Am delighted to announce that the next WEST GRAND single delves into the RIC-TIC archives.

 

REAL HUMDINGER / SCOTT’S ON SWINGERS (alternate take) - EDWIN STARR

 

It was way back in 2018 at Detroit A-Go-Go that  Al Kent totally flabbergasted me when he revealed that he and Richard Morris recorded Edwin Starr on REAL HUMDINGER before they cut it on JJ Barnes. Edwin wanted to get on the road to do a show and Ed Wingate wasn’t happy that Edwin was not in his opinion 100% focused on the studio session. After Edwin left, Ed suggested “that kid with the high voice” be tried on the track.

Al recalled Richard tracking JJ down to a pool hall and bringing him back to Golden World where he duly threw down on what became the all time classic we know and cherish. Uncle Ed decided to release that instead of Edwin’s take which has laid unknown and unloved in the Motown archives all these years.

JJ confirmed everthing the same day at Detroit A-Go-Go.

Dedicated detective work by Paul Nixon of CELLARFUL OF MOTOWN! fame led to the master tapes being located after everyone thought they had been lost. Without Paul this release could not have happened. AND IT’S BRILLIANT!

By arrangement with Universal Music/Motown we have licenced it for release on WEST GRAND single.

And again thanks to Paul the b side is also a bit special, a  previously unreleased take of SCOTT’S ON SWINGERS which is more uptempo than the version that was used first time around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Messaged you Neil

Hi Neil ,

Any chance of a snippet ? of Edwins , Real Humdinger , pretty please 

A BIT OF BACKGROUND INFO ....

Edwin had his 1st US hit 45 in July 65. He was initially required to tour to promote the 45 and as it became a big hit in many different US cities, he was in demand to do shows in each of these. That also meant that he was a sought after name to be added to US package tour line-ups -- these playing cities such as Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, LA and all the theatres on the east coast chitlin circuit (Royal, Howard, Uptown, Apollo, etc.). So Edwin undertook many live shows during 1965. 

Fast forward to 1966 --- that April 66, Edwin was touring across the US with the Miracles, Contours & Velvelettes. In June 66, he was part of the package tour with then new Motown act Gladys Knight & Pips. Edwin also visited the UK three times in 1966, undertaking an extensive UK tour in October 66. I believe the earlier visits were promotional affairs that also included a few club dates. If these promotional trips to the UK were at the behest of Polydor Records UK, then they were likely for a few days around May & August 66.

What gigs Edwin was keen to head out of the Golden World studio to undertake around January 66 seems to have been lost in the mists of time (unless someone on here knows better) -- January 66 being the most likely time when he would have cut his version of "Real Humdinger" --  J J's version coming out in February 66.  

Anyone here have details of Edwin's shows in & around Detroit in Dec 65 / Jan 66/ Feb 66 as it could just as easily have been a show at somewhere like Phelps Mr. Kellys or the Flame that he was keen to get to as to a show in Cleveland or New York. 

According to Al Kent in his book 'Custodians of the hummingbird'

'Actually we had written the song 'Real humdinger' for Edwin Starr. We were in the studio late one night over dubbing his voice on the track.However, the music track seemed to be overwhelming him.It was just a matter of laying in the pocket for a singer, the track had a tremendous groove and feel but the track was all over Edwin and he was getting frustrated. Richard (Morris) suggested we take one verse at a time. Edwin was walking back and forth across the studio floor 'This damn song ain't shit man. I don't see why you guys wrote it !'He was wasting time doing more complaining than singing.

'Stay in the track. Don't jump the lyrics Ed' I said over the console mic. We tried to get inside his head and stroke his ego, because Edwin carried his ego around on a truck bed. 'Do it from the top' Richard punched the tape. 'Rollin' Ed' The song was there, the groove was there - he wasn't.

'Man if this ain't over in ten minutes I'm outta here' Again Edwin couldn't find the handle to the song, but pushing him faster and harder throughout the overdub didn't help either because Edwin couldn't seem to take advantage of the breaks and the 'pick ups' in the song and he got creamed, devoured. Edwin threw the headphones to the floor in a rant. A restless abrupt juvenility manner ' I gotta be at the airport in fifteen minutes', he said in frustration  'I ain't got time for this damn song man.'

'C'mon Edwin' I yelled 'You almost had it. One more take.'

