I think I may have an idea, cause I have been after it for 20 years and I am still looking for it.

I have had one copy in my hands from martin copell via john evans that went to my pal (20 years ago )

Its rarity has gone completely overlooked IMO

Its a total screaming Soul Boogaloo tune !

I have never seen it for sale on a uk list !

what is it ?

quiz?

Edited July 21, 201114 yr by dancecrasher

if it's not Bobby Valentin then i'm stumped

I don't know but I'm willing to hear it

Go on tell us, and I may be able to tell you if there is a reason for its rarity, or even better, you can tell me the number and it may be one of the missing ones in the discography.

i suppose completely overlooked would scratch my guess, i'm also "willing to hear it" lol

Go on tell us, and I may be able to tell you if there is a reason for its rarity, or even better, you can tell me the number and it may be one of the missing ones in the discography.

Ok, I may be way off the mark here, but I have found this 45 to be a total impossible record on gold fania.

I think its rarity has sort of gone under the radar.

I'm sure it has been discussed on here before. Definitely very hard - rarely turns up, and a great great record.

Not sure that it's the rarest - may be the hardest to get that anyone on here would want though!

"Teacher of love" b/w "A deeper shade of soul" by Ray Barretto? well, don't want to hijack this thread but it isn't by far one of the hardest Fania gold 45s. Just one ended last monday on Ebay for a mere 61$:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160618571665&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

On-line shops like Dusty Groove USA had copies of it some years ago for 5$ that's where mine came from. Definitely an elusive record but not the rarest on the label and it's fairly spun and very well know in Mod allnighters all around the world so not overlooked either. Top record all the same!

Damian Lapeyre from France also had one up for sale on his latest list. I think he's on Soul source so maybe worth a try. 80 euros asked for it.

I'm sure it has been discussed on here before. Definitely very hard - rarely turns up, and a great great record.

Not sure that it's the rarest - may be the hardest to get that anyone on here would want though!

I personally think its much rarer than bobby valentin.

I don't know if it has ever had plays on the northern scene.

I have never seen it on playlists, Its got the potential to be a popular boogaloo 45 IMO

Every bit as good a "use it" and "chance for romance" "never learned to dance"

I know it gets plays on the Mod scene but I think its gone under the radar on the soul scene.

Or am I way off the mark ?

Edited July 21, 201114 yr by dancecrasher

"Teacher of love" b/w "A deeper shade of soul" by Ray Barretto? well, don't want to hijack this thread but it isn't by far one of the hardest Fania gold 45s. Just one ended last monday on Ebay for a mere 61$:

https://cgi.ebay.com/...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

On-line shops like Dusty Groove USA had copies of it some years ago for 5$ that's where mine came from. Definitely an elusive record but not the rarest on the label and it's fairly spun and very well know in Mod allnighters all around the world so not overlooked either. Top record all the same!

yeah i have to say i was shocked when this 45 was 'revealed', also bought this and many other fania 45's from dusty groove in the late 90's/early 2000's so never thought of it as being 'rare', they never had bobby valentin tho!

yeah i have to say i was shocked when this 45 was 'revealed', also bought this and many other fania 45's from dusty groove in the late 90's/early 2000's so never thought of it as being 'rare', they never had bobby valentin tho!

I missed them buggers then !!! I wonder how many copys they had ?

I got a the Manny Corchado LP of Dusty Groove a couple of years ago. Was pleased with that !

Perhaps its just my personal experience, I have no problem with Bobby Valentin (geronimo and use it)

I have just not seen the the Ray 45

Edited July 21, 201114 yr by dancecrasher

I missed them buggers then !!! I wonder how many copys they had ?

I got a the Manny Corchado LP of Dusty Groove a couple of years ago. Was pleased with that !

Perhaps its just my personal experience, I have no problem with Bobby Valentin (geronimo and use it)

I have just not seen the the Ray 45

so many 45's get 'slept on', but the minute you try and find one it suddenly becomes elusive!

Dusty Groove was great 10 years ago. Had great stocks of Fanias, Prestiges etc... I think they sold about 15/20 more or less of "Teacher of love". They also stocked Monguito Santamaria "Hey sister!" and some Joe Bataans but as Wrighty says, sadly no Bobby Valentines. The problem with these records comes due to demand on the Northern Soul scene. If one of these 45s rockets on the Northern scene then forget about getting a copy (i.e. "Use it before you lose it... "Bad beath" and "Geronimo" are as rare if not more than "Use it..." but they have not crossover to the Nortern scene so price is still fairly right).

