dont know if this has been done before but,

was wondering the other day on one of my neverending journeys to a far off workplace

and happend to be listening to the radio when hittgv , marvin gaye was played and then had to change channels due to poor reception thru the scottish borders .got onto another channel and soon enough the supremes and wdolg came on followed soon after by jnr walker and rr , began to think that these iconic sounds and their like is what drew me into this scene, and were it not for berry gordy,s and tamla motowns efforts to get black american contemporary music at that time to be accepted by the mainstream ie, white listeners and to become commercially acceptable , would there have been a northern soul scene,

cheers b

We all agree that The Mods Of 64 started it all but surely Motown helped it on it's way.....Can anybody on here honestly say that they have never danced to a record on Motown??

Sorry to butt in boys ...............and may be shooting myself in the foot here ......but here goes

On a personal note I don`t know wether Motown influenced NS but for me it certainly helped me get into the scene

julie x

We all agree that The Mods Of 64 started it all but surely Motown helped it on it's way.....Can anybody on here honestly say that they have never danced to a record on Motown??

Yes, of course.

but the original question was hypothetical

"would there have been a UK soul scene without motown"

My opinion would be yes !

Edited July 18, 201014 yr by mossy

No,no,no, but your stutter wouldn't help....OPPINION!

fook off !

spelled hypothetical right tho

Edited July 18, 201014 yr by mossy

We all agree that The Mods Of 64 started it all but surely Motown helped it on it's way.....Can anybody on here honestly say that they have never danced to a record on Motown??

nobody is denying that Motown helped the scene along it's merry way, no one is disputing the fact that Motown has had an influence on us all but it would appear you don't understand the question, and you're the one who is a teacher and a graduate.

Which was would there have been a scene without Motown?

Which was would there have been a scene without Motown?

PROBABLY

Of course l understand the question,it's just that we have different interpretations of the answer...

Anyway me for one wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Motown...

But the question wasn't............"without motown would there be a Webby "

It was " without motown would there be a soul scene "

Edited July 18, 201014 yr by mossy

expressions - round and round in circels -

But the question wasn't............"without motown would there be a Webby "

It was " without motown would there be a soul scene "

expressions - round and round in circels -

The correct answer is -

We will never know !!!!!!

It would have been a completely different scene without the Motown soundtrack that everyone tried to emulate.

Regards

Brian

This for me the most important comment on here.

i.e. from someone who was there at the cutting edge in that important transition period of the late 60's.

At the same time there was a million little pre-teen Webbies (I know, I know) all having their brain cells programmed by the more mainstream Motown on the radio, at youth clubs etc. etc.

So as they came of age t was natual that it was the "Northern" scene that pulled them in - as opposed to Funk or Progressive or whatever.

Back to Brian's point - without Motown any rare soul scene would be completely different.

IMHO maybe virtually non-existent.

MB

Of course l understand the question,it's just that we have different interpretations of the answer...

Anyway me for one wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Motown...

fookin hell it's not whether you would have been here, it is whether there would have been a scene, and there would have been a scene in some form or other regardless whether you had been here or not!

Anyway, it's all because of Motown that we are lumbered with you

I still think there would have been some sort of Soul scene without Motown. But I guess we will never know how popular it would have been.

am going to write a letter of complaint to berry gordy because its down to him that we have to put up with webbydublin (phil) on here,

The Original question was would there have been a Northern Soul scene without motown.

The answer to that question is probably NO.

Now if you asked would there be a Rare Soul Scene without motown the answer would have been probably YES.

What i am trying to say is without the influence of motown,many if not most of us would have not been curious and wanted to hear all the more obscure soul records that we now class as northern soul.

If there was no motown i dont think the scene would have survived this long.

Stu.

The Original question was would there have been a Northern Soul scene without motown.

The answer to that question is probably NO.

Now if you asked would there be a Rare Soul Scene without motown the answer would have been probably YES.

What i am trying to say is without the influence of motown,many if not most of us would have not been curious and wanted to hear all the more obscure soul records that we now class as northern soul.

If there was no motown i dont think the scene would have survived this long.

Stu.

but there was a soul scene before a Northern Soul scene.

