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Robbk

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Everything posted by Robbk

  1. Wasn't his name spelt: "Morris" - not "Maurice"?
  2. Motown DIDN'T succeed in marketing Gospel, nor Jazz, and had only limited success with 1959-63 R&B. They were successful in marketing Pop and Soul Music to teens, young adults and middle-aged people in both The Black Community and the general US population, and various "foreign" populations, around The World. So, are we just differing over semantics?
  3. Bobby Bland should have sued Davis for stealing his "Soul" and his identity! Actually, I think this is really Bobby, moonlighting.
  4. Having been inside the company, and watching what they tried to sell, and knowing Berry Gordy's taste from the beginning, and his goals, I just can't imagine Motown trying to hide the fact that they had "White" production people working for them. From Gordy's entry into the music business, he was trying to make music to sell to as many people as possible across as many music genres as possible. He tried C&W, Garage Band, Surf, Rock-a-Billy, hard Rock, Gospel, Jazz, in addition to Blues, R&B and Soul. He failed at selling much of any of the genres other than R&B and Soul, because his marketing people didn't have the knowledge of those markets, nor the connections to get them distributed and marketed in the right channels for the potential customers in those markets to even be exposed to the recordings. He planned to call his record company "Tammy" Records (but the name was already taken). Clearly, he wanted to make good music in any genre which he could sell records and make a profit. This was aimed at the widest audience possible. I think he would avoid at all costs, the image of being an all Black firm. I don't think he'd have tried to hide the fact that "a White L.A. woman played base on many Motown recordings, any more than he'd used a given Black musician. He didn't want the names of his musicians known by the general public, because he didn't want them to become stars in their own right, and demand high salaries, and with that, also have the courage to leave his employ, knowing they could command big money because of having a well-known name as a recording artist. People at Motown, including Berry Gordy, would only have a beef with Carole Kaye because she deliberately worded her comments, ambiguously, to make it sound like she played on hit versions of hit songs; and then when people took the bait and assumed that she did, she kept quiet and allowed people to believe that; and later, when the questions were very specific, she probably didn't come clean, but rather, confronted with documentation proving her wrong, told lies, to avoid appearing to have been dishonest, earlier. They would have had no problem having her name known as a Motown session player, among all the other players, IF they wanted names of any session players known. I beg to differ with your attempted point that Jamerson was a "poster boy" and Babbitt received little fanfare from Motown. During Motown's heyday, NO session musicians were touted, nor received credits on records. Only band leaders, such as Joe Hunter, Maurice King, Choker Campbell and Earl Van Dyke received billing (at the head of their band names) on posters and venue marquees. Jamerson never got feature billing until after Motown moved to L.A. Gordy didn't want ANY of his musicians, "White or Black or Yellow or Red" to be known by the public, lest they demand star's wages or fly the coop.
  5. No! They had multiple marketing strategies. With Jr. Walker, Shorty Long and Gladys Knight & The Pips towards the Black and "cool White kids", and The Supremes. Marvelettes, Four Tops, Miracles, Temptations, Martha & Vandellas, Marvin Gaye etc. to ALL audiences.
  6. Same for me. Much of what she claimed was too ridiculous. She's lost her grip on reality in her early old age (a lot sooner than most people do). Too bad. A shame that a good artist's work is questioned in the minds of many people by ridiculous claims, just because The Internet reaches so many people.
  7. I seem to remember also having The Coronadas on a local Chicago plant pressing (same plant as Classmates), not the Monarch L.A. pressing shown above, and I seem to remember it not being distributed by Atlantic. I'll have to check it when I get home.
  8. Coolectively, we, here at Soul-Source are a very knowledgeable group when it comes to Soul music! If SOMEONE here can't answer the question, there''s a good chance that NO ONE can!. Imagine........ I reside in The Netherlands, but never imagined a Dutch bootlegger would press up Sweet Soul records for The Surinååmse Sweet Soul Scene, onto the wrong label, but one that would be the correct label in some other countries! I'm glad I only collect US and Canadian issues, as there is too much out there to learn regarding other Worldwide releases that I couldn't possibly fit into my memory storage area.
