Always intrigued me from my earliest days of being interested in Soul music, where do we as individuals consider the line to be between Northern Soul and Disco? Many sounds popular on the NS scene, to me, and often to the original artists themselves belong in the category of early Disco. Benny Troy being an obvious example, Benny stated in interviews that when he made IWGYT he was aiming it squarely at the Disco movement with a view to having a hit in the Studio 54 vein. Another example huge to the NS scene is Bits 'n' Pieces KORA, an obvious deviation from sounds such as The Belles, Jackie Lee, Bobby Relf/Garrett.

Interested to hear other people's personal views on where the line is drawn from Blues/Jazz/Funk/Soul/Disco obviously the term 'Crossover' was adopted from the whole 'Fusion' idea of different genres bleeding into one another, everyone is going to have a different view on this as their level of tolerance within the music will have an effect as to where their personal line is drawn, some not being fans of the other genres that combine to make the variety of music that we have termed 'Northern Soul'. Nowadays there is great variety within the canon with Delta Blues sounds coming in as well as the RnB side, a couple of examples of what can only be described as Blues that have taken off on the scene would be Hayes Cotton 'Black Wings Has My Angel' and Jimmy Frazer 'Of Hopes And Dreams And Tombstones'.

So yeah, obvs no definitive answer this is gonna be a personal take on what makes a record fall into the Disco bracket, perhaps to the point where we wouldn't want to hear it at a Soul event.

Sounds posted to illustrate the point most welcome!  

 

6 minutes ago, shufflin said:

well I own this one, think this is great, by no means a traditional track, a jazzy dancer and I'm getting more into this stuff as time goes on xD

Ideal material for the 'Latin stuff that is everywhere' thread! I'd struggle to fit this in to either Soul OR Disco, good dancer though in that Latin kinda way.

okay get your pitchforks ready, how far over the line do we go than this? never got this, although I realise it's very popular

 

7 minutes ago, shufflin said:

okay get your pitchforks ready, how far over the line do we go than this? never got this, although I realise it's very popular

In a well publicised video Benny stated himself that he was aiming this one firmly at the Disco genre. Hugely popular on the soul scene of course, popular with me cause I'm a devotee of session player Vincent Bell and his invention the Coral Electric Sitar, which features heavily on this one and also on a hell of a lot of other huge sounds that are totally in the NS vein! That twangy guitar sound you hear often (you'll recognise it when you hear it) is actually it's own unique instrument.

I'll stick my neck out and say brilliant record, is it soul or disco? Precisely what I was talking about with this thread!

I would think this one would blur a few lines - 

 

3 hours ago, the yank said:

I would think this one would blur a few lines - 

Huge sound at The Queens in Basford Staffs, any Stokey's reading will know exactly what I'm talking about! Legendary! 😉

Quick reminder about vids heavy threads in case some folks haven't seen it yet! 

 

Lines never blurred from my perspective, starting buying soul carried on through lots of its guises/offshoots, but it always comes back to do I like it and if so who cares what others think..   I would have loved a weekended in the mid 70s which played fully across the Board as there was so much good stuff that was missed by many who had one dimensional views and many still do!!!!!!!!

On 17/01/2019 at 20:01, the yank said:

I would think this one would blur a few lines - 

not for me, love it still, one of those 'never get sick of it' sounds

39 minutes ago, shufflin said:

not for me, love it still, one of those 'never get sick of it' sounds

Personally I have more of a soft spot for Under Your Spell:
 

 

1 hour ago, Soulman58 said:

Lines never blurred from my perspective, starting buying soul carried on through lots of its guises/offshoots, but it always comes back to do I like it and if so who cares what others think..   I would have loved a weekended in the mid 70s which played fully across the Board as there was so much good stuff that was missed by many who had one dimensional views and many still do!!!!!!!!

So bloody right   it hurts bruv🎇

Old Wigan spin, I think to some extent that when the brass is replaced with strings (real or synthesised) and you get those syncopated synthesised handclaps, you are going into Disco territory.

Obviously there are strings in some of the top drawer Soul records, too.