But was it that good?

it looked fantastic from some of the play lists I've seen. Anyway Brian Philips will be a better person to answer that question...I'm far too young of course

But was it that good?

But Phil.............................it was one and the same.................N/S is just a label,a description put on by Dave Godin.It diddn't suddenly morph into something different just because someone used "that phrase" to describe it.

But was it that good?

No mate....................a lot better.

my understanding is that most of the obscure stuff much saught after on todays northern scene came about due to the vast amount of artistes trying to secure deals with motown and literally cutting tracks to get the attention of Berry Gordy? The objective of Stax was to cater for alot of the artistes which were either mistreated by Motown or lost deals etc due to the predatory nature of Gordy, he would railroad talent and monopolise it thinking that he could do what he wanted and ofcourse alot of the time he did !! Look at the production team of stax etc and its a whos who of x motown -to me it all stems from Motown-and remember the BIGGER picture was all about signing for the Motown stable thus so many small studios been used for pennies etc-when the small indie labels became a threat as Dave mentioned Berry would buy them [in the good old fashoined AMERICAN way]-!!!

It was both motown and the sound of philly that got me into the scene because it made me search and dig a little deeper and brining a analogy that other labels etc would of provided the core of records for the scene is difficult to understand because -it mostly goes back to motown at some point or another through the vast amount of producers etc that came from or were associated with Motown and then worked for the other labels etc mentioned.

The term northern goes back to round about 73 Dave Godin etc bet your bottom dollar people that emerged from the wheel etc firstly got into the scene due to the influence of Motown etc -it was essentially dance music with a pure hookline which hooked you in -and thus appealing to many working class kids and other kids etc-Amazed no one has mentioned the Motown appreciation society and the work Davve Godin done he knew the explosion would happen one day hence all of his efforts to break alot of the artistes to white uk audiences -perhaps he thought it would happen pre Watford not further north either way -surely all the roots of the scene are from Motown??

BAZ A

Edited July 18, 201014 yr by baz atkinson

IF YOU CHECK OUT 'THE TWISTED WHEEL STORY' ALBUM/CD NOT A MOTOWN TRACK LISTED BUT NON THE LESS SOME GREAT SOUL MUSIC.

PETE

I know. I compiled it LOL.

Ian D

I come from Peterborough originally and one of the area´s most popular venues in the late 60 was the Boston Gliderdrome which hosted all the major black acts from Atlantic/Stax and of course the Motown Review in its day. I'll always remember my brother in law telling me about the night he saw Otis Redding (with me in awe) but didn't recall much of the evening 'cos he'd necked bombers for the first time. This brings me to the point that many out & out soul fans like him and my sister didn't get' the Northern Soul thing, even though some of their peers were starting to go to midlands/northern clubs like the Mojo and the Night Owl around 1967. To me it seems clear that one group of Soul fans valued obscurity and commercial failure and the other didn't, preferring to buy the records of established artists/labels. My sister loved practically everything that came out of Motown but if I play her The Tomangoes today she just shrugs and says yeah, but no, but yeah. I guess it must be familiarity or the lack of it. She recently attended a Soul & Motown night in Peterborough, billed as a reunion of sorts for people that had attended Peterborough's Cloud Nine club in the late 60s. She told me it was invaded by mainly blokes aged around 50 dancing very oddly to records she couldn't begin to 'relate to'. Fair enough. I always thought that people up north stuck with the Motown 'It's The Same Old Formula' beat because they couldn't stand Funk. In 1973 I'm Satisfied With You sounded far more appealing to my young ears than 'Me & Baby Brother' and all that bumping nonsense. So yes, Motown for me is a cornerstone of the early 'nothern sound' which later evolved into a far more eclectic animal with the incorporation of 70s material. Sorry for rambling...

I'm still alive........

I started clubbing it in late 1966 by then Motown and Atlantic was the predominant soundtrack in most Manchester clubs including The Wheel early sessions.

When I first went to the Wheel allniter the big Motown tracks were First I look at the purse,A little misunderstanding,Can You jerk like me,Whole lotta shaking going on in my heart,Just walk in my shoes,Needle inb an haystack,Really saying something, The things will keep me loving you,Sweet thing, I'll always love you,All for you,Love is like a itching in my heart, shoot your shot, I can't help myself , Headline news, I have faith in you,etc. etc.