'Man f*** this song.' With a loose limbed walk, head thrown back high into the air,with too much pride to admit he didn't have the chops to deliver,he stormed out of the studio carrying his ego off in a wheelbarrow. We were left with a strong music track and no singer. But just by happenstance the ball took a fortuitous bounce in our direction. The next day JJ Barnes eagerly accepted our invitation to overdub his voice over the song 'Real humdinger'.

Edited March 21Mar 21 by Rob Moss

In 1966 Edwin was soon enjoying additional success with his "Stop Her On Sight" (& then "Headline News") 45's. "SOS" was released in late Jan 66. It made the national R&B charts in early Feb and stayed on that chart for over 2 months. On the pop side,  "Headline News" entered Billboard's Hot 100 in early May & had climbed to No.89 by 21st May.

So no doubt, from Feb to June he would have been much in demand for live shows across the US.

Doesn't help with what shows he was doing in Dec 65 & Jan 66 though (but he was obviously in the studio for a few days during that period). Brian Epstein booked Edwin to star at London's Saville Theatre on Feb 26th 1967 but that's way too late to be applicable in this conversation.

Who was appearing @ NY Apollo was regularly reported in JET MAGAZINE, however (even though he would have performed @ the Apollo in 66 & 67), Edwin's 1st mention in the mag wasn't until 1968 (with that stating he was on at the Apollo in August).

Edited March 22Mar 22 by Roburt

3 hours ago, Roburt said:

In 1966 Edwin was soon enjoying additional success with his "Headline News" 45. It was released in late Jan 66. 

Are you sure about the release date? It was reviewed in the April 16th issue of Billboard and I can't find it on any radio station surveys before April of '66. 

The composition “REAL HUMDINGER” registered by Myto Music Jan 28, 1966.

 

19 hours ago, The Yank said:

Are you sure about the release date? It was reviewed in the April 16th issue of Billboard and I can't find it on any radio station surveys before April of '66. 

Yes, got my releases mixed up, it was "Stop Her On Sight" that came out in January & was charting R&B wise in Feb 66.

Theconcertdatabase listings contain extensive info on who was appearing @ the 20 Grand in Detroit from the 50's through the 60's. But for Edwin their 1st 2 entries are ... 

Christmas Carnival    12/26/1965   @ IMA Auditorium, Flint, Michigan  . . . .  AND

The Swingin' Time Review     07/20/1966  Fox Theatre, Detroit, Michigan

.... so no info on the shows he undertook from Xmas 65 thru July 66.

I know there's an on-line data base that lists the recording dates for all Motown tracks; does that extend to Ric Tic / GW stuff (such as Edwin's recordings) that became Motown's after the take over by BG ?

Edited March 22Mar 22 by Roburt

A few ads for / reports of Edwin's live shows back in the 60's  ...

1st one in Detroit when he was still fronting Bill Doggett's Band (this is when he approached GW with his James Bond inspired song -- May 65) .... "00 Soul" hit big quickly & it seems he was added to a touring review for their final shows which were @ the Apollo (Aug 65) ...  

. . . then some 1966 (& later stuff) ... a US review tour he was on with Motown acts (which hit the Howard in DC in April 66), 2 shows in June 66 (one @ Carr's Beach) and then more assorted stuff including details of some of his UK gigs in 66.

Edwin's 1st ever UK live show took place @ the Mojo in Sheffield, so the one shown below (Mojo: 13th Aug 66) must have been his 2nd appearance @ the club. 

Edited March 22Mar 22 by Roburt

MORE INFO ON EDWIN'S WORK @ THAT TIME; from an old article of mine + the tinternet ...

Detroit DJ LeBaron Taylor introduced Edwin Starr to Ed Wingate and he signed Starr to a recording contract with GW. “Agent Double-O-Soul” was written by Edwin in New York in down time while fronting Bill Doggett's Band around April 65. Edwin went to see the current James Bond movie, watching it through 3 times and was inspired to pen the song. The track was produced by Richard Parker at GW and arranged by both Starr and Sonny Sanders. Released in the summer of 1965, as the anticipation for the new James Bond movie, Thunderball, was starting to build. Starr’s debut single went all the way to # 8 on the Billboard R&B chart and reached # 21 on the Hot 100. 