To me this is a pure disco track, that's not to say I don't think it's any good, just that it doesn't fit in with my oldies sensibility, the sleek production values, the polished finish. The kind of Mecca/Casino spin that I consider to belong in the vein of disco muzak. Probably what would be classed as Crossover! 

Purely my own opinion obviously, would I object to it being played? Of course not, diversity rules! 

 

Another one for the list - 

 

On 17/01/2019 at 19:49, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

In a well publicised video Benny stated himself that he was aiming this one firmly at the Disco genre. Hugely popular on the soul scene of course, popular with me cause I'm a devotee of session player Vincent Bell and his invention the Coral Electric Sitar, which features heavily on this one and also on a hell of a lot of other huge sounds that are totally in the NS vein! That twangy guitar sound you hear often (you'll recognise it when you hear it) is actually it's own unique instrument.

I'll stick my neck out and say brilliant record, is it soul or disco? Precisely what I was talking about with this thread!

This one is the most Marmite record ever though; I'm with Shufflin I never got this at all but loads of people absolutely love it. It just sounds pure disco to me although agreed the sitar is a tad unusual. I concede that he has a soulful voice though, so even when it's clear but it's still blurred!

8 minutes ago, Timillustrator said:

This one is the most Marmite record ever though; I'm with Shufflin I never got this at all but loads of people absolutely love it. It just sounds pure disco to me although agreed the sitar is a tad unusual. I concede that he has a soulful voice though, so even when it's clear but it's still blurred!

Fantastic soulful record sweet like jam not like marmite and as clear as mud IMHO  MUSIC IS OUR SANCUARY   thank God !! 

1 hour ago, Spain pete said:

Fantastic soulful record sweet like jam not like marmite and as clear as mud IMHO  MUSIC IS OUR SANCUARY   thank God !! 

but it sounds like the theme tune to the 1970's Loveboat tv series doesn't it 🙂, check that out on youtube and compare them haha

Just now, shufflin said:

but it sounds like the theme tune to the 1970's Loveboat tv series doesn't it 🙂, check that out on youtube and compare them haha

Funnily enough I can relate to what you've said here, no need to revisit it, I was an avid watcher, can hear the theme in my head right now and yes it is similar!

Love exciting and new, come aboard we're expecting you...

This was the first 'Northern Soul ' record I simply could not get my head around when it first came out....and still can't. 

Blurred my lines..

Packed the floors though.

Ed

 

 

16 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

This was the first 'Northern Soul ' record I simply could not get my head around when it first came out....and still can't. 

Blurred my lines..

Packed the floors though.

Ed

I/we usually only respond positively or not at all. 

But no, don't get that one, awful!

36 minutes ago, shufflin said:

but it sounds like the theme tune to the 1970's Loveboat tv series doesn't it 🙂, check that out on youtube and compare them haha

YES!!!! Absolutely hit the nail on the head - I've sometimes said this to my wife with this (and a couple of others) I'll start singing "The Loveboat, exciting and new" to it. Mind you it usually leads to a conversation about the differences between the Love Boat and Fantasy Island (I preferred the latter). Passes the time until something else gets played though. 

Edited January 21, 20196 yr by Timillustrator

Just been informed that my earlier post Will Collins and Willpower was covered up at Wigan as 'The love committee' obviously I wouldn't know that as never pretended I ever went there. My lass knows the record but didn't know it was covered up either! 

37 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

I/we usually only respond positively or not at all. 

But no, don't get that one, awful!

It doesn't sound particularly disco to me though, just an irritatingly catchy riff.

5 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Old Wigan spin, I think to some extent that when the brass is replaced with strings (real or synthesised) and you get those syncopated synthesised handclaps, you are going into Disco territory.

Obviously there are strings in some of the top drawer Soul records, too.

To me this is a pure disco track, that's not to say I don't think it's any good, just that it doesn't fit in with my oldies sensibility, the sleek production values, the polished finish. The kind of Mecca/Casino spin that I consider to belong in the vein of disco muzak. Probably what would be classed as Crossover! 

Purely my own opinion obviously, would I object to it being played? Of course not, diversity rules! 

 

About as big as it got in the mid 80s - utterly brilliant and NOT what I'd consider disco by any stretch. Dx

Edited January 21, 20196 yr by DaveNPete

Is this disco enough?

