Steve G

Wow great website even includes the dreaded AMG label.....

Paul Anka "When we get there" And ARkwright - yes Tony Blackburn was massive at Wigan for a few weeks. Speaking of which Ron Grainer "Joe 90" - Ron was a tremendous creator of TV themes, and did loads of good ones, but this one obviously "crossed over" to the northern scene.

It's actually a bit harder on a 7 than many people think. They are around though.

Yes this will be a real sad loss. I do believe David will contribute in other ways so watch this space as they say. Meanwhile there are another three issues to go...

Yes always thought this was a Hispanic group. Great record.

I still write Fragile handle with care onm the rare occasions I post a record. It might make a difference as others have said, it just depends.

A real shame, hope John gets somewhere else. The October events had their own vibe.

£6 I'd say

Perhaps he is trying to get his feedback up by buying his own records, and then leaving positive feedback

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to Belita.....I am old enough to remember when "Lovin is really my game" first came out

Wendy Woods 68 Basic sounds of Pittsburg 84-85 Pages 78 Think KL Hamilton is late 80s

Plenty of topics crossing into this one, but on the pop front ...... Wigan did get very commercial towards the end - the dreadful Casino Classics label, Disco Connection five times a night and Prince Buster in the main room etc. It seemed as the numbers started to dwindle, the music was diluted. Or was it the other way round??? the music got diluted and the numbers dwindled??? It all seemed to change around 77 when three or four Bobby Goldsboro records were being spun. I did write about this in very early Blackbeats (called Northern Line then). There was pop before 77 for sure, including the manic "Joker" / Mirwood instrumentals of the mid 70s courtesy of simon Soussan that oh hang on.....our mate RW seemed to champion. My recollection was that in the late 70s whilst all DJs played some pop, including Richard, Russ was one of the worst offenders, along with Keith "Love Hustle", Jackie Trent, Muriel etc. So there is a common theme......Russ and pop and I don't care what anyone else says, mud sticks. But he is not on here, so I am not going to slag him off any more than that, he does seem quite a friendly cove so....Checking out too....and awaiting the next BBC installment of "Now do you remember the 70s and dancing allnight and do you remember Northern Soul the underground sound of the 60s?. Well it may surprise you to know that all these years later -it is still going strong. Ladies and Gentlement please welcome Russ Winstanley, former DJ at the hallowed Wigan casino" (audience applause). We should run a sweepstake on which show it'll appear on.....

The trouble is Northern soul is a meaningless term at this point in time. It encompasses everything from Motown spins in the early 70s, through Wigan, Stafford, 100 Club, Oldies, Newies, through to todays fragmented scene. That makes covering it very hard. I have seen some good documentaries - The Cleethorpes one was good, and the Colin Curtis one Central TV did was excellent. Look at this lot of youngsters then

Hi Russ, Russ W is quite a nice guy when you talk to him - but he doesn't really know anything about the music (his book proved that), or the scene in the 30 years post Wigan closing - and that is what turns people off. A bit of nostalgia once in a while is OK, but it's the "Same old song" everytime with RW and his numerous TV appearances. In fairness to the guy he does draw a crowd whenever he plays so Rugby take note! However you know you are going to get Frank Wilson with the dodgy stuck on label, Tommy Hunt, Flirtations etc. and the same 25 sounds. He has an agent as well? That'll explain how he keeps getting the BBC 'gig' then. Peace Love and Harmony......

Well I won't waste ten minutes of my life watching it. Have seen it all before Russ and his memories. Chas - The comment about Teddy Boys is spot on. Ste - I don't think we should put up with sub standard journalism, especially from the Beeb. I expect it in "The Metro" which is all freelance journos feeding off of the web and emailing in articles, but just once couldn't the BBC do something a bit better?....

Yes acetates with no artist ID are a challenge. I have quite a few northern ones, I am afraid I give them all "names"...Steve

Whatever it was, it was also a long time ago. Butch had it and played it for quite a while before it got uncovered. Simon, it's hardly a "recent" example and doesn't illustrate the point you are trying to make at all.....as the world has moved on a lot since those days. Everyone and their dog is on-line now trying to find stuff, and as George says a lot of it is chasing sounds that others are playing / breaking.