 The session for “Agent Double-O-Soul” was the first for future Funk Brother bassist Bob Babbitt. The fact that he was a classically trained musician came in handy when he was asked to read the introduction, which had been written out note for note by arranger Sonny Sanders. “If I hadn’t been able to read that, I don’t think they would have called me back”, Babbitt stated. “All of a sudden they were calling me about everything over there.” Babbitt’s distinctive bass line was a major factor in the single’s success.

With an instant solo hit on his hands (Double-O-Soul), Edwin had to immediately put together a backing band so that he could tour to cash in on his new found success. He didn’t really know too many available musicians in Detroit, so it was only natural that he went back to Cleveland (where he'd started his musical career) to recruit the backbone of his needed line-up. While scouting out members for his tour band, he sought out lots of his old friends from his days in Cleveland. In no time at all he had persuaded Gus Hawkins and Julius Robertson to go on the road with him. The pair stayed with him for some time before they eventually tired of living out of a suitcase and returned home to Cleveland. 

Starr also wrote his follow-up single song, “Back Street”, released in December of 1965. “Back Street” celebrated partying on the other side of the tracks. “That was pretty much a musical anthology of my life, the way I lived and how I lived and everything”, Starr said. “Back Street” was not as successful as “Agent Double-O-Soul”, however, as it peaked at # 33 on the R&B chart and only reached # 95 on the Hot 100.

 Ed Wingate used Motown’s Funk Brothers on Starr’s recordings. Berry Gordy fined any of the Funk Brothers that he caught moonlighting but that didn’t stop the practice from continuing. Both bassist James Jamerson and guitarist Dennis Coffey played on Starr’s next record, “Stop Her On Sight (S.O.S.)”. Edwin stated "a guy named Richard Morris helped with “Stop Her On Sight”. The whole idea of the song came from the television program 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. I was watching that, and they did the Morse code thing on the TV show. And that’s where I got the intro for the record.”  “Stop Her On Sight (S.O.S.)” was a Top Ten R&B hit, but it failed to make the Top 40 on Billboard’s Hot 100, peaking at # 48 in early 1966.

FROM THE ABOVE, it seems very likely that some of the Funk Brothers played on the session that produced the backing track for REAL HUMDINGER.

 

Edited March 22Mar 22 by Roburt

Scott Regan has provided some info to Paul Nixon to go with our release of (previously unissued version) of Scott’s On Swingers as the flip of Real Humdinger. Scott recalls The Fantastic Four providing backing vocals to S.O,S,

 

I became good friends with the late John Rhys before he died and he recalls literally meeting and greeting Edwin when he first arrived in Detroit, He engineered most if not all of Edwin’s recording sessions at Golden World and was exhilarated after working on the wonderful “I Have Faith In You” that at he sat down at the grand piano at the studio and without planning it found himself playing  and writing  much of “Time Will Pass You By”.

 

Pictured below with two of the nicest, and most talented people, I have had the privilege of getting to know - John Rhys and Al Kent.

According to Al Kent the situation with Golden World employing musicians that also worked for Motown did not involve fines or them needing permission to record. The situation came to a head, of sorts, when Mickey Stevenson visited Golden World in 1965 and reported back to Berry Gordy, not only about the personnel, but the incredible, state of the art equipment that the studio was using.

'After he'd gone Ed Wingate went over to visit Berry Gordy. We never had any problems with the musicians again and Ed Wingate recorded at leisure.'

Edited March 22Mar 22 by Rob Moss

A few more Edwin related bits ...

"00 Soul" really took off quickly ... it was making enough noise in July 65 for GW to put out a national ad for the 45. Also in July 65 it was a Breakout 45 right across the US (meaning it would get playlisted by most radio stns due to it's status -- even though the track was by an unknown artist on a small Detroit black owned record label). Same month it was a tipped track on quite a few R&B radio stns (in Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, New Jersey, Atlanta, Texas, etc.). It made it's entry onto the national R&B charts at the very end of the month ... AND BY ... mid August, Edwin had been added to the acts on a touring revue show (playing the Howard in DC for a week) ...  

Thought this topic was a heads up to a new release of a Edwin Starr unreleased track but it seems to have taken on a new life about Edwin's releases and concerts in the 60s and the original message seems to be lost which was to promote this new single.

Edited March 22Mar 22 by Shinehead

All info about those times helps in a small way to promote the new 45 ...

ANY PUBLICITY (discussion) IS GOOD PUBLICITY.

