Robbk

That's too bad. I guess I should have talked to Bunky about him, when I had the chance.

Yes, Karl was an excellent songwriter and producer. He was something like the "Popcorn Wylie of Chicago or Don Juan Mancha of Chicago", an independent producer/songwriter, who worked with just about everyone and every record label of consequence, in his city. I love his songwriting, both on uptempo songs and ballads. I think his style fit best with Carl Davis' productions, but I also like lots of his indie-tiny label work. I really don't know anything about his personal life. I never met him, or anyone with whom he worked closely. Bob Pruter would be the best source for information about him. Although Bob hasn't written much about Karl, he'd know more than what's been written. Someone ought to contact him.

I don't get why Jobete or Brohun wanted to publish them. And I can't figure out what happened to make that happen. Did Thomas first take them all to Jobete? Then, when the song eventually bought by Brohun was rejected by Jobete, as were the 2 I.H. published songs, Thomas took the rejected songs to Brohun, who bought only the one? Clearly, both Jobete and Brohun made no money on those 2 songs, other than the small fee they charged him to publish them.

Who were the writers of "Crying Tears Of Joy" and "I'm Gonna Take You"? Were Joe Hunter or Fred Brown involved in writing the BroHun song?

Jesse and The James Boys is Jesse James (an East Coaster. Jesse Thomas is likely to have been a local Detroiter, given that his label shows Detroit as the location, AND that the 2 music publishers we see on the labels, Jobete and Brohun, were both located in Detroit. Previously, I saw the "I.H." printed on the label of "I'm Gonna Take You" near the area where the music publisher would be, and I couldn't read the blurred printing below it. So, I thought "I.H." was Thomas' other (his own) music publisher. But BlackpoolSoul's posting a scan showing "Brohun Music" to show a connection, helped me figure out that the music publisher on "I'm Gonna Take You" 's label is "Brohun", which was the music publisher owned by the partnership of Joe Hunter and Fred Brown, who ran Kable, Mickay's, and Ring Records. I.H., the abbreviation of the label's name, was located in front of the record's catalogue number. Now, I'm even more shocked. Thomas somehow got BOTH Motown AND Hunter/Brown to publish his weak "vanity" level songs, and somehow got the money or found a backer, to pay for their recording and pressing (at least a minimum run). I can tell from the sound of his singing voice that Thomas is NOT Wyatt Shepherd, nor is he Carl Carlton.

I had thought I saw "Crying Tears Of Joy" and "I'm Gonna Take You" with Jobete Music on them, but I remembered wrongly. Seeing all 3 of those different-coloured 45s above, gave me the impression that ALL his songs were published by Jobete. Now, I see that all 3 of those I remembered were "My Angel Baby", and "A Lonely Sheppard Boy" was "I.H. Music", and the credits on "I'm Gonna Take You" were unreadable, and so short, that they are a LOT more likely to read "I.H. Music", than "Jobete".

I get your point. But, I made my statement based on the fact that his songs are very simple, not good, at all, in my estimation, and grossly unlike virtually ALL Jobete Music songs I've ever heard from the period of 1965-66. And they were WRITTEN by him (Jesse Thomas). He got them published by Jobete Music, sold them to Jobete, and leased them back so he could record them???

But why would Jobete Music already reaching a very high point of prestige and money-earning potential, publish some poor-quality songs written by a songwriter-wannabee, with not all that much singing talent (based on Motown's 1964-65 standards? Why would they publish songs from an unsigned writer and singer on a "vanity project"?

Are you making a joke? BOTH the music and the voices on The Royal Imperials' cut sound NOTHING like those on Billy Butler and The Enchanters' record. They are another group singing someone else's song, with a different arrangement and musicians, recorded in a different studio in a different city, with the label owner changing the song's title, and placing bogus credits on the label, ostensibly to "steal" royalties.

They must have been negotiating for the lease arrangement, and it fell through at the last minute.

