Pop Masquerading As Soul

[Guest Billy Freemantle]

I still believe that Moses Smith is not an out and out pop record at all. It is certainly poppy as was a lot of the product from the northern studios. But it's no more a pop record than most of Motown. The timbre of Moses voice is certainly soulful, too. Whether this is a product of his being black I've got no idea and I can't see how that matters at all. It's interesting that no other records by black artists - other than the big beat ballad singers who were consciously aiming to cross over - have been posited as examples of pop masquerading as soul. Is that because there is something inherently soulful in performances by black artists? That is probably true; and if we listen to very early 'race' recordings we can see that alongside the deep blues were novelty recordings that without pulling at our heart strings had us tapping our feet.

[Winnie :-)]

Are they all as gramatically/soulfully aware as you in Blackpool then?

French x

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That's sooooo Lancastrianist

Winnie:-)

[Winnie :-)]

Will henceforth write dos with impunity, and quote your post as my point of reference if questioned

As a reward you can borrow my talc next time I see you, and if the floor is a little fast, I'll even let you dip your feet in my red-bull

Winnie:-)

Steady on Win! Be it Win's red bull/Frenchi's J.D, (indicating ownership/posession of alcaholic drinks)...anythin but water would be an utter waste of drink imho!

French x

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Only use the red bull in extreme cases. It's the holy grail of floor slower downers

Winnie:-)

[Soulsmith]

Pop masquerading as soul

How about everything ever recorded by Brenton Wood?

Col

- But i do love that "Two Time Loser"

[macca]

an interesting debate. I never considered moses smith to be a closet pop record. that intro always used to warm the old cockles. you could be hearing some really cutting edge new stuff from richard searling or soul sam, circa 76/77 & when someone rolled out an old war horse like paul anka, johnny caswell, earl grant, salvadors etc, I used to find it enormously uplifting. however, sometime in 1978, I began to loath nearly everything I heard, I mean records like kiki dee, barry benson, helen shapiro, ben zine, lou roberts, cobblestone, 7 dwarfs, teddy vann, ral donner, peggy march, paul anka's other jobbie, holly st.james (yes!), joannie summers, jackie forrest etc; I know some of you will violently disagree with me on this one, but I felt depths were really being trawled that year. I began to lose interest in a big way, & it wasn't as if I could gravitate towards the funk rooms, hideous places peopled by Djs with names like duke polluta, I kid you not. it was at a notts palais all-dayer. I think most of us who felt like that just weathered the storm until west hampstead & the 100 club came along, but that's another story... right, a soul record masquerading as pop? this is a bit like animal farm. 4 legs good, two legs bad etc, david & the giants springs to mind, & he was black I believe. anything by the drifters. gene mcdaniels is a bit 'polished' for my ears. walter jackson wanted desperately to be a mainstream pop performer, but a voice to die for all the same... can't think of any others right now.

macca

[Wiganer1]

an interesting debate. I never considered moses smith to be a closet pop record. that intro always used to warm the old cockles. you could be hearing some really cutting edge new stuff from richard searling or soul sam, circa 76/77 & when someone rolled out an old war horse like paul anka, johnny caswell, earl grant, salvadors etc, I used to find it enormously uplifting. however, sometime in 1978, I began to loath nearly everything I heard, I mean records like kiki dee, barry benson, helen shapiro, ben zine, lou roberts, cobblestone, 7 dwarfs, teddy vann, ral donner, peggy march, paul anka's other jobbie, holly st.james (yes!), joannie summers, jackie forrest etc; I know some of you will violently disagree with me on this one, but I felt depths were really being trawled that year. I began to lose interest in a big way, & it wasn't as if I could gravitate towards the funk rooms, hideous places peopled by Djs with names like duke polluta, I kid you not. it was at a notts palais all-dayer. I think most of us who felt like that just weathered the storm until west hampstead & the 100 club came along, but that's another story... right, a soul record masquerading as pop? this is a bit like animal farm. 4 legs good, two legs bad etc, david & the giants springs to mind, & he was black I believe. anything by the drifters. gene mcdaniels is a bit 'polished' for my ears. walter jackson wanted desperately to be a mainstream pop performer, but a voice to die for all the same... can't think of any others right now.

macca

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blimey macca i liek all those records u hated esp Barry Benson

got an original of jackie forrest last year,,wanted it for ages

each to their own mate

[Makemvinyl]

now have a vision of people on floor , looking at watches and then up at the decks, pulling out inhalers, being helped back to the chair

that will be me then

ad to this list OTIS SMITH AND "LET HER GO" OUT AND OUT GOOD MUSIC BIT LIKE MOSES SMITH IS THAT THE PROB ADY OR ARE U JUST TRYING TO MAKE THINGS INTERESTING, STILL CANT WAIT TO PUT SKIRT AND TOP ON FOR THE ALL GIRL SOUL ALLNIGHTER AT THE 100 CLUB,OR IS DRESSING UP LIKE KENNY NOT ALLOWED. SORRY KEN.

Edited November 14, 2005 by MAKEMVINYL

[macca]

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blimey macca i liek all those records u hated esp Barry Benson

got an original of jackie forrest last year,,wanted it for ages

each to their own mate

that's what it's all about mate, innit? it'd be a boring old world if we all liked the same stuff, tremendous clich, but never a true word etc; do you remember those wigan playlists you emailed me a few years ago? well, they served as a crushing reminder to me that it all went pear-shaped early to mid 78. I remember late 76, early 77 as being really memorable, though obviously some shite was doled out then too. after all, disraeli said the golden age is never the present, so some of us will tend to gaze back on what is most probably an unreal past. I'll probably be reminded by some what a dire period this was too, but I don't care, it was around this time that I heard lenny curtis, yvonne vernee & gene woodbury for the first time. my life would never be the same again.

macca

[Dayo]

I think Moses is a good record but it should definitely be rejected due to its excessively violent message.

He doesn't even bother to hide his murderous fantasies about the object of his affection.

Midway through the song he distinctly sings "One day I'll get my nerve up... I'll axe her out on a date"

If I was her I'd find another street to live in, sharpish!

Love it!

[stomper45]

am with you Macca, yes I hate Holly St James "thats not soul" too

think it was 78 for my pop i started going to the Hacienda and stopped venturing to Wigan for my (northern) soul, pity as from playlists things got a lot better

danny

[Wiganer1]

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too true

although i love most of the old wigan sounds and am still on my pilgramage to collect every tune that was played there..

im still dumbfounded at some of the stuff that got played

some of the worst

joe 90

jonathans experience @ mgm - (richards old hi boys cover up)

chantells - runaway..

one thing is u cant blame me..i wasnt around til a few years later

[Cheltsoulnights]

isn't there a 7 min version or something knocking around

havent heard it, but thought how did they stretch it out that long , loop intro 32 times?

Would that not be "Girl across the Motorway" then?