Robbk

Hi Mel. Nice to see you on here. We've both got about 2,200 posts, and yet, we've never posted on the same thread??? How is that possible? We must have both posted on at least 5,000 of the same threads on Soulful Detroit, since 2001. Oh yeah....... I forgot to list Ian Melia.

Rod Shard. He heard about me, and contacted me in 1979 or so. Then, he visited me starting in 1980 or 1981, and did so every year through the 1980s and early 1990s. He was the first actual friend I made on The NS scene. Why: Because he found me a lot of great records over those years, and he hoovered my flat (so he could breathe). I was also friendly with Dave Withers. But, I had dealings with Martin Koppel, Dave Raistrick, Nev Wherry, Tim Ashibende (posing as "John Sullivan"), Ady Croasdell, Tony Rounce, John Manship, John Anderson, Bob "Larry" Wagner, and Larry (Snakepit), who used to go to The Twisted Wheel. I also had several meetings with Simon Soussan (but, I wouldn't call him a "mate"). Of course, I also visited Rod and Dave in Lancashire most of the years in the 1980s and early 1990s, plus a few years in the late 1990s and early 2000s. I attended a few all-nighters, and some dayers. I always visited John Anderson and John Manship on my annual UK visit.

I see that a few posters on this thread "gave me reputation". I hope it's not a virus! I hope it's a good reputation, and not a notorious one (as in "Look at the idiotic posts this tosser inflicts upon us!" But, seriously, folks,.... I'd like to find out what is the purpose of this forum "feature", and how it works. If it's something GOOD, like giving kudos for answering a question and providing good information, I don't understand why Roburt, who answered the question, and provided the theory with which I only agreed, didn't get the "reputation" instead of me, or, at least, along with me. Maybe I've got a 'reputation" for trying to steal glory from the rightful owners!

Van McCoy was known to have saved a lot of money and ensured the high quality of his recordings' background vocals by heavily overdubbing his own, Chris Bartley's and Kendra Spotswood's voices to produce a group sound on many of his recordings. So, given that The Vonettes were supposed to be a "studio group", it is not unlikely that once The Vonnettes' record started selling, and there was demand for appearances, that Van decided it would be better to actually have a group to appear, and found Brenda McGregor, a New York Metro Area singer, who may have been known by Kendra or another of Van's industry connections.

Actually, "Tony Orlando and Dawn" was chosen by Orlando's producer as his "artist name" before his song was released and became a hit. He needed a back-up "group". I think that Joyce Vincent was one of his back-up singers on the recording. But, his label had to sign her, and the other singer to a contract afterward, so he could have a "group" for his personal appearances.

It's a fairly fast R&B song, and does NOT have the shag/beach or Popcorn beat. So, I doubt that it was made for those markets. I also doubt that it was made for the general film-related "oldies" market, as those were all big hits. This record only did some scattered regional charting.

It doesn't look like a recent pressing. It looks more like a '70s pressing. But, maybe it WASN'T made for The NS scene, but, rather for US demand, during the 1970s?

I'm no expert on bootlegs or legitimate re-issues made for The NS, Popcorn or Beach Scenes. But, that looks like a legitimate re-issue made by H.B. Barnum (resurrecting his Little Star label to take advantage of European or US demand. I'd guess it was a late '70s or very early '80s pressing made because people from one of those scenes had contact with him, and told him of the demand. So, he pressed them up. Was that song played on The Northern scene? If so, when was it hot? Maybe that will lead you to your answer.

This sounds very reasonable and likely, as a duo is not really considered to be a "group". A minimum of 3 is required. The Raindrops, the "studio group" outlet for Jeff Barry's and Ellie Greenwich's songs (composed merely of Jeff and Ellie, themselves, needed to look and sound like a group when making personal appearances. So, they added Bobby Bosco. The same tactic could have been employed by Van McCoy with The Vonettes. These studio groups had gotten their full group sound by overdubbing in the studio. But in live performances, they needed an extra voice. So, they added in a group member. I seem to remember this situation occurring with several more studio groups, but can't remember off the top of my head, which they were.

I take it that you know That the Superlatives record and group on Uptite was from New Jersey, while the group on Dynamics and record was from Detroit. They were 2 unrelated groups.

Of Marc Gordon and Hal Davis' regular female background singers for their Los Angeles Jobete Music office, only The Holloway Sisters were signed to Motown Records as recording artists. Mary Love, Gloria Jones, Sandy Wynns (Edna Wright), and Pat Hunt were NOT signed and recorded (Mary and Gloria had to wait until when Motown moved to L.A.).

Yes. There was a paper-covered styrene pressing made at Monarch.

For Keith Hughes or any of The Motown Insiders: Has anyone ever seen a listing or heard anything about a Motown produced, Detroit-recorded version of "You Turned My Bitter Into Sweet" sung by a Motown-signed artist? During my Time perusing The Motown Vaults and Motown's paper documentation, I never came across any reference to such a recording. I really wonder why, as even "Do I Love You (Indeed I Do)", I'm So Thankful", "You Hit Me (Right Where It Hurts)", and "My Heart is Calling You". And those songs were not nearly as good as "Bitter Into Sweet" was. I can't imagine why some Detroit producer at Motown didn't want to use it on one of his artists or groups. With all the singles and all the album cuts that needed filling, and the 24 hours a day use of the recording studios, I can't understand why it wasn't recorded by at least one Motown-contracted act. Does anyone have any ideas?