Prior to that all the Motown stuff would have been played as new releases and eventually phased out due to overplay and the fact that all the other clubs were playing it to death also The Wheel DJs and members were discovering more obscure soul tracks.

By the time I started to DJ there in 1969 I only remember playing 6 X 6, Love is like a itching in my heart,I have faith in you, These Things will keep me loving you,Sweet thing,Keep on loving me,I can't help myself Instruemental,Just walk in my shoes,take, this heart of mine,Its so hard being a loser and the other Contours tunes although they got re- released just after and went mainstream.But by then Motown had taken over Ric Tic and I was playing all that stuff as was The Catacombs. However Paul Davis who did the first part of the niter use to play a few Motown new releases and his theme tune All for you.

It would have been a completly different scene without the Motown soundtrack that everyone tried to emulate.

Regards

Brian

Yay Brian. That's good enough for me mate and pretty much exactly as I thought!

So I guess we're saying that there would have been a smaller 'Soul' scene but not necessarily the huge 'Northern Soul' scene which sprung up in the 70's then? That kinda sounds fair enough to me as I'm pretty sure I'd have been on it whether or not Motown existed. Motown just made what had been a small scene much more popular by ushering in a production line of uptempo belters which had as much influence in the industrial North of England as it had in Industrial Detroit.

In fact, it's funny that this subject came up 'cos I just got my hands on the 2 volumes of 'The Sue Story" which reflected the tastes of Guy Stephens, the original DJ at the Scene in London and which had a lot in common wth the original Wheel and without a shadow of a doubt that particular style of music simply wouldn't have appealed to me as much as Northern Soul. Too much Blues, 60's R'n'B and even Rock N' Roll for my tastes. Also, wasn't the reason that Roger Eagle left the Wheel because he actually saw the scene heading towards Northern Soul and he preferred a wider range of music as per what he usually played up to the later part of the 60's?

So that's got me thinking whether age has a bearing on all this. We're all products of the eras that we're born in and I'm pretty convinced that the most musically influential time in someone's life is generally when they're adolescent and discovering the type of music they like for the first time. As part of the 'baby boom' generation (born in '55), there was a massive population burst of young folk who would all have started hearing Motown on the family radio from around '64-'68 and would have heard The Supremes, The Temptations, The Four Tops, Mary Wells, Martha & The Vandellas, Stevie Wonder as they were growing up and thus been 'programmed' with the Motown template. So by the time they started going out to Youth Clubs, School Discos, Fun Fairs and eventually Clubs in the late 60's/early 70's they were looking to hear more of that kind of stuff, especially if they were cool and hip like me.

So what I think happened is that the success of the 60's Motown sound undoubtably helped fuel the explosion of Northern Soul in the late 60's and early 70's. By the time the Northern scene was at it's height in the UK, Motown had moved to Los Angeles, changed it's whole sound and stopped making Northern Soul. Good job they'd left us so much stuff from the 60's! Frank Wilson wasn't discovered until 1976 but we won't go down that route..........

Ian D

Edited July 18, 201014 yr by Ian Dewhirst

Yay Brian. That's good enough for me mate and pretty much exactly as I thought!

So I guess we're saying that there would have been a smaller 'Soul' scene but not necessarily the huge 'Northern Soul' scene which sprung up in the 70's then? That kinda sounds fair enough to me as I'm pretty sure I'd have been on it whether or not Motown existed. Motown just made what had been a small scene much more popular by ushering in a production line of uptempo belters which had as much influence in the industrial North of England as it had in Industrial Detroit.

In fact, it's funny that this subject came up 'cos I just got my hands on the 2 volumes of 'The Sue Story" which reflected the tastes of Guy Stephens, the original DJ at the Scene in London and which had a lot in common wth the original Wheel and without a shadow of a doubt that particular style of music simply wouldn't have appealed to me as much as Northern Soul. Too much Blues, 60's R'n'B and even Rock N' Roll for my tastes. Also, wasn't the reason that Roger Eagle left the Wheel because he actually saw the scene heading towards Northern Soul and he preferred a wider range of music as per what he usually played up to the later part of the 60's?