I have a white promo of this in near mint cond I play it out quite a lot brilliant double sider

What is the going rate for 'Bad Breath' these days ?

What is the going rate for 'Bad Breath' these days ?

150$ in excess.

I know its not expensive, but how hard is the Ronnie Marks in terms of turning up alongside other Fania stuff? Don't collect it so no idea?

I know its not expensive, but how hard is the Ronnie Marks in terms of turning up alongside other Fania stuff? Don't collect it so no idea?

Not that hard I don't think.

"Teacher of love" b/w "A deeper shade of soul" by Ray Barretto? well, don't want to hijack this thread but it isn't by far one of the hardest Fania gold 45s. Just one ended last monday on Ebay for a mere 61$:

That's where I got the scan from, But I still think its rarity is overlooked my many.

There is only one copy showing on popsike.

I think a lot of collectors who have the acid lp are happy with it on that format.

Another 45 that has great potential on the soul scene perhaps ?

The fania discography is so large that there are tons of holes in the discography where collectors haven't even been able to fill in the unknown numbers (even in the early gold range). I imagine one of those titles that is unknown is the "rarest". I don't know if they are any good though.

I think you'll fine ten of those for any one copy of Joe Bataan "Too Much Lovin" or Bobby Quesada "Bataola Boogaloo" that turns up...

I'm pretty sure I've seen copies of both of those recently.

I think the truth is that most Fania 45s were pressed for Juke Boxes and radio - the latin market was much more an album thing - and that apart from something like 'Soul Drummers' most were pressed in pretty similar numbers. So none are actually that much rarer than the others. Some have just been searched out more

Of the early stuff there are something like 15 unknown titles in the first 100 or so releases, but as the paperwork for the 45s doesn't exist for most of this time, it is quite possible that the numbering sequence was eratic and numbers were missed. Certainly the number of albums that Fania released in the first couple of years - through to 67 was tiny, and probably wouldn't justify the number of releases that are missing.

Later on the missing numbers may again relate to lax cataloguing, and in any case if they do exist are likely to be tracks lifted from albums.

Paradoxically the easiest of the expensive Fania's is probably Harvey Averne's 'Never Learned To Dance' on their Uptite subsidiary, as Harvey sold a 100 or so about ten years back.

Just in case anyone has them, the missing numbers in the early Fania discog are

424, 425, 429, 431, 434, 435, 437, 438, 439, 441, 442, 450, 489, 493, 498, 541, 554

Just in case anyone has them, the missing numbers in the early Fania discog are

424, 425, 429, 431, 434, 435, 437, 438, 439, 441, 442, 450, 489, 493, 498, 541, 554

I've got this one:

Fania 431 - Johnny Pacheco - El Champolon / La Rebelion De Mayo

Paradoxically the easiest of the expensive Fania's is probably Harvey Averne's 'Never Learned To Dance' on their Uptite subsidiary, as Harvey sold a 100 or so about ten years back.

In regards to the Uptite label, how rare is the release of Joe Bataans 'Magic Rose' on this label credited to Naatab?

In regards to the Uptite label, how rare is the release of Joe Bataans 'Magic Rose' on this label credited to Naatab?

I don't think it's that rare, but I can't find my copy, to see if the A-side is on both sides of the promo, which would mean that the issue with 'Magic Rose' - it was the B-side probably would be hard to find.

Bataan has a couple of the toughest to find on Fania though. His version of 'Symphony Sid' is tough on gold, and his final single for the label 'latin soul square dance' was never released. I've also never seen many copies of the 1975 release of 'I'm No Stranger' 45 which was released on the back of the success of his Salsoul releases.

I've got this one: Fania 431 - Johnny Pacheco - El Champolon / La Rebelion De Mayo

Thanks.

I think you'll fine ten of those for any one copy of Joe Bataan "Too Much Lovin" or Bobby Quesada "Bataola Boogaloo" that turns up...

Again, probably just personal experience, but have had no prob getting "too much lovin" - got an issue and a demo

I don't have the Bobby Quesada.

Its just had not seen that bloody "Teacher of love" anywhere for years.

And up until I posted this thread up, Apart from a mate who has it on 45, I had not read heard much about it.

I wondered if it had plays on the Soul Scene as in my opinion it is one of the best Funky Soulful Boogaloo 45s on the label.