I boght it new on Calla in 1967 or 1968. I've never seen it on Parkway. Calla was distributed by Cameo-Parkway at that time. I don't remember Cameo or Parkway leasing any Calla records to put out on one of their own labels.

Yes. I never meant to imply that Northern Soul high prices for rare records are in any way related to "a con job", or any kind of trickery or chicanery.

During the 1960s through 1980s, the market for DooWop/Old R&B records rose steadily, as the youthful fans of that music became middle-aged, and prosperous in their work, and could afford to bid up the prices. But, during the early 2000s, as those fans died off, or became too old to care, or needed the money for health care costs, the market prices started a precipitous fall, that has excelerated with each passing year. Fairly rare records i saw priced in the thousands can now be bought for $100 or $200, and many that were in the several hundreds can be bought for less than $75, or even $50. That will also happen to Northern Soul records, eventually.

Got it mixed up with the British film, "The Crying Game".

Thus the spelling difference. Thanks for clearing that up.

I have read that in several places, but have no direct first or second-hand knowledge on that question.

Brenda Holloway's "Crying Game" listed above is VERY CLOSE to her unreleased Motown song, "Crying Time". Did she actually sing two songs with those titles, or is "Crying Game" an error?

There was no Sidra 9001/9002. That number in the Sidra number series was used by Team Town #9001/9002 - Ronnie & Robin "Cradle of Love"/"Dreamin' ", just as W.I.G. Records shared Sidra's number series. I never saw any of those Team Town or W.I.G. Records show up on a Sidra pressing of those numbers. Here's Team Town 9001/9002:

The only regional variation should have been caused by some pressing plants having larger stock of the older 3 colour blank labels left over after the change, and using them until all used up. That period might have been 6 months to a little over a year.

Yes, that's a legit issue I saw during the 1960s. It is the styrene - looks like the Monarch pressing.

I Wow!!! This song is a direct stealing of "My Heart Is Hurtin' " written by Billy Butler, and recorded by Billy Butler and The Enchanters, and released on Okeh Records in 1964. What a nerve! And Sylvester "Sly" Stewart produced this in L.A., and took half credit for writing it! No way these singers are Billy Butler and The Enchanters. Mellow Town was located in L.A. (or. at least pressed there). Stewart worked out of The San Francisco Bay Area and L.A. The singers sound like they could possibly be The Servicemen. I first saw the Patheway orange release at least a year later than the Chartmaker (1966), and the Wind Hit in the late '60s (1968 or 1969). The multi-coloured Patheway is a late '60s label (1968, 1969 or 1970?). So, I'm convinced it was a (legitimate) later pressing (re-issue). The dates for the Chartmaker, Mellow Town, and 2 Patheway releases should be traceable by their Delta press code numbers. Wind Hit was a Phoenix label, and I'm not sure what plant pressed it. The Roy & The Dew Drops looks like a Chicago pressing plant label style and font from 1969-73.

How could you leave out The Monitors' "Crying In The Night", Carolyn Crawford's "Lover Boy" and "Until You Came Along", The Contours' "Baby Hit and Run", Tammi Terrell's "All I Do (Is Think of You)" and The Marvelettes' "I Should Have Known Better"? I'd have used Jimmy Ruffin's great vocal version of "On The Avenue". What about Shorty Long's great "A Woman Just Won't Do Right"?

That name is also on "Soul In The Back-Yard" on Mas-Ter Records, sung by Don. It stands to reason that he shortened his real name to the "catchy" name, "Heart" (and trying "Hart", as well), for his stage name, which is a lot more easy to remember and pronounce.

So...... his real name is Donald Erquhart!

Thanks! I see that they ARE the same group, having sung the 2 Double Check cuts. The 3 ladies dominated the sound on "You're Acting Kind of Strange", so as to sound like an all-female group. The 2 men's voices are strong on their Double Check cuts.