So that's got me thinking whether age has a bearing on all this. We're all products of the eras that we're born in and I'm pretty convinced that the most musically influential time in someone's life is generally when they're adolescent and discovering the type of music they like for the first time. As part of the 'baby boom' generation (born in '55), there was a massive population burst of young folk who would all have started hearing Motown on the family radio from around '64-'68 and would have heard The Supremes, The Temptations, The Four Tops, Mary Wells, Martha & The Vandellas, Stevie Wonder as they were growing up and thus been 'programmed' with the Motown template. So by the time they started going out to Youth Clubs, School Discos, Fun Fairs and eventually Clubs in the late 60's/early 70's they were looking to hear more of that kind of stuff, especially if they were cool and hip like me.

So what I think happened is that the success of the 60's Motown sound undoubtably helped fuel the explosion of Northern Soul in the late 60's and early 70's. By the time the Northern scene was at it's height in the UK, Motown had moved to Los Angeles, changed it's whole sound and stopped making Northern Soul. Good job they'd left us so much stuff from the 60's! Frank Wilson wasn't discovered until 1976 but we won't go down that route..........

Ian D

think the latter part highlighted is spot on and couldnt agree more, we are children of our time , motown probably influenced us and led most of us into NS and we are still here.

think there would have been a soul scene without motown but very much different and smaller and possibly over with by now as a mass movement,

But was it that good?

Take a look at post number 58....................YES IT WAS!!!

This for me the most important comment on here.

i.e. from someone who was there at the cutting edge in that important transition period of the late 60's.

At the same time there was a million little pre-teen Webbies (I know, I know) all having their brain cells programmed by the more mainstream Motown on the radio, at youth clubs etc. etc.

So as they came of age t was natual that it was the "Northern" scene that pulled them in - as opposed to Funk or Progressive or whatever.

Back to Brian's point - without Motown any rare soul scene would be completely different.

IMHO maybe virtually non-existent.

MB

Yes , popular 60s Black American music could have gone off in many different directions without motowns general influence on the usa independent music scene at the time.

And I am certain that Motown must have got thousands of british people into Soul music in the 60s and 70s.

But to answer the original question

Yes, there would still have been a vintage record collecting / club scene in the uk without motown.

In the same way there was a big 60s dance scene in Belgium in the 70s (popcorn)

We may not have been dominated by the same rhythm section,

But I am sure we would have still been polishing our Lambrettas and buying quality old tunes !

Gret post but how become FW never got played til 78?

Because it was still in the Motown Museum archives before that time.

Soussan talked his way into the establishment .... abused the trust they had placed into him.......... then nicked the rare 45..........

I thought everyone knew that !

I come from Peterborough originally and one of the area´s most popular venues in the late 60 was the Boston Gliderdrome which hosted all the major black acts from Atlantic/Stax and of course the Motown Review in its day. I'll always remember my brother in law telling me about the night he saw Otis Redding (with me in awe) but didn't recall much of the evening 'cos he'd necked bombers for the first time. This brings me to the point that many out & out soul fans like him and my sister didn't get' the Northern Soul thing, even though some of their peers were starting to go to midlands/northern clubs like the Mojo and the Night Owl around 1967. To me it seems clear that one group of Soul fans valued obscurity and commercial failure and the other didn't, preferring to buy the records of established artists/labels. My sister loved practically everything that came out of Motown but if I play her The Tomangoes today she just shrugs and says yeah, but no, but yeah. I guess it must be familiarity or the lack of it. She recently attended a Soul & Motown night in Peterborough, billed as a reunion of sorts for people that had attended Peterborough's Cloud Nine club in the late 60s. She told me it was invaded by mainly blokes aged around 50 dancing very oddly to records she couldn't begin to 'relate to'. Fair enough. I always thought that people up north stuck with the Motown 'It's The Same Old Formula' beat because they couldn't stand Funk. In 1973 I'm Satisfied With You sounded far more appealing to my young ears than 'Me & Baby Brother' and all that bumping nonsense. So yes, Motown for me is a cornerstone of the early 'nothern sound' which later evolved into a far more eclectic animal with the incorporation of 70s material. Sorry for rambling...

