Hi there

 

I'm currently off-loading a bunch of repros on Discos and I've come across a Carstairs one. On the website it states there are two reissues, one seemingly official and one unofficial. However, both of these state that STERLING is scratched into the run-out groove.

 

My copy has CAR 001A and CAR 1B scratched on the respective sides and not STERLING.

 

Does anyone know what issue / year this is from? I know that it's not an expensive record but I just want to list it correctly!

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks

Jon

On 30/03/2015 at 21:25, Fuzzyjonclay said:

Hi there

 

I'm currently off-loading a bunch of repros on Discos and I've come across a Carstairs one. On the website it states there are two reissues, one seemingly official and one unofficial. However, both of these state that STERLING is scratched into the run-out groove.

 

My copy has CAR 001A and CAR 1B scratched on the respective sides and not STERLING.

 

Does anyone know what issue / year this is from? I know that it's not an expensive record but I just want to list it correctly!

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks

Jon

Hi Jon, 

Did you find anything out about this one as I have one too?! 

The only true original of this record is the Red Coach GRT Chess distributed White Demo.  This has the word Sterling machine stamped into the runout groove.  

The 1970's demo bootlegs have the word Sterling scratched into the run out groove. 

The Pink issues are a 1000 copy legal press made later for export to the UK and the 1970's Northern Soul scene by Gene Redd Jr, the label owner. Wigan record bar was swomped with these in 75/76.

The copy you describe with the word "Record" written in a straight line, instead of the usual curved shape is a recent/modern repress of the white demo.

Edited April 1, 20241 yr by Solidsoul

Thanks! 

how can it be a repress when it was never issued

12 hours ago, Bleep said:

how can it be a repress when it was never issued

It was pressed (or issued if you will) as white promo first in 1973. These were released under the Chess/GRT group who shut down very soon after. This Carstairs single then never got to see a commercial release.

When original label owner Gene Redd got to build up his own Red Coach label soon after and just alongside his Red Lite one he re-released the Carstairs on a pink stocker with instant guaranteed sales within the UK.

5 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

It was pressed (or issued if you will) as white promo first in 1973. These were released under the Chess/GRT group who shut down very soon after. This Carstairs single then never got to see a commercial release.

When original label owner Gene Redd got to build up his own Red Coach label soon after and just alongside his Red Lite one he re-released the Carstairs on a pink stocker with instant guaranteed sales within the UK.

I think or I heard he was asked to press the Carstairs not a case of him rebuilding after the failure of Chess/GRT, by John Anderson maybe?

22 hours ago, D9 KTF said:

The only true original of this record is the Red Coach White Demo.  This has the word Sterling machine stamped into the runout groove.  

The 1970's demo bootlegs have the word Sterling scratched into the run out groove.  The Pink issues are legal represses made for the 1970's Northern Soul scene demand by Gene Redd Jr, the label owner.

The copy you describe with the word "Record" written in a straight line, instead of the usual curved shape is a recent/modern repress of the white demo.

The pink ones are issues, not reissues, done for commercial reasons just like any other release.  It never had a commercial release so cannot be a reissue. 

1 minute ago, Chalky said:

I think or I heard he was asked to press the Carstairs not a case of him rebuilding after the failure of Chess/GRT, by John Anderson maybe?

OK but it's still Gene who re-released the Carstairs on his then own Red Coach label.

Label that kept on releasing new materials afterward all the same. 

So therefore the later pink issues as sold on here as "originals" 10yrs ago were actually re-issues?! Surely a "commercial release" is irrevelant. A 1973 original is surely just that?

Edited May 21, 20214 yr by Ruisoul

42 minutes ago, Ruisoul said:

So therefore the later pink issues as sold on here as "originals" 10yrs ago were actually re-issues?! Surely a "commercial release" is irrevelant. A 1973 original is surely just that?

No I agree with Chalky it was "issued" with a pink label because of the demand of the record which had never been released, just available as a promo, a reissue would have to have been even later.

 

2 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

No I agree with Chalky it was "issued" with a pink label because of the demand of the record which had never been released, just available as a promo, a reissue would have to have been even later.

 

All the pink issues were done for the Northern Soul UK market in the mid 70's. They were all shipped to the UK. That's why only white demos turn up in the USA! The pink issues don't turn up in the States, unless maybe one found it's way back across!

Edited May 21, 20214 yr by D9 KTF

I think the sound dips on a snide copy am I right? 

Anyway, to play it live would really hurt me girl .

Chess /GRT closing down happened towards the end of 1975 so wasn't the reason that the Carstairs wasn't released in 1973.

 

On 21/05/2021 at 10:23, D9 KTF said:

All the pink issues were done for the Northern Soul UK market in the mid 70's. They were all shipped to the UK. That's why only white demos turn up in the USA! The pink issues don't turn up in the States, unless maybe one found it's way back across!

It was issued for commercial gain for the very first time on the usual pink label imprint.  The fact they were all sold to the UK is irrelevant, they are not reissues. 

33 minutes ago, Dean Rudland said:

Chess /GRT closing down happened towards the end of 1975 so wasn't the reason that the Carstairs wasn't released in 1973.

 

You're right. My bad. I should have said that at that point the Chess/GRT distribution deal for Red Coach felt through and the record then didn't pass beyond the promo stage.

7 hours ago, Chalky said:

It was issued for commercial gain for the very first time on the usual pink label imprint.  The fact they were all sold to the UK is irrelevant, they are not reissues. 

They were not issued for the USA market/public, so not part of the original release/promotion. They are a contract product press for a specialised market in the UK. I would only think of the demos as originals because they were part of the original promotion for the release in the USA to the general public.