REAL HUMDINGER; w & m Bob Hamilton, Al Hamilton & Richard Morris. 4 1, © Myto Music, Inc.; 28Jan66; EU922279.
 

The LoC registration as referenced by Neil previously 

4 hours ago, Roburt said:

All info about those times helps in a small way to promote the new 45 ...

ANY PUBLICITY (discussion) IS GOOD PUBLICITY.

Just wish all new & reissued material got the same response Robert , instead of the occasional like , if they're legit of course.

DFTMC info on JJ's version of Real Humdinger & Edwin's tracks cut around the same time .... 

Edwin's "Stop Her On Sight" & JJ's "Real Humdinger" were on the US R&B chart at the same time, "Stop Her On Sight" making that chart a week ahead of JJ's cut. "Stop Her On Sight" looks to have been recorded on 22nd Jan 66, with JJ's "Real Humdinger" being laid down in the studio on 28th Jan. So that would mean Edwin's take on "Real Humdinger" being attempted on the 27th / 28th Jan I guess. So Edwin must have had a gig he needed to catch a plane to on Saturday 29th Jan (the BIG GIG NIGHT of each week always being on Friday & Saturday nights of course).

JUST IN PASSING: Edwin had a big seller in the UK with "Headline News", but in the US the track wasn't that successful for him -- peaking @ No.84 pop & not even making the R&B chart.

 

Interesting, those Log Sheets are stamped with Motown's name, and appear to be listing dates from 1968.

Were Motown logging these Golden World recordings, some time after the buy out in late 1966.?

Edited March 24Mar 24 by Owd Codger

Here’s the label fot the version we are releasing on 

SCOTT’S ON SWINGERS.

Fantastic 4 on backing vocals 

 

Edited March 24Mar 24 by Neil Rushton

Hope this is in the box for Sunday in Burnley Neil!

It will be.

 

Love the label logo, very good that.

Slightly confusing those memories regarding Edwin not getting the 'feel' for the track. It suggests he didn't complete the recording , walking out of the studio with his "Ego" on a truck bed LOL.

I guess the memories are faded somewhat, as I assume we'll hear a full vocal by Edwin.

Seems the Fantastic Four must have been GW's 'go to' group for backing vocals in late 65 / early to mid 66 -- the group's first release in their own right coming out in Aug 66 (Ric Tic #119).

They were on background vocals on "Scotts On Swingers" & Chuck Corby told me they were also on background when his group (Four Plus One) cut their Gene Redd / Detroit version of "Man Loves Two" around April / May 66.

2 hours ago, Owd Codger said:

Slightly confusing those memories regarding Edwin not getting the 'feel' for the track. It suggests he didn't complete the recording , walking out of the studio with his "Ego" on a truck bed LOL.

I guess the memories are faded somewhat, as I assume we'll hear a full vocal by Edwin.

Hi Larry , he walked out with is ego in a wheelbarrow lol 😂 

Just has the great pleasure of listening to sound files taken directly from the master tapes of - 

REAL HUMDINGER is 3.11 

SCOTT’s ON SWINGERS 2.27

& they both sound fantastic.

 

In his book Al wrote about Edwin storming out the studio and not completing the song. That’s not what he told me in 2018. He said then that Ed Wingate in particular felt that Edwin was more bothered about getting away to a gig than doing justice to the track and that’s why Ed suggested JJ replace Edwin.

The master I have just been enjoying listening to is certainly finished.

Also in his book Al said they overdubbed JJ on the backing track Edwin had been singing over but the version we have is not the same backing track as JJ’s Ric-Tic release - there’s different piano bits and sax solo. Fascinating stuff.

Paul Nixon has been diligently searching through the tape archives and found another finished master of Edwin’s version of Real Humdinger different from our single. And Scott’Swingers is slightly more uptempo than the version that was put out on the RIC-Tic 45.

 

Paul has been talking to Scott and he has vivid memories of how Scott’s On Swingers came about.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi

Yes...It seems so

The story gets better..from an unfinished Edwin vocal, to 2 vocals.

Looking forward to it...and the Edwin original of " Please let me in" 🙂

Edited March 24Mar 24 by Owd Codger

There’s only 1 vocal by Edwin.

There’s two different versions with the same vocal - ie different instrumental parts in each backing track.

It should be great Neil

Will start my radio show off with JJ's version, and give a plug to this new find.

Edited March 24Mar 24 by Owd Codger