The white labvel thing is a boot. The Grapevine mix is different to the Koko 7" mix. Cheers Steve

Yes of course Paul that's why it's a forum for differing views. If we all agreed it would be pretty damn boring. I must admit I don't understand covering up new releases which are easily available to everyone, and clearly that does depive the artist of sales, recogition etc. Just trying to make the point that tracking down truly unknown 60s and 70s records is pretty hard at this point, and not a cheap pasttime either. That's why a DJ will cover up something, and yes it is selfish, have never said otherwise. Most of the knockers of cover ups on the rare soul scene, don't play on that pitch, and that's fine. If they did they might see it slightly differently. See you at Womack then!

Easy to say from your armchair Martin, but what new sounds have you (or any of the other knockers) broken / contributed to the rare soul scene in the last 10 years then? Very easy to knock others when youre not actually on the front edge of buying / breaking new sounds in an oldies dominated environment.

An interesting perspective Nick but I still think there is a DJ exclusive angle to it all. By way of example I reckon if I had covered up the DoubleOO Demingoes when I first played it, it would still be covered / unknown just because of the lack of an obvious chorus etc. When I first played it, it cleared the floor, and although several people came up, it clearly was not a "play safe" track, and likely did cause offence to certain elements of the crowd. I also paid quite a bit for it, but thought it had that something different and worthy of spins. I played it uncovered and listed it in playlists and a small number of other copies have since been sourced / played, to the point where at one gig recently the two DJs both on before me both had it. So I didn't even bother to take it with me. With heinsight and purely from a selfish perspective, I should have covered it up then......

£122 for Yvonne & Violets - crikey I paid that for it about 20 years ago! Has it become that unfashionable?

Hi Dave, this years Prestatyn sales area was unbelievable. More clothes and NS tat than there were records. I am not surprised people are disillusioned with it all, it's gone from an underground scene to a perfect copy of what's left of the rock n roll scene. Put any of the DJs mentioned on this thread on in your town and you'll get less through the door than you will if you book Dustbin and his Wigan roadshow, with reissues etc. Anyway all the best to Butch and Mick, whatever they decide to do.

We did this to death some years ago, if not on here on another forum. The chances of a rare soul artist getting money from a play at a rare soul venue is virtually nil. And that's if the artist is entitled to anything, they may have been paid in full for the session. You conveniently seem to forget to mention writers or copyright owners, who may well be different to the artist. The whole area is not clear as you suggest and the real likelihood is that 5c for a play of a really obscure record at a rare soul venue would end up in Madonna's fur lined trousers. To suggest otherwise suggests you do not really understand the nature of records played on the rare soul scene. We are not talking about Impressions 45s here. By it's very nature at this stage of the game anything covered up is likely to be very obscure indeed. It's different when a record is legally reissued as a 45 because the person putting it out, tracks down those that own the rights to the music (be it artist or otherwise) and pay them. Here too they don't neccesarily pay the artist. And it again gets murkier when you get into compilation CDs. Let's look at a simple case in point. A double CD of Dore rercords, let's assume it was legal. Do you honestly think the 60 or so artists on that compilation got anything for their record being included on the CD? Of course they didn't - the company that put it out, paid for the rights to the tracks from the copyright owner. I bet even the Whispers didn't get paid, let alone someone like Ray Marchant. Rather than lecturing Chalky and I about your perception of our lack of respect for artists, something you know nothing about since you don't know us, please do yourself and everyone else a favour by actually taking a bit of time to actually understand both the music business, and the rare soul scene, rather than pontificating hypotheticals and spouting nonsense from your armchair. And the irony of your "cover up" name on here is not lost on me either And then please find me these artists who have lost out as a result of "cover ups".

........And on the "Was my record good" front, Little Richard described his O'Keh recordings as "the worst he'd ever made" rather shockingly, and Betty Lavette hates her northern stuff apparantly. It is absolutely done for the DJs benefit, said it before and I'll say it again - to get some longevity out of the digging, research, hassle, buying cost whatever around a rare 45. Yes I used to insist Guy H only review uncovered records in Blackbeat - it lead to a regular flow of "uncovering", including things like Casanova Bennett. But the scene then was very different in the Stafford days and there were plenty of new unplayed and relatively undiscovered things, so Guy for example could keep turning them over. Not the same today, there is not an endless supply of unknown records.....and the prices for genuine unknowns are not cheap (I am not talking here about 3rd division cover ups). Steve