Edited May 22, 20214 yr by D9 KTF

I've posted the story of the Carstairs pink issue on here quite a few years ago but it may be worth repeating with some extra background info even if many people already know most of it.

I was working for Global Records in Manchester from 1972 to around 76, some of this is a bit of a blur now but I remember the Carstairs record as it was one of the few times that we outdid Selecta-Disc, Soul Bowl and Record Corner to get a big record first.

Global mainly sold to other shops in the UK although some collectors were brave enough to venture down the basement  steps to be barely tolerated by the owner Ed Balbier . Ed had millions of deleted singles from his time in the US (at least 4000 Precisions - If This Is Love) but also stocked a wide range of singles issued in the US as golden oldies by the record companies. Most of these were early rock and roll, pop and heavy rock. There was some northern titles available as oldies such as James Carr That's What I Want To Know on Flashback and the Motown Yesteryear series. Also, thanks to Russ , some pop oldies sold as northern eg Brian Hyland, Bobby Goldsboro, Baja Marimba Band and others. I ordered these records by sending orders by post, keeping a carbon copy, to the US record companies who sent them to Global's warehouse in Philly before shipping to the UK. There were a few labels that we didn't , or couldn't , order direct so had to use a company called Price Rite Records in Island Park N.Y. I still have a business card from the owner Larry Sonin so I can be sure about this. As more 70s records were getting played I started ordering them from Price Rite even though I had no idea if they could get them. Some I recall are Oscar Perry titles on Perri Tone, Nasco singles, Earl Connelly, Danny Reed and Triumphs-Strange. All these would be in quantities of 500 to 1000 copies. On one order I simply wrote Red Coach RC 802 x 1000 not expecting to get any. It would usually take 6 or 7 weeks before orders would arrive in the UK with no prior knowledge of which titles Price Rite had got.

When the Carstairs arrived these were sold to Global's retail customers throughout the UK. As Global didn't have an exclusive deal with Red Coach all the other UK wholesalers could get hold of the record but Global had a couple of weeks to sell their copies and place another order. It was one of the quickest selling singles Global ever had .

Larry at Price Rite never told me anything about how he got the order. I assume he just phoned Red Coach who having already paid for the recording costs and an advance to the Carstairs were only too pleased to press up a thousand. I should think Red Coach would have been aware that the order was for the UK or they might have tried to push it in the US. 

The record was 100% legitimate and technically the first issue and therefore not a re-issue. I suppose having a long time lag from recording and initial promotion to eventual issue is very unusual.

The reason for no pink label Chess distributed copies must be something to do with the distribution deal collapsing unexpectantly. By the time a new distribution deal was done Red Coach must have felt it not worth going with the record for a second time. In my opinion there would have been Chess pink label copies manufactured but with no distribution available these would have to have been destroyed. It would be amazing if whoever was trashing the stock took a copy home and this were to turn up, like the Darrell Banks London issue.

I used to have an original white label that I got from Bob Catteneo that had 25c written in red ink on the B side. Anyone got this one?

 

My definition of USA original release, is demo and issue that is meant for the promotion or sale to the USA general public of a certain song. This can include being picked up for national release by a big label, as long as it's all within the initial release timescale. The pink issue Carstairs does not fit into that, because it was not for the USA  general public.

Edited May 22, 20214 yr by D9 KTF

IMHO the for who or where is trivial in regard of the pressing qualifying matter. Although every stories behind such or such pressing is always most interesting for real. The label, the copyright ownership, the source like the 'reel tape' or the masters and all that comes into the process to manufacture the finished product are more relevant as to what to call the re-released record. And evidently the time gap between them pressings.

With all the insights we now know from Ian Levine's broadcast air-play audition while in Miami back in 1973 and his desperation in that record quest. To John Anderson managing to dig up 3 radio copies somewhere in 1974 giving it the exposure on British soil at the Mecca making it one phenomenal northern soul record there an then before finally being re-issued on Gene Redd independent Red Coach label somewhere in 1975.

All that makes this pink styrene pressing certainly a second issue or why not a re-issue if one prefers. Although for me the time gap between the two releases is not big enough to make it a re-issue as such. The fact that the record was re-released through Gene Redd in America makes it an 'import' in the proper sense of the word. In the end I'd call that a second or later issue. Like any re-release made to supply a public demand wherever.

Rick Coopers very informative article has just confirmed what I have been saying all along. The pink issues of the Carstairs are not USA release originals, but a special legal 1000 press copy order for the UK Northern Scene. 

If the Northern Soul scene had never happened, only the Sterling stamped White Demos would exist of the Carstairs!

Edited May 23, 20214 yr by D9 KTF

5 hours ago, Rick Cooper said:

I've posted the story of the Carstairs pink issue on here quite a few years ago but it may be worth repeating with some extra background info even if many people already know most of it.

 There were a few labels that we didn't , or couldn't , order direct so had to use a company called Price Rite Records in Island Park N.Y. I still have a business card from the owner Larry Sonin so I can be sure about this. As more 70s records were getting played I started ordering them from Price Rite even though I had no idea if they could get them. Some I recall are Oscar Perry titles on Perri Tone, Nasco singles, Earl Connelly, Danny Reed and Triumphs-Strange. All these would be in quantities of 500 to 1000 copies. On one order I simply wrote Red Coach RC 802 x 1000 not expecting to get any. It would usually take 6 or 7 weeks before orders would arrive in the UK with no prior knowledge of which titles Price Rite had got.

Larry at Price Rite never told me anything about how he got the order. I assume he just phoned Red Coach who having already paid for the recording costs and an advance to the Carstairs were only too pleased to press up a thousand. I should think Red Coach would have been aware that the order was for the UK or they might have tried to push it in the US.