I wish I had a PC back in the late 90s when Dusty Grooves had that Fania stuff !!!

I am still convinced it is a very rare record on 45 and it has huge potential on the Soul scene cause it is so darn good. (in my opinion of course)

Guys ......Many thanks for the input as always.

Nb. Just in case anyone dosent know it

I just noticed the comments on this u tube clip - I'm not the only one who has found this one hard !

Edited July 22, 201114 yr by dancecrasher

Just in case anyone has them, the missing numbers in the early Fania discog are

424, 425, 429, 431, 434, 435, 437, 438, 439, 441, 442, 450, 489, 493, 498, 541, 554

Fania 437 - Pacheco Y Su Charanga - Dos Gardenias / Bilongo

Just in case anyone has them, the missing numbers in the early Fania discog are

424, 425, 429, 431, 434, 435, 437, 438, 439, 441, 442, 450, 489, 493, 498, 541, 554

Fania 438 - Orchestra Harlow - Winchester Cathedral / Almas Olvidadas

I'm pretty sure I've seen copies of both of those recently.

I think the truth is that most Fania 45s were pressed for Juke Boxes and radio - the latin market was much more an album thing - and that apart from something like 'Soul Drummers' most were pressed in pretty similar numbers. So none are actually that much rarer than the others. Some have just been searched out more

Of the early stuff there are something like 15 unknown titles in the first 100 or so releases, but as the paperwork for the 45s doesn't exist for most of this time, it is quite possible that the numbering sequence was eratic and numbers were missed. Certainly the number of albums that Fania released in the first couple of years - through to 67 was tiny, and probably wouldn't justify the number of releases that are missing.

Later on the missing numbers may again relate to lax cataloguing, and in any case if they do exist are likely to be tracks lifted from albums.

Paradoxically the easiest of the expensive Fania's is probably Harvey Averne's 'Never Learned To Dance' on their Uptite subsidiary, as Harvey sold a 100 or so about ten years back.

Dean I have a radio show on tape that I have just transferred to MP3 and I'm sure youre playing this 45...about 88/89.You also mention and play that Johnny Harris record.Ive already uploaded some Peterson Mad On Jazz stuff...

your tape is next.

Just in case anyone has them, the missing numbers in the early Fania discog are

424, 425, 429, 431, 434, 435, 437, 438, 439, 441, 442, 450, 489, 493, 498, 541, 554

435 is Bobby Valentin - Geronimo / Que Pollito

439 is Babby Quesada - Mas Feo Que Yo / El Guiro Sabrosso (and it is babby on the 45 - not bobby)

Edited July 22, 201114 yr by dancecrasher

435 is Bobby Valentin - Geronimo

The 45 has as artist name the singer in Bobby Valentin's band, Marcelino "Junior" Morales, on both sides (other side is "Que Pollito"):

https://cgi.ebay.com/...5#ht_2196wt_846

Dean I have a radio show on tape that I have just transferred to MP3 and I'm sure youre playing this 45...about 88/89.You also mention and play that Johnny Harris record.Ive already uploaded some Peterson Mad On Jazz stuff...

your tape is next.

Was definitely on the Johnny Harris, not sure about the Averne. If you get that MP3 could you send me it please. I'd forgotten about those radio shows!

Thanks for those extra numbers.

That just leaves these

424, 425, 429, 434, 441, 442, 450, 489, 493, 498, 541, 554

And if anyone wants the discography, drop me a PM and I'll email it to you.

The 45 has as artist name the singer in Bobby Valentin's band, Marcelino "Junior" Morales, on both sides (other side is "Que Pollito"):

https://cgi.ebay.com/...5#ht_2196wt_846

It sure does, but it has bobby valentin in brackets under the title first and the 45 was lifted from Bobby Valentin - young man with a horn LP

so I have always refered / thought to it as a Bobby Valentin 45 rarther than a Junior Morales 45

but I see what you mean.

wfmu features "Teacher of love" for thoses who are interested this week.(send my cheque on Finewine"!! lol).

Does anyone know 

fania 429, 442, 757, 820 , 832 , 929, 931 , 963 ,

967, 969, 976, 977, 978, 981, 986, 989

990, 992, 994, 999, 1008 1009, 10010, 1011 ? Those are the only ones I haven't been able to figure out. 

 

Edited November 13, 20204 yr by Morgan Nixon