I think this has been touched upon within other threads, but I dont think it has ever been covered properly in its own thread.  Basically, can record labels be restored/improved proffessionally by a specialist who might normally restore art work or old documents ???....has anyone ever tried this, or even invesigated the possibility & what was the outcome. 

Many thanks

Russ

Hi Russ

investigated this extensively about 2 years ago. Couldn't find anyone in the art world/restoration who would touch it 'with a barge pole'!!

I suppose it's like asking an art restorer to restore a print of painting.  A label is just a mass produced copy of an image, you might as well just locate a scan of a good one and stick that on the record.  At the end of the day a record is just the vehicle for delivering the musical performance (the piece of art) - it's not the piece of plastic that is 'art' - although some of them look very nice indeed....

Thanks guys - was just a thought...

John Manship had a record on a recent auction where I am sure he said the label had been 'professionally restored' - so he may be able to point you in the right direction...

" I Think we're, in the realms of fantasy here Corporal Jones"  Have tried DIY restoration on UK TMG items , probably the most heavily abused worn genre , From= sticker removal /residue ,with lighter fuel to Smirnoff,  Worn lable painting,with felt tip pens and water coloured paints, bashed of center replacement with superglue /chewing  gum, ebay is full""  how to record restoration hints"  my findings buy quality Primero! Lol Johnny

38 minutes ago, conchitta said:

" I Think we're, in the realms of fantasy here Corporal Jones"  Have tried DIY restoration on UK TMG items , probably the most heavily abused worn genre , From= sticker removal /residue ,with lighter fuel to Smirnoff,  Worn lable painting,with felt tip pens and water coloured paints, bashed of center replacement with superglue /chewing  gum, ebay is full""  how to record restoration hints"  my findings buy quality Primero! Lol Johnny

I think you are right where we know there are multiple copies available of a disc, some of which are in reasonable condition, but when you are talking about extremely, genuinely rare discs where there are only a handful of known copies, it would be very nice to know if anything other than a DIY job can be done to restore it to near to its original beauty, label wise.

Using the art analogy, if you had found a previously unknown rare painting by a collectable artist, the art world wouldnt say buy a cheaper painting in better condition.

I think its a valid question that deserves a little more thought.....

Best Russ

I'm sure that with a copy of a mint condition version of any 45 as 'the original' to go from, a modern printing plant could reproduce a near identical copy of any old label. Of course, it probably wouldn't be on the exact same kind of paper & certainly wouldn't have any patina (?) so your OVO specialist would probably still be able to tell the difference. 

I assume that any label "restoration" would be considered additional defacing of an original label, and should reduce the record's value, rather than increase it, as artwork added could never pass for part of an original label, because the aging of the paper would be different.  I doubt if artwork could be added where someone with good eyes couldn't tell that that had been done.

48 minutes ago, Russ Vickers said:

 

I think its a valid question that deserves a little more thought.....

Best Russ

Russ -I do think it is a valid question and I did give my reply some thought.

The art analogy has never stacked up for me.  In the case of a newly discovered painting it is the only original and can't be anything but a one off.  It is a purely visual experience all about the visual aesthetics.   A record exists purely to deliver a aural experience and from when it is first produced be it one copy or a thousand copies it is always a copy - a print if you like - of the original musical performance.  A better analogy for me is if you find a previously unissued master tape by a major recording artist of course you would do all you could do to restore the audio quality and produce a listenable experience.   I guess what I am trying to say is that the record is not the direct comparison to the painting - the musical performance and how it was recorded is!

1 hour ago, Mike Lofthouse said:

Russ -I do think it is a valid question and I did give my reply some thought.

The art analogy has never stacked up for me.  In the case of a newly discovered painting it is the only original and can't be anything but a one off.  It is a purely visual experience all about the visual aesthetics.   A record exists purely to deliver a aural experience and from when it is first produced be it one copy or a thousand copies it is always a copy - a print if you like - of the original musical performance.  A better analogy for me is if you find a previously unissued master tape by a major recording artist of course you would do all you could do to restore the audio quality and produce a listenable experience.   I guess what I am trying to say is that the record is not the direct comparison to the painting - the musical performance and how it was recorded is!

I'm with Mike on this one. In fact I'm a great lover of records and labels that tell of a life lived, within reason. When people see a record I have for sale and say 'it's got someone's name on it', some times I'm able to tell them that it is the name of a DJ that was No1 in a particular market and this very record would have been played on his show, making it part of soul music history. Some like me get excited at the thought of owning it, others feel nothing and ask 'have you got a clean copy'. It all up to the particular collector, but to me records were made to be played, the musical moment enjoyed, not stuck in white sleeves, put onto a shelf, only ever to be looked at.

14 hours ago, Mike Lofthouse said:

Russ -I do think it is a valid question and I did give my reply some thought.

The art analogy has never stacked up for me.  In the case of a newly discovered painting it is the only original and can't be anything but a one off.  It is a purely visual experience all about the visual aesthetics.   A record exists purely to deliver a aural experience and from when it is first produced be it one copy or a thousand copies it is always a copy - a print if you like - of the original musical performance.  A better analogy for me is if you find a previously unissued master tape by a major recording artist of course you would do all you could do to restore the audio quality and produce a listenable experience.   I guess what I am trying to say is that the record is not the direct comparison to the painting - the musical performance and how it was recorded is!

Good points Mike & I agree...

12 hours ago, Dave Thorley said:

I'm with Mike on this one. In fact I'm a great lover of records and labels that tell of a life lived, within reason. When people see a record I have for sale and say 'it's got someone's name on it', some times I'm able to tell them that it is the name of a DJ that was No1 in a particular market and this very record would have been played on his show, making it part of soul music history. Some like me get excited at the thought of owning it, others feel nothing and ask 'have you got a clean copy'. It all up to the particular collector, but to me records were made to be played, the musical moment enjoyed, not stuck in white sleeves, put onto a shelf, only ever to be looked at.

I'm very much with you too on that Dave, I'm personally not too worried about proffesional stickers or writing, & I definitly play my records at home for pleasure, what I was getting at were labels that are damged, with credits affected, I'm with you with normal aging & even a bit of rub or slight water damage even, but when credits or artwork are badly affected, it would be nice if it could be improved.

Russ

What about another analogy. You crash your car, do you drive about with the original dents and scrapes or do you get a panel beater to flatten it out and use some touch-up paint to get it looking pukka? 

 

Some people like to leave things authentic and aged (I believe the antique term is "patina"), some people like things looking the best they can. I'm not averse to getting a black felt tip marker and colouring in sticker tears, but there's bound to be a vinyl Lovejoy out there somewhere. Hang on, he made new things look old, not the other way round...

Edited March 10, 20169 yr by cover-up

Russ

Rather than the "old master" analogy I started thinking along the lines of printed items such as dust jackets of first edition books or posters - both of which can command  high prices or add significant value to an item.

My first Google search showed that there are expert restorers in both these fields.

Below are a couple of You Tube vids that give some idea.

It might be worth exploring further in that direction.