Is there ever any circumstance that a specific DJ owns rights to DJ with a record?

For example, at the last Jacks at the start of the night I asked Ady if he was going to play his Nancy Wilcox "Gambler's Blue's" acetate that only he and I have copies of, as if he was not would it be ok for me to play it. Of course this was the right thing to do given the history of the record and my huge respect for him. Ady said he wasn't planning on it so it was perfectly ok for me to play it if I wanted to.

All very nice, gentlemen enjoying the night, the DJing and each others company.

That example is very black and white IMO.

Another example:

A DJ plays bootlegs of Mello Souls and the Primers amongst others. The said DJ is well respected on the scene and most of the people dancing do not even question what he is doing, after all why should they suspect he is DJing with bootlegs? Should this be allowed? Should the records be removed from the decks by people who realise what is going on especially if there are people in the room who own the originals of the records?

I think that example is pretty black and white as well. It doesn't matter who you think you are, you can't be playing bootlegs at northern soul events and I think there is a case there for militant action against the offender. Maybe I should say who it is?

Are there greyer areas?

For example, somthing like Johney Howard. Of course a bit of an oldie. But I think most people on the scene concider it a bit of a Butch play, I think most concider him to be responsible for it becoming a floor packer over recent years. Perhaps tunes like Demanding Man and the Vanguards would be similar tunes. As would Tim Brown being the first to play Jo Jama. Soul Sam was arguably responsible for Ellipsis + Hamilton Movement being what they are, although we all know where they were both played first, but let's not bring other scenes into this... Andy Dyson and Dynamite Exploded are very well assotiated I think, and I wouldn't even bother packing it in my box if I was DJing at the same night as him.

Personally I would not ever concider playing a tune on the same night if a DJ who is associated with a record is DJing, and certainly I would not play the record the set before the DJ assotiated with the record came on. I think it would be concidered a bit rude. I was surprised when Butch played Jo Jama before Tim Brown came on at Prestatyn. Should Tim have taken the record off the deck or spoken to the promoter or taken it in good humour? I think he took it in good humour as he played "Butch's" Johney Howard the next set. And although it was a bit funny, is this a serious issue?

What about if things get a bit darker. Is there ever a case for militant action against a DJ playing an original record like I believe should be used against a DJ playing bootlegs of things like Mello Souls and The Primers?

Is there ever a case for another DJ to remove an original record from the deck while another DJ is DJing with it?

Obviously I'm a bit bored this afternoon, and of course I know what I believe in. I personally would never play a record at the same night as a DJ assotiated with that record is playing at, for my own personal self respect and just because I think it's the 'right thing' to do. But has there ever been a situation in the strange and wonderful world of northern soul where one DJ has removed another DJ's record from the decks proclaiming the record to be "their" record? I'm sure somthing that ridiculous has not ever happenned, has it?

You're joking surely? This is and interesting and thought provoking discussion. Everyone on here has had an interesting and reasonable viewpoint, nothing petty about it. If anyone finds this intimidating then they should probably spend their days wrapped in cotton wool rather than getting into soul music.

If it's so interesting Matt why did JT go to such pains to impress on us that he only started it cause' he was bored ?

& yep i suppose intimidated is probably the wrong word, more than likley they would just think that there has got to be better things to do in life than squabble with grumpy old men who think that buying a crackling bit of plastic of someone else's talent somehow elevates them to a higher plane.

Just my humble opinion

It's really a no-brainer. You're getting booked and paid to entertain the crowd, not to get involved in some weird courtly ritual with your fellow dj's.

ROD

Succinct and Accurate, as ever, Rod.

Certainly doesn't entertain me, listening to an ego-fuelled set of megalomaniacs 'jockeying' for position on who played what first.

Just play the music fellas.

If someone else plays your top tune before you (on the same night) then either give it a second plug or play something else. You've got a deep enough collection to fill in any gaps... haven't you?

Sean

Succinct and Accurate, as ever, Rod.

Certainly doesn't entertain me, listening to an ego-fuelled set of megalomaniacs 'jockeying' for position on who played what first.