  9. That CAN'T be an original US pressing. That HAD to have been made in a different country, but why isn't Universal or whatever manufacturer made it in that country listed on the label border, and why isn't the country listed, as well? It has the US catalogue and pressing numbers, but I don't think it was pressed in USA before I left in 1972.
  10. Almost all records were thicker during the '50s (especially early '50s, than they were later.
  11. I have seen the Maycon many times and NEVER seen the Master Sound. I suspect that Master Sound was the original, and only sold in the Philadelphia Metro Area, and Maycon distributed it at least in the Northeast and South. I don't think it ever got to the West or Midwest during its release run..
  12. Robbk posted a post in a topic in All About the SOUL
    Yes, Chico Leverette left The Satintones first, then James Ellis. Vernon Williams from The Royal Holidays came in as the new lead singer. Williams, Mack and James Crawford formed the nucleus of The new Pyramids, after Bateman and Sanders left The Satintones.
  13. Robbk posted a post in a topic in All About the SOUL
    Bateman said in an interview some years ago, that in March 1962, Mickey Stevenson told him that Wilbur Golden, who was starting up his own new record company (Correc-Tone Records), was offering big salaries for Motown's key production people to come work for him, Stevenson told him that Eddie and Brian Holland were joining him in jumping ship. Apparently, all of Motown's production staff felt that Berry Gordy was making enough money by early 1962, to allow him to pay them livable salaries. Bateman quit Motown, and was hired by Golden. He brought his friend from The Satintones, Sonny Sanders, with him. Then, when it was too late to go back to Motown. Bateman found out that Stevenson, and both Holland Brothers had NEVER quit Motown, because Berry Gordy offered them decent salaries to stay, and, in addition, bought them, each, new Cadillacs. Apparently, Stevenson and The Hollands used Golden's offers as leverage to get decent salaries from Gordy, and Bateman had some bad luck in quitting outright before really considering his options. Or, Gordy didn't value Bateman's talents enough to offer him what he offered the others. Probably, no one will ever know now. In any case, Robert Bateman wanted to produce on his own, and would have left within the next few years, as Stevenson had the job he wanted. After finding out that Stevenson and The Hollands weren't coming to him, Golden then offered Bateman Stevenson's promised Correc-Tone A&R and chief producer job, and a big bonus to plan and oversee the building of his new recording studio. Popcorn Wylie also moved to Correc-Tone, and Bateman and Sanders brought with them the remaining Satintones, who were reformed into The Pyramids. Janie Bradford moonlighted for Correc-Tone as a songwriter (under the pen name of Nikki Todd). The Supremes moonlighted there as background singers. Bateman ran Correc-Tone's production in 1962 and 1963. But, as Golden was constantly strapped for cash, and couldn't pay him, Robert began producing for himself as an independent producer, mainly leasing his productions to other labels, working mainly out of New York, starting in late 1963. He still worked part-time in Detroit, through 1964.
  14. Robbk posted a post in a topic in All About the SOUL
    He was 80 years old when he breathed his last. He was one of my favourite songwriters and producers, and a very nice man. May he rest in peace.
  15. ARP was located in Michigan, so it is Midwest, NOT "East Coast". Motown used RCA in Eastern Pennsylvania and occasionally, a New York plant for East Coast distribution.
  16. Aha! The famous Bob "Two Sheds" Jackson-Mays!!!!
  17. I guess there was a special promo press run of several regular issues that had red vinyl for some particular reason. I've just never heard why they did that.
  18. The promo was to be a black on white issue, slated for red vinyl. I never heard of special demo records with tye store stock label and red vinyl. Perhaps this was just a pressing error, that the wrong label was placed onto a red vinyl pressing?