Used to work with a bloke that was a regular at the Gliderdome and he always remembers the night I think it was 67 when the Small Faces appeared......they got booed off because the crowd didn't want to hear pop rubbish. Geno Washington was the next act on. They all invaded the stage and were carrying him around on their shoulders.He said most London pop or hippy groups got short thrift.He was a hard Mod/peenut who wore shermans,brogues and blazers.He said after a hard week at work the last thing they could connect with were peace and love merchants or long haired pop groups. They wanted to dance all weekend and the best music was soul.I'm sure I have read an interview with Roger Eagle who said he played a mixture of soul music and r&b at the Twisted Wheel and he left because the pill poppers were demanding the uptempo stuff and he felt it was limiting him. Im sure that when the Tamla tour came over they were playing to empty theatres so Tamla in the early days must have been cult music..

Edited July 18, 201014 yr by wiggyflat

Used to work with a bloke that was a regular at the Gliderdome and he always remembers the night I think it was 67 when the Small Faces appeared......they got booed off because the crowd didn't want to hear pop rubbish. Geno Washington was the next act on. They all invaded the stage and were carrying him around on their shoulders.He said most London pop or hippy groups got short thrift.He was a hard Mod/peenut who wore shermans,brogues and blazers.He said after a hard week at work the last thing they could connect with were peace and love merchants or long haired pop groups. They wanted to dance all weekend and the best music was soul.I'm sure I have read an interview with Roger Eagle who said he played a mixture of soul music and r&b at the Twisted Wheel and he left because the pill poppers were demanding the uptempo stuff and he felt it was limiting him. Im sure that when the Tamla tour came over they were playing to empty theatres so Tamla in the early days must have been cult music..

The first time berry gordy came over here in 1964 they (the artists) called it the ghost tour !

due to the fact that they went around this country playing to mostly empty houses - the further north at that time - the emptier the venue.

They were just about to go home and they got a break on UK TV

it was Dusty Springfields influence at ITV reddifusion that got Motown on UK television with the "ready steady motown special"

So give great thanks to Dusty for helping Motown get popular over here in the 60s

And of course the 60s Mods

And I believe Dave Godin persuaded Berry Gordy to embark on this crazy UK tour in the first place.

Edited July 18, 201014 yr by mossy

Because it was still in the Motown Museum archives before that time.

Soussan talked his way into the establishment .... abused the trust they had placed into him.......... then nicked the rare 45..........

I thought everyone knew that !

There was no museum at that time... It was just the Motown archive.

There was no museum at that time... It was just the Motown archive.

I stand corrected !

The fact remains !

The Motown sound evolved from what was going on musiclly at that time from the doo wop and RnB influences , if it wasnt Berry Gordy someone else would have developed a similar sound .

Whitfield ,Strong ,Holland and Dozier Robinson etc would still have been born and would have still been creative and the northern scene would still have happend and we wouldnt have been subjected to years of DILYIDID,

To me, i think Northern soul could have been as big as it is even if Motown wasn't here. before Motown we had doo wop and soul came along with like Jackie Wilson, Sam Cooke and i doubt they would have all thought in there later careers Motown has paved way for some of there success. plus a lot of Motown tracks was commercial in the 60's and 70's which some of them are far fetched from Northern soul, some got played on the scene but now they are payed for the soul nights aimed for casual people who like only commercial soul. Motown tracks now is more obscure

clubs was playing Northern soul before they played a lot of Motown, there is a lot of labels who have done well and could all be played on the scene without Motown, labels like RCA, Brunswick, Stateside, Okeh, Scepter, Chess, Stax, Atalantic, Minit etc. same as when Modern sounds come on the scene, there is no doubt they don't have as much or little Motown played.

so to me, Motown has played a part but without we wouldn't be to worried as hundreds to thousands of tracks would be played,

Agreed !!!!

Northern Souls beginings were the early 60s Mod clubs - I appreciate motown records were played at these clubs, but at the time 64 motown (stateside) would have just been another RnB label ?

Just to remind everyone of Randy Cozens Mod top 100 - and he should have know as he was there in the beginings of this scene !!!!!

The variety of 60s Soul at the original Mod clubs is obviously all here to see !

The rare soul scene would have evolved somehow without motown IMO

Its really not worth giving that much thought to IMO - because Motown did go on to be the biggest black label by 1966 and we can't change history !!