Just play the music fellas.

If someone else plays your top tune before you (on the same night) then either give it a second plug or play something else. You've got a deep enough collection to fill in any gaps... haven't you?

Sean

F**kin spot on :good:

Putting aside the playing of boots or VC's by big name dj's which everybody agrees is a no-no, what Im having trouble identifying with is this imaginary Royal Circle where dj's are like titled peers deserving of varying degrees of deference that appears to exist in your head, and by the replies on here is a perception not really shared by many others.

What is this 'Royal Circle' you are talking about? I don't think anyone has mentioned anything of the sort? And as for saying that somthing that has not been talked about exists in my head alone seems a little daft concidering the well thought out and interesting view points expressed on this thread by almost all who have contributed.

Talk of respect for other DJs, and giving respect to people where it is due has been talked about. But no 'royal circle', I think you're being a bit paranoid there mate

Look Rod, I'm the one who has had a record removed by another DJ, who if it does matter I hold alot of respect for, ALOT and would never ever play a record I concidered to be associated to him in anyway while we were DJing at the same night together, which doubled the shock when he decided that I was playing one of "his" records and took it off the deck. As I have said, he appologised and we have had a laugh about it, all's well that ends well. But it has raised an interesting topic, and I don't think personal swipes about "feverish imagination" and "in your head alone" are needed on such an interesting topic that has attracted alot of interest.

No one has said 'these are the rules, if you don't follow them you are wrong'. Far from it in fact. I think people like Wrighty and Mark have expressed their opinions as to how they go about DJing and have provided very interesting insight into why they DJ and how they go about it. And lets be honest, alot of DJs on the scene do tend to avoid forums for whatever reason, so any input and views from experienced DJs is very welcome IMO.

The replys on this thread have been interesting and thoughtful, I don't think any of them are contradicting anything anyone has said? Lots of informed perceptions is what I am reading?

Edited April 26, 200718 yr by James Trouble

Succinct and Accurate, as ever, Rod.

Certainly doesn't entertain me, listening to an ego-fuelled set of megalomaniacs 'jockeying' for position on who played what first.

Just play the music fellas.

If someone else plays your top tune before you (on the same night) then either give it a second plug or play something else. You've got a deep enough collection to fill in any gaps... haven't you?

Sean

Totally agree.

I don't think respecting other DJs is a sign of an ego-fueled meglomaniac though.

But as you say, if there is a crossing over of ideas or sets, you better dig deeper, and if you can't and you are only interested in the ego trip, maybe you shouldn't be up there?

If it's so interesting Matt why did JT go to such pains to impress on us that he only started it cause' he was bored ? & yep i suppose intimidated is probably the wrong word, more than likley they would just think that there has got to be better things to do in life than squabble with grumpy old men who think that buying a crackling bit of plastic of someone else's talent somehow elevates them to a higher plane.

Just my humble opinion

Come on Bogue this is a bit negative. I'm not grumpy (or old, i'm only 41 ) and i didn't see this as a 'squabble' and if people have got better things to do then let them go do it, nobody's chaining them to the keyboard. Jeeez every time we have a discussion on here some people jump in and moan that we're all having a moan and giving a bad impression etc.. etc...

It's just a bit of fun and a chat. Lighten up mate.

We are all getting on a bit and some tunes rake a lot of energy to dance to (stompers, action packed acrobatics, count less spinns) to think it is from a reissue is very disheartening

remember an instance with Dave Flynn where a DJ played a Herman Lewis first track out, I said to Dave it sounds strange, he said Stone Blue mate, I went up to the decks and there it was that funny reissue on Grooves Ville.

If a DJ broke the record in the first instance or made it big with the said boot or acetate then they should be entitled to credit and not a public execution but not from a reissue or lookalike copy.

JT, if this DJ took your original off to play the boot he wants to chill out and give you the credit for owning the tackle.