  19. Steve Mancha, Melvin Davis, Edward Hamilton and Clifford Binns all sound like each other at times. J.J. Barnes sounded like Marvin Gaye at times. L.C. Cook(e) sounded like his brother, Sam, much of the time, as Ike Cole did like his brother, Nat. Johnny Moore sounded like Rudy Lewis on some songs, and like Clyde McPhatter on others, as did Bobby Hendricks. Charley Thomas sounded a lot like Ben E. King on some songs. Earl Grant sounded like Nat Cole. Tonnes of Chicago Soul groups with a falsetto lead sounded like Curtis Mayfield (Carltons, Naturals, Classics, Classic Sullivans, etc.) Brook BentonArthur prysock and Billy Eckstine sometimes sounded like each other.
  20. Robbk posted a post in a topic in Look At Your Box
    There are some European 45s, for which there were no US nor UK 45s issued (e.g. only LP cut or vinyl unreleased in USA), that should be highly prized on The Northern Scene. The same should hold true for Australian, New Zealander, African, Asian and Canadian issues in that same situation.
  21. MoDo should have an ice hockey player on the label. Our Swedish and Finnish members would get my drift.
  22. Although the voice of the male lead sounds a bit higher and smoother than J.J.'s, it has some of his mannerisms. And, as Barnes wrote the song, I can't help thinking that maybe this recording was a 1960 or 1961 recording by J.J., for Fred Brown's Kable Records, and J.J.'s Mickay's Records version of "Teenage Queen" (from late 1963 or early 1964) was a remake. I would bet against the background girls being The Primettes, without seeing some evidence. I wonder what Craig isn't telling us?
  23. Thanks! Based on those two snippets, I can tell that the recordings were made in Detroit. And, it IS, indeed, the song "Teenage Queen", written by Joe Hunter and Fred brown. And the musicians sound like Joe Hunter's band (same as those used with j.j. Barnes. The male lead vocalist's voice sounds very familiar 9a known Detroit artist). His voice is smoother and higher than J.J.'s. The other song, "Someone"? is unknown to me. The sound is from 1962. The girls' voices could possibly be The Supremes. i definitely do NOT hear Diana Ross' voice. I don't know if i hear Mary or Flo. Can't tell if Barbara Martin is there. I guess, the songs could also be from 1961 (potentially before The primettes signed with Motown. I wonder where Craig got the information that The primettes were on that record. The girls in the background are certainly not The Del-Fi's/Vandellas. We need to find out more about these 2 recordings.
  24. The girls singing background on The J.J. Barnes record don't sound like The Dell-Fi's or Vandellas, who usually backed him, but sound like they could possibly have been The Supremes (but I don't think they were). The singer on this demo record is "unknown", so it can't be J.J. Barnes, as Craig certainly must have heard that version before. Maybe the lead is one of the same two male singers (James Dee (Duddley) or Walt Jessup) who had those small indie New York label releases in 1962-63 (on Enrica and Pussy Cat Records), giving The Primettes label credit? I've listened to those New York productions, and they sound nothing like Detroit, and the voices sound nothing like The Supremes. I'm very curious to hear "Teenage Queen", especially to hear if it's the same track, or, at least the same song as J.J. Barnes sang. I hope that whoever buys it will want to get help authenticating it, and will post at least snippets of it on a forum I frequent (this one, or Soulful Detroit's Motown Forum), so we can hear it.
  25. Primettes sing backgrounds on "Teenage Queen" Craig Moerer is selling this studio demo record of "Teenage Queen" for $300,(same song as Joe Hunter and Fred Brown's J.J. Barnes' cut on Mickay's Records from 1963 - so he says), listing it as The Primettes backing up an unknown singer. I don't remember seeing "Teenage Queen" as one of the songs they performed backup. Martha and The Vandellas (Del-Fi's/Del-Phi's) backed up on many of the Joe Hunter/Fred Brown productions (even as late as early 1964). So, as Joe Hunter was still leading The Funk Brothers in mid 1964, he could have brought the Supremes in to moonlight in mid 1963 (while under contract to Motown, but still before they had any hits). OR, could Robert West have used The Primettes in 1960 or 1961, before they signed with Motown, and the song never had a release until J.J. Barnes' Mickay's release in 1963? However, the second scenario isn't very likely, asJ.J. Barnes wrote that song.

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