1. What'cha Gonna Do About It – Doris Troy (Atlantic)

2. So Far Away – Hank Jacobs (Sue)

3. Come See About Me – Nella Dodds (Pye Int)

4. Hole In The Wall – George Stone (Stateside)

5. Que Sera Sera- The High Keys (London)

6. Getting Mighty Crowded – Betty Everett (Fontana)

7. I Don't Wanna Fuss – Sugar Pie Desanto (Pye Int)

8. Walking The Dog – Rufus Thomas (London)

9. Hold What You Got – Joe Tex (Atlantic)

10. Time Is On My Side – Irma Thomas (Liberty)

11. I Can't Believe What You Say – Ike And Tina Turner (Sue)

12. The Drifter – Ray Pollard (UA)

13. Any Day Now – Chuck Jackson (Stateside)

14. The Monkey Time – Major Lance (Columbia)

15. La De Da, I Love You – Inez And Charlie Foxx (Sue)

16. The Cheater – Bob Kuban And The In Men (Stateside)

17. I'm In Your Hands – Mary Love (King)

18. The Jerk – The Larks (Pye Int)

19. I Had A Talk With My Man – Mitty Collier (Pye Int)

20. Oh No Not My Baby – Maxine Brown ((Pye Int)

21. Gotta Have Your Love – The Sapphires (HMV)

22. Everybody Needs Somebody To Love – Solomon Burke (Atlantic)

23. La La La La La – The Blendells (Reprise)

24. Ride Your Pony – Lee Dorsey (Stateside)

25. Selfish One – Jackie Ross (Pye Int)

26. Tired Of Being Lonely – The Sharpees (Stateside)

27. El Watusi – Ray Barretto (Colombia)

28. Treat Her Right – Roy Head (Vocallion)

29. Who's Cheating Who? – Little Milton (Chess)

30. Out Of Sight – James Brown (Phillips)

31. Mercy Mercy – Don Covay (Atlantic)

32. Open The Door To Your Heart – Darrell Banks (Stateside)

33. A Little Piece Of Leather – Donnie Elbert (Sue)

34. Go Now – Bessie Banks (Red Bird)

35. Searching For My Love – Bobby Moore (Chess)

36. You Can't Sit Down – Phil Upchurch Combo (HMV)

37. The Duck – Jackie Lee (Fontana)

38. Doctor Love – Bobby Sheen (Capitol)

39. She Blew A Good Thing – The American Poets (London)

40. Watch Your Step – Bobby Parker (Sue)

41. Love Ain't Nothin' – Johnny Nash (Pye Int)

42. Randy – Earl Jean (Colpix)

43. Rancid Polecat – Ian And The Clarks (Liberty)

44. Oowee Baby I Love You – Fred Hughes (Fontana)

45. A Touch Of Venus – Sandy Wynns (Fontana)

46. Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood – Nina Simone (Phillips)

47. Ain't Love Good, Ain't Love Proud – Tony Clark (Pye Int)

48. I've Got A Woman – Jimmy McGriff (Sue)

49. Candy – The Astors (Atlantic)

50. Smokie Joe's La La – Googie Rene Combo (Atlantic)

51. Mr Bang Bang Man – Little Hank (London)

52. It's Rough Out There – Jerry Jackson (Cameo)

53. Oh How Happy – Shades Of Blue (Sue)

54. Ain't Nobody Home – Howard Tate (Verve)

55. Dimples – John Lee Hooker (Stateside)

56. Long After Tonight Is Over – Jimmy Radcliffe (Stateside)

57. Twine Time – Alvin Cash (Stateside)

58. Lipstick Traces – The O'Jays (Liberty)

59. Let The Good Times Roll – Bunny Sigler (Cameo Parkway)

60. There's Nothing Else To Say Baby – The Incredibles (Stateside)

61. Peaches And Cream – The Ikettes (Stateside)

62. What's Wrong With Me Baby – The Invitations (Stateside)

63. Hole In The Wall – The Packers (Pye Int)

64. Finders Keepers – Gloria Jones (Stateside)

65. Nothing Can Stop Me – Gene Chandler (Stateside)

66. See You At The Go Go – Dobie Gray (Pye Int)

67. Love Makes The World Go Round – Deon Jackson (Atlantic)

68. Cool Jerk – The Capitols (Atlantic)

69. The In Crowd – Ramsey Lewis Trio (Chess)

70. Rescue Me – Fontella Bass (Chess)

71. 60 Minutes Of Your Love – Homer Banks (Liberty)