Come on Bogue this is a bit negative. I'm not grumpy (or old, i'm only 41 ) and i didn't see this as a 'squabble' and if people have got better things to do then let them go do it, nobody's chaining them to the keyboard. Jeeez every time we have a discussion on here some people jump in and moan that we're all having a moan and giving a bad impression etc.. etc...

It's just a bit of fun and a chat. Lighten up mate.

Won't !!!

Edited April 26, 200718 yr by Bogue

Won't !!!

I really am Grumpy, been trying to cure a sound problem on my pc for 3 weeks, only thing left to try is reload windows i think

Off to technical area see if someone on here can help.

James is putting too much emphasis on the importance of the DJ himself. This isn't like the dance scene where the DJ's are bigger stars than the records, it's the opposite, and if one DJ falls by the wayside there are always several waiting to take over. There are absolutely no DJ's in this country who, by their appearance on a bill, would make me travel to hear them play records I can hear at home. And there aren't many tracks that I can't hear at home, even most of these 'exclusives'. But if the music policy was right e.g. no modern or 70's, good lesser known oldies, some current top sounds, then that would make my mind up.

Having said that, I think I would make an effort to go see Ian levine.

James, if you wanna let some guy walk all over you by removing your 45 from the deck cos you respect him then it's up to you. If he has a hissy fit or an onset of PMT and you're happy to forget it {although you haven't have you?] again it's up to you.

You brought up this odd idea of a pecking order where you wouldn't play 45s associated with other dj's on the same bill as yourself. Just reminded me of royalty and class where people don't challenge behaviours due to social status.

I obviously have respect for certain people but it is based on how they conduct themselves and not on what they have in their collection and how big a name they are.

Can you honestly say that since that episode you hold that guy in the same esteem.

Im certainly not paranoid because none of this affects me in any way but you seem to wanna do the right thing by inventing some kinda courtly ritual which IMO there's no need to do. If you've got the 45s then play them. I think most of us would just think JT's got so and so's big c/u. Lucky bastard,I wish I had it.

ROD

James, if you wanna let some guy walk all over you by removing your 45 from the deck cos you respect him then it's up to you. If he has a hissy fit or an onset of PMT and you're happy to forget it {although you haven't have you?] again it's up to you.

You brought up this odd idea of a pecking order where you wouldn't play 45s associated with other dj's on the same bill as yourself. Just reminded me of royalty and class where people don't challenge behaviours due to social status.

I obviously have respect for certain people but it is based on how they conduct themselves and not on what they have in their collection and how big a name they are.

Can you honestly say that since that episode you hold that guy in the same esteem.

Im certainly not paranoid because none of this affects me in any way but you seem to wanna do the right thing by inventing some kinda courtly ritual which IMO there's no need to do. If you've got the 45s then play them. I think most of us would just think JT's got so and so's big c/u. Lucky bastard,I wish I had it.

ROD

true

James, if you wanna let some guy walk all over you by removing your 45 from the deck cos you respect him then it's up to you. If he has a hissy fit or an onset of PMT and you're happy to forget it {although you haven't have you?] again it's up to you.

You brought up this odd idea of a pecking order where you wouldn't play 45s associated with other dj's on the same bill as yourself. Just reminded me of royalty and class where people don't challenge behaviours due to social status.

I obviously have respect for certain people but it is based on how they conduct themselves and not on what they have in their collection and how big a name they are.

Can you honestly say that since that episode you hold that guy in the same esteem.

Im certainly not paranoid because none of this affects me in any way but you seem to wanna do the right thing by inventing some kinda courtly ritual which IMO there's no need to do. If you've got the 45s then play them. I think most of us would just think JT's got so and so's big c/u. Lucky bastard,I wish I had it.

ROD

Ok, I see where you are coming from. I don't think it is a 'class' or 'pecking order' type of thing though. I just think it's a respect thing, which works both ways.

I don't think it's somthing that should be expected though, which courtly ritual is, it's a rule and if you don't obey it you get stuck in the stocks or hung or beaten, or something. That would be silly, who would compile a list?