Just had to be there to get it I guess.

Massive at the Cleggy winter gardens.

Ed

 

 

Just to flip things on their head, this Disco one I would put firmly into Soul, with it's desperate lyric and the arrangement, fake strings and handclaps.

He might be working at it, but he's blown it, aint ever getting it and, worse, he knows it! 

Fantastic record! 

 

Brilliant and notorious spin:
 

 

Just now, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Just to flip things on their head, this Disco one I would put firmly into Soul, with it's desperate lyric and the arrangement, fake strings and handclaps.

He might be working at it, but he's blown it, aint ever getting it and, worse, he knows it! 

Fantastic record! 

 

Sorry but YUCK - the worst dross imaginable and certainly NOT 'new york' disco.

Dx

Just now, DaveNPete said:

Sorry but YUCK - the worst dross imaginable and certainly NOT 'new york' disco.

Dx

I take it that you're not a huge fan of that one then?

This one deserves a mention - 

 

I've never thought of this as disco at all but some say it is? I used the lyrics from this to make a Mother's Day card last year btw. 

 

18 minutes ago, the yank said:

This one deserves a mention

Fantastic record, no blurred line for me just pure soul

Edited January 21, 20196 yr by Shufflin

15 minutes ago, the yank said:

This one deserves a mention - 

 

Soul perfection  lmo

Nothing blurred about this, just pure magical Soul and then some.

On ‎17‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 17:36, tomangoes said:

It's very likely that folks drawn to the Northern Soul scene between 13 and 17 years old, whenever that was, would have liked the more 'easy to listen to ' variety, more than the hard core stuff.

Hence when this came out, for us ' youth's it was frenetic. On the other hand the old timers ( over 18 year old) would have probably balked at it and considered leaving the scene:)

 

It was THEE record for nappy nights along with reaching for the best at Baileys....up and down the country.

Different fashion, different dances, different sounds...

Great memories, and still Northern Soul for many, even if they never made it to the next stage and moved on to all nighters etc.

Ed

 

Oh Baby W,, please forgive him for he knoweth not what he doth. The sacrilege, savage and reprehensible as it is, can be overcome and is redeemable with just a simple play of..

 

2 hours ago, Steve C said:

Oh Baby W,, please forgive him for he knoweth not what he doth. The sacrilege, savage and reprehensible as it is, can be overcome and is redeemable with just a simple play of..

 

I would agree The Flasher is more Northern than Soul, but to be sure BW is more Soul than Northern....

In the last 44 years, which track has been played most at Northern Soul nights?

Not Rare soul nights, or Upfront nights, or chill out nights, or Underplayed nights.

A record could not be produced or discovered today that created as much enthusiasm on the dance floor as The Flasher in its heyday...and that's a fact. 

Just like my favourite IPA - Arrogant Bastard - hated by many, loved by few.

History cannot be changed, even if it is looked down on today.

Ed

 

 

37 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

I would agree The Flasher is more Northern than Soul, but to be sure BW is more Soul than Northern....

In the last 44 years, which track has been played most at Northern Soul nights?

Not Rare soul nights, or Upfront nights, or chill out nights, or Underplayed nights.

A record could not be produced or discovered today that created as much enthusiasm on the dance floor as The Flasher in its heyday...and that's a fact. 

Just like my favourite IPA - Arrogant Bastard - hated by many, loved by few.

History cannot be changed, even if it is looked down on today.

Ed

 

 

The Flasher for me is purely Northern Soul, may be one of the very last that could be called that. On the Bell Curve comes in at the thin edge of the right wing where the axis is chronological.Da Trumpets get it in. I was actually having a little play at 'us oldies' comment on the 'easy to listen' and 'the hardcore' would have us barfing our b/fasts out the door using BW as a reason why Disco could never do it for us. As for a discussion as to whether a track is more 'Soul' than 'NS' I wouldn't get into it. If the lines are sometimes blurred between what is NS and what is Disco it's even more so with Soul and NS. When the older amongst us started listening to Soul and Artists like BW there was no such thing as NS. However, when the latter became a thing, many artists we had listened to before that got played so the lines got very blurred indeed.

Edited January 23, 20196 yr by Steve C