Yes, The World of Music, and, specifically, Soul Music, is very fascinating. There are always surprises popping up as the years go by. They never cease to amaze me.

No WONDER I missed the good old days in Lebanon! I was there for only a couple days during the '60s, and not inclined to use my first days there for record scrounging, rather than seeing the sights, and after that, I was only there during the civil war (1970s and 1980s). Somehow, I never thought of looking for vinyl records in the suq. I DID by several swords and daggers, a galabia (jalaba) or 2, Kufia, and aghal or 3. I looked like Jordan's King Hussain when doffing my Arab attire (except that I, unlike The King, had a long beard. So, during my time in Jordan, I was thought to be an Imam by my Bedu neighbours (who used to drive their goats below my window at 5:00 AM every morning (just after The Muezzen blasted his message that "God is Great, and it is better to pray than to sleep!"

Ha! Ha! Genius! Absolute genius! This is one of the very best comic strips I have EVER seen - and that's saying a lot, - as I have vast experience in that area, as a cartoonist, myself, who creates comic books and comic strips professionally, and have been doing that for more than 30 years..

Yes, exactly. That interview was some years ago. It may well have been after the statute of limitations. I'm sure Dunbar made a promise to HDH on what he'd say if asked. So, I expect him to keep his word until HDH are deceased, or they admit, publicly, all the details.

I agree with Frank. The instrumental rambles all over the place, unlike most of the Detroit-produced Motown cuts that have solid structure. His vocal was uneven, too. I bought the record for the flip side, "Sweeter As The Days Go By", which sounds much more like a Gordon-Wilson song (like "I'm So Thankful"). To me, Frank Wilson's solo written songs all had no structure, and rambled all over the place. I think that he needed Marc Gordon to rein in his wildness, and provide structure to his songs. I absolutely HATED his solo songs on Power Records, "Bridge of Love", etc. But, after working in Detroit, he became a better writer, and wrote a few very good songs on his own. But, I really love some of the best Gordon-Wilson songs, like "You Turned My Bitter Into Sweet". I'm still waiting for a Motown artist version (recorded in Detroit by The Funk Brothers) to be found in The Vaults.

The actor's name is spelt: Joseph Cotten. So, no, I don't think it was he who recorded this. I doubt if he could have sung so soulful a rendition. I am actually a friend of the actor's son. And, I doubt that producer, Danny Thomas, was the actor-comedian star of "Make Room For Daddy, generous benefactor of Saint Jude's Hospital, and father of Marlo Thomas. That Pashlo record is interesting. What year was it released? Is it an l.A. production?

Dunbar HAD to use "selective memory", and refer to Edith Wayne as his partner, because of the potential legal ramifications to HDH. If he mentioned that HDH wrote the music for that song("Band of Gold"), or, that Eddie Holland co-wrote the lyrics (IF he, indeed did), he'd have been out of a job. So, there are no surprises there.

This is a joke, isn't it? Do they actually sell American Soul music there? I lived in Jordan for 6 years, and Arab countries for 15 years and all I remember is traditional Arab music being played on the radio. I know there were a few discos and Western nightclubs in Beirut, but would ABC really spend money to market their records in Lebanon for that tiny minority crowd???

I don't agree with the Soulful Detroit thread's conclusion that "Edith Wayne" represented only Eddie Holland. That would mean that only Eddie Holland wrote ALL the music on ALL those Invictus and Hot Wax hits, and Eddie co-wrote the words with Ron Dunbar. I rather believe that H-D-H wrote ALL the music, and Eddie Holland co-wrote most of the songs with Ron Dunbar (and Lamont and Brian Holland probably participated in some of the lyrics writing. Therefore, I believe that "Edith Wayne stood for Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier and Eddie Holland, and when Ron Dunbar was credited, he had participated in the lyrics writing. If HDH had participated in BOTH music and lyrics writing, they wouldn't have gotten their names twice in the credits. So, if their "pen name" (Edith Wayne) was in the credits, they surely wrote the music, and they may, or may not have participated in the lyrics writing. Based on what was stated in the Soulful Detroit thread, I would guess that the most common situation was only Eddie Holland co-writing with Ron Dunbar, but on some songs, the other two did, as well. Based on the wording and sound of the song, "Band of Gold", I believe that Eddie Holland participated in the lyrics writing with Ron Dunbar, either as a full co-writer, or only directing him from above (e.g. brainstorming with him, letting him run with it and come up with lyrics, then "editing" it - coming up with recommended changes and additions). I am sure that Ron Dunbar didn't attempt to aggrandise himself to give a false impression that he wrote "Band of Gold" without ANY "guidance". He just had to be careful; about how he worded his description of what happened, so that Universal or Berry Gordy wouldn't sue HDH again.

Yes, I DID direct it towards Golden 101. There was a defect in that post that made it appear that Stateside made that quote. But, if you look closely, I placed "27 minutes ago, The Golden 101 said:" above my response.

That seems to be the case. It seems that HDH always participated in the music writing in the Dunbar-Wayne songs, and the only questions are whether or not Dunbar participated in the music writing on some songs, and whether or not HDH participated in the songwriting in some or most of the songs (other than "Band of Gold".