I think if someone expects that sort of treatment they obviosuly believe they are bigger than the music and bigger than the scene. So yes, I probably agree with pretty much everything you are saying, apart from the thing about class and pecking order.

Giving respect and demanding respect are totally different things.

If I personally don't want to play what I concider to be other DJs records that is surely my personal choice? I'm not being forced into it, and I'm not telling others they have to do that. I do however think it is probably a more wide spread practice than you would like to believe Rod, certain records being associated with specific DJs and other DJs respecting that. It's just good manners, isn't it?

Edited April 26, 200718 yr by James Trouble

Ok, I see where you are coming from. I don't think it is a 'class' or 'pecking order' type of thing though. I just think it's a respect thing, which works both ways.

I don't think it's somthing that should be expected though, which courtly ritual is, it's a rule and if you don't obey it you get stuck in the stocks or hung or beaten, or something. That would be silly, who would compile a list?

I think if someone expects that sort of treatment they obviosuly believe they are bigger than the music and bigger than the scene. So yes, I probably agree with pretty much everything you are saying, apart from the thing about class and pecking order.

Giving respect and demanding respect are totally different things.

If I personally don't want to play what I concider to be other DJs records that is surely my personal choice? I'm not being forced into it, and I'm not telling others they have to do that. I do however think it is probably a more wide spread practice than you would like to believe Rod, certain records being associated with specific DJs and other DJs respecting that. It's just good manners, isn't it?

James, Rod is coming to Sunderland with his beautiful wife Clare, Jacqui's best friend so we can all sit down and have a few laughs about this class thing....lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Edited April 26, 200718 yr by Mark Bicknell

"Giving respect and demanding respect are totally different things."

Of course.

Look, just do what makes you comfortable but that does not mean that other people think the same way, so if someone plays your discovery or exclusive first then it is not necessarily a sign of disrespect. In fact it's probably a compliment to you as a dj that the other guy has gone out and got it cos he heard you play it and liked it. You might have found it,you might have broke it but you really don't need to get in a frame of mind that it's your record. Im not saying you do that; just talking generally.

You have the quiet satisfaction of knowing you were the first and that should be enough, and as you've said on other threads you're probably going to move onto something else anyway once you consider a record is getting over-exposed.

I wouldn't let other dj's egos get in the way of what you feel like playing as happened with the spat you mentioned. I don't know where some guys are coming from really!!

As Mark mentioned I will be at Sunderland. I can spare you 5 minutes but no autographs please.

ROD

Edited April 26, 200718 yr by modernsoulsucks

"Giving respect and demanding respect are totally different things."

Of course.

Look, just do what makes you comfortable but that does not mean that other people think the same way, so if someone plays your discovery or exclusive first then it is not necessarily a sign of disrespect. In fact it's probably a compliment to you as a dj that the other guy has gone out and got it cos he heard you play it and liked it. You might have found it,you might have broke it but you really don't need to get in a frame of mind that it's your record. Im not saying you do that; just talking generally.

You have the quiet satisfaction of knowing you were the first and that should be enough, and as you've said on other threads you're probably going to move onto something else anyway once you consider a record is getting over-exposed.

I wouldn't let other dj's egos get in the way of what you feel like playing as happened with the spat you mentioned. I don't know where some guys are coming from really!!

As Mark mentioned I will be at Sunderland. I can spare you 5 minutes but no autographs please.

ROD

Totally agree with you there Rod.

James is putting too much emphasis on the importance of the DJ himself. This isn't like the dance scene where the DJ's are bigger stars than the records, it's the opposite, and if one DJ falls by the wayside there are always several waiting to take over. There are absolutely no DJ's in this country who, by their appearance on a bill, would make me travel to hear them play records I can hear at home. And there aren't many tracks that I can't hear at home, even most of these 'exclusives'. But if the music policy was right e.g. no modern or 70's, good lesser known oldies, some current top sounds, then that would make my mind up.

Having said that, I think I would make an effort to go see Ian levine.

[/quote

But you told me you like some 70's Pete ?

Edited April 26, 200718 yr by Simon M