72. Sweetest Thing This Side Of Heaven – Chris Bartley (Cameo)

73. A L'il Loving Sometimes – Alexander Patton (Capitol)

74. You've Got To Pay The Price – Al Kent (Track)

75. Make Me Yours – Bettye Swann (CBS)

76. The Pain Gets A Little Deeper – Darrow Fletcher (London)

77. Talk Of The Grapevine – Donald Height (London)

78. Always Something There To Remind Me – Lou Johnson (London)

79. Steal Away – Jimmy Hughes (Pye Int)

80. Yes I'm Ready – Barbara Mason (London)

81. Gee Whiz – Carla Thomas (Atlantic)

82. My Girl Sloopy – The Vibrations (London)

83. Gypsy Woman – The Impressions (HMV)

84. You Don't Know Like I Know – Sam And Dave (Atlantic)

85. I'll Take Good Care Of You – Garnett Mimms (UA)

86. Nothing Takes The Place Of You – Toussaint McCall (Pye Int)

87. The 81 – Candy And The Kisses (Cameo)

88. Mr Pitiful – Otis Redding (Atlantic)

89. This Can't Be True – Eddie Holman (Cameo)

90. You Got Too Much Going For You – Jimmy Beaumont (London)

91. Help Me – The Spellbinders (CBS)

92. Higher And Higher – Jackie Wilson (Coral)

93. That's Enough – Rosco Robinson (Pye Int)

94. I Wanna Be – The Manhattans (Sue)

95. Spring – Birdlegs And Pauline (Sue)

96. Peace Of Mind – The Magnificent Men (Capitol)

97. Hey-Sah-Lo-Nay – Mickey Lee Lane (Stateside)

98. Mercy – Willie Mitchell (London)

99. Gypsy Woman – Derek And Patsy (Island)

100. Dr Kitch – Lord Kitchener (Jump Up)

43. Rancid Polecat – Ian And The Clarks ( Liberty )

Still makes me smile after all these years

Malc

Edited July 19, 201014 yr by Malc Burton

To me, i think Northern soul could have been as big as it is even if Motown wasn't here. before Motown we had doo wop and soul came along with like Jackie Wilson, Sam Cooke and i doubt they would have all thought in there later careers Motown has paved way for some of there success. plus a lot of Motown tracks was commercial in the 60's and 70's which some of them are far fetched from Northern soul, some got played on the scene but now they are payed for the soul nights aimed for casual people who like only commercial soul. Motown tracks now is more obscure

clubs was playing Northern soul before they played a lot of Motown, there is a lot of labels who have done well and could all be played on the scene without Motown, labels like RCA, Brunswick, Stateside, Okeh, Scepter, Chess, Stax, Atalantic, Minit etc. same as when Modern sounds come on the scene, there is no doubt they don't have as much or little Motown played.

so to me, Motown has played a part but without we wouldn't be to worried as hundreds to thousands of tracks would be played,

I find it strange that the north wouldnt let go of the sixties influences full stop.As the south got into more funky sounds and progressed why did the northerners stick to the motown template and not move along with the funk.They even rode scooters all the way through the seventies and formed scooter clubs.They did move with the fashions though and abandoned the suits/mod gear lthough it was a very street look.It wasn't even a revival...how can it be if you never stopped.It was the same with the music...they wanted new or unknown sixties tamla based uptempo music.I believe RIC Tic and Okeh were the first US labels out of Motown Stax etc to be discovered and they were worshipped with people having tattoos done,/badges etc.Motown must have been old hat in 71/72.Anybody know when the Ric Tics were imported in bulk and why there are so many about.

Edited July 19, 201014 yr by wiggyflat

Well the real question is would all those Motownesque soundlikes been produced had there not been any Motown. The answer is yes, may have sounded somewhat different, a lot of soul music isn't/wasn't Motown.