Dave Moore

Hi Dave, You've certainly bought into the mainstream media's version of Motown's potted history eh? You seem to have ignored the fact that every 45 ever produced was manufactured for one reason and one reason only...to make money. 'Uncle Tom mush?' I'm sure the late greats including Popcorn Wylie, Uriel Jones, Joe Hunter, James Jamerson, Benny Benjamin, Robert White, Norma Whitfield and the master of the B3, Mr Van Dyke himslelf would appreciate their legacy being dismissed in such derogatory fashion. The FACT is that many of the soul oriented Detroit labels of the early sixties were in fact NOT doing so well which is why Gordy's empire gobbled them up. I would hardly hold the Fortune imprint up as an example of a rival to Motown either. Different eras, different music. The Isley Bros track you refer to was in fact a version of the The Miracles track from their LP. I first heard both versions back in the late 70s. It's been around turntables since then. You mention the 'boy Wilson' as being the most successful producer Motown had? I think you'll find that Lamont Dozier is not just Motown's most successful producer but is streets ahead in terms of commercial success than anyone from any label/genre. That includes Elvis, The Beatles..blah blah blah. Motown directionless around 1963? With licencing developing all over the world, with a number of smash hits in place, the Talent Development Division in full flow, with the corporations Tamla, Gordy and Motown imprints vying for release at the quality control Fridays, the Snakepit running 24 hours a day and the company owning it's own Studios, PR department and publishing company thus ensuring the cash flow yep....all sounds pretty directionless to me. LOL! The bottom line is...if you speak to 99% of the label owners of the era, (including ones from other cities around the States), they will tell you categorically...they all wanted the success that Gordy had generated. Many of them used his format to try and gain a foothold. Many were successful and many fell by the wayside but the INFLUENCE on other black music makers of the day is absolutely unquestionable. From the Philly DynoDynamics team, the LA Mirwood set up, Carl Davis' output in Chicago, Gamble and Huff's development of TSOP, not forgetting of course the Pied Piper contributions, Revilot, Carnival, Groovesville, Arctic, Shrine, etc etc all heldd up Motown as the beacon to emulate. The thought of Motown 'poaching' back room staff as the company grew is ridiculous. Many of the later contributors actually went banging on 2648 WGB's door! So....it's obviously all about opinions but I'd say it was anything but insulting to suggest that Gordy's musical contribution was an example that many thought to repeat but would venture that the more astute amongst them would use his success to further their own aspirations, a great example being LeBaron Taylor who rose to be Vice President of CBS. To PaulB.... Soak it all up Mate. It's fantastic. All of it. Rare, not rare, uptempo, downtempo, oldies, newies, overplayed, underplayed, 45s,33s, EPs LPS, who cares....just soak it all up. I've been doing this for 35 years and STILL hear stuff for the first time and think WOW whilst the next 45 I hear may be an oldie that did the same 35 years ago. I defy anyone to listen to The Elgins 'Heaven Must Have Sent You' and not recognise the brilliance of it. Forget the baggage...LISTEN TO THE BLEEDIN' MUSIC and the people who created it.!

I've asked the Harthon Trio if the name rings any bells. Will report back once they've replied.

Nice Bullet Minter en route. 25 quid for a Yew copy? I rate it at a fiver! There's also a VG one on Gemm for $40 if anyone else wants a Bullet stock copy but ain't to fussed about it being a minter. (23.00UK)

Sure....I'd pay 25/30 squidleys for it. I prefer to hunt them down myself but I'd pay that for one. Let me know Mate either way.

You may be right Bob, I've just never come across it before.

Hi Rod, I thought you'd picked up the W/Demo a couple of yeras ago? Strange I've never come across the stocker before, I thought it may be blue. Thanks for posting.

Hey Tim, That would be great. Many Thanks. I'm on the hunt for one now too!

Dave Are the track listings to these EPs the same as the US EP equivelents or are there one or two 'niceties' nestling in there somewhere?

Sourced from drummer extraordinaire George MacGregor if I remember correctly, along with one or two other niceties. George was involved with Washpan/Sidra.

If you have a stock issue could you post a scan of it Mate please? I've not seen a stocker of the Bullet release yet. Much obliged.

Had lots of emails over the past week that may have gone unanswered. Apolgies for the inconvenience but Bev had a rather nasty accident and has been in hospital in Spain this past week. She undergoes surgery today and hopefully will be 'back at it' after the weekend. All magazines, weekender tickets will be sorted then. Don't worry, everything will be back on track admin wise when 'the boss' is back at her laptop. Message from Bev is 'Normal service WILL be resumed asap'. Thanks for everyone's patience. Many thanks for all the good wishes I've passed them on to her.

