster's comments - the "trophy" records always bring everyone out. But a lot of stuff which I know is good and which I see in boxes at venues just doesn't seem to move that quickly! A case of more people after fewer records?

Agree with a lot of what's being said on this thread. Especially about more deals being done away from the limelight at venues, in rooms, at house visits and via telephone / internet etc. I think that's absolutely fine too.

Good point, I have spent most of my record money, agreed to buy records to pay for and pick up at Prestatyn even before I go.

Edited March 15, 200619 yr by KarenC

Good point, I have spent most of my record money, agreed to buy records to pay for and pick up at Prestatyn even before I go.

karen, does this mean you won't be buying anything off me in Prestatyn then.

karen, does this mean you won't be buying anything off me in Prestatyn then.

I don't know.Who are you ?

I don't know.Who are you ?

I don't know.Who are you ?

Well I don't know who he is, the name tells me nothing

I don't know.Who are you ?

Come and say hello in Prestatyn, it's Mark Speakman.

Come and say hello in Prestatyn, it's Mark Speakman.

OK will do, but please try not to sell me anything

Well I don't know who he is, the name tells me nothing

=============

And you're usually so good with names..............