I completed the UK Motown catalogue in 1989, which included the London, Fontana, Oriole, Stateside stuff. I'd been collecting them since around 1978. Completed the day I found the Spinners Columbia Issue and Demo together in Vinyl Solution for 15UKP each. (Not really Motown but hey ho). The TMGs were demos where applicable up to 900 but the Stateside were a mish mash of issues and demos. In 1991 I sold the entire collection to buy a motorcycle, (which I still own). In 1995 I decided to have a crack at the US catalogue (on Demos where applicable). I gave up three years ago, it was just too overwhelming although I have just about the whole Northern catalogue on mint Demos on all the labels. I've now started on the company's European Pic Sleeves, which I suspect I may also abandon eventually as I'm not sure I want to buy 8 different copies of The Supremes - Where Did Our Love Go! (I have 5 already!)

Hi Richard, I have the scans stored and am hoping to update the listings the week after next. Real life getting in the way at the moment. I'll drop you a line once everything's in place.

I have number of additions to add to the Ric Tic discography on the Hitsville Forum when I get the time. I reckon it'll be the most comprehensive Ric Tic listing there is once it's all in place. Then we can lok to complete the Reo (Ric Tic) stuff too just to round it all off. It's a long slow process but we'll get there in the end. On another note...anyone found a Bob and Earl - Everybody Jerk - Loma 20004 yet???? It's in all the listings but I've yet to see one. That's another Hitsville discography we're looking to put to bed.

Mary Wells - Fancy Free - Atco W/DEMO Betty Everett - Love Comes Tumbling - ABC W/DEMO Pat Lundy - Any Day Now - Columbia W/DEMO Lovemasters - Pushin' and Pullin' - Jacklyn The Dynamos - You Can Do It By Yourself - Dynamo

Dani, Played it at Hitsville last year. (Keep up Mate!). They also did another on Tower..."I'm Lost" although that one is a little more 'frantic'. See you in Valencia on 18th.

Thought I'd give this another whirl...... Cash waiting for Buster and Eddie - Can't Be Still- Class DEMO. MUST be EX at least.

Confirmation, if any was needed that you are indeed 'barking' Mr Darcyboy. And a tad deaf I'd wager!

It's an old (but good), question and one that will inevitably throw up many significant names. Many of the Jazz greats and the blues legends certainly spring to mind initially. But the question of 'which artist had really paved the way for other black artists to reach the great American public?' leads to only one real answer. Up until Berry Gordy many artists were successful but most were in their own 'communities'or 'genres'. Sure, Sam Cooke was popular on both sides of America's racial divide but it was Gordy who OWNED the first businesses that transcended that divide. May seem surprising that it was as late as the late 50s before any black musical monatary muscle was finally flexed but there you have it. Mr Berry Gordy Jr. Not only a pioneer in musical terms but a beacon of an example for literally thousands of other artists both at the time and ever since. There are some fantastic people who have achieved many things in soul music but success breeds success, and competition, so without the breakthroughs made at West Grand Boulevard it would have been much harder for the people who followed. The key phrase in the question, for me anyways, wasn't so much 'who paved the way' but rather 'the great American public'. From literally nothing, to the countries biggest black owned business, in one decade. BG gets my vote.

Think I still have one of these on the shelves. If you're not sorted by next week give me a shout. I'm away from home at the minute until next Wednesday.

Neil, You Sir, should be burnt at the stake! Best Dave

That was just it fo me. To me it's all bass. Also sounded 'muffled'. Great potential as a backing track I agree, but I couldn't decide whether it was male/female or duet either at first. Little Carl Carlton is a fair shout but I'd also not rule out someone like the L'il Soul Brothers or the like. I quite liked it and did so on first hearing though.

Pete, Was watching this (as were a few others I'll bet), you're right about the backing track but the vocal was (is) atrocious. I'd put my money on a Detroit production too. It sounded (s) unfinished to me, almost like a demo. The production was certainly poor which in my opoinion would rule out any Wylie/Hestor connection. (Unless it was actually unfinished). Nice sound though and if the vocal had been better it may have been winging it's way to my place as opposed to Wombourne. Nice buy either way.

Cash waiting. Must be EX with no wol, sol, H20, ringwear or any of that ole gubbins.