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Anyone Help On Realistic Values ?

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Last Manship Prices :

Sound Masters: 600GBP

Epsilons: 150GBP

Paul Thompson: 700GBP

But there is a brand new Manship Guide coming out in November. These prices may have gone up, you know?

Go with your gut, man. You might be able to pull some decent prices from these three records. I've seen a Sound Masters on eBay in the past year, but don't remember what it went for; it was a lot, though. As for the Epsilons, it turns up every so often. As for Paul Thompson, I've never ever seen it. You might want to ask several people's opinions overall.

My opinion is, flog the two big ones and try to hold onto the Epsilons. It's a great song and might be worth keeping for the fact that it's not super super rare. You'd be pissing money away on it. And you know how things go-it'll go big and you'll pay double to get it again. Try selling the other two and get a substantial amount of cash to do what you've got to do.

That's my opinion.

-Jas

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I think the Paul Thompson is overpriced at 700 ( IMO) !!!!

forget what JM says its on bloody Volt, should be about 4-500

link

Probably right, but the last one I was aware of for sale went for £1000 !

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What do you mean by "mega rare"? Paul Thompson is certainly hard but I have seen a few over the last 4 years or so, and quite a few people in the UK have it, certainly not "mega" anything IMO, apart from perhaps mega-overpriced. A very ordinary tune too IMO. Still, you will get good money for it if you sell it. Sound Masters is around in at least small quantity, but still sells for £500 - £600 apparently. There was several copies up for grabs a few years ago at a few hundred each, and since it became really popular and sold for £700+ plenty of new copies have surfaced. Seems to be a "if you want it and will pay for it, you will get it" type of record. Anyone who has been getting a few lists from the UK and US and has been watching ebay for the last few years will confirm, unless their memory is very weak of course.

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New car needed, can anyone please advise on what these are worth today. Thanks in advance....

link

Hi i am interested in the paul thompson at the right price

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What do you mean by "mega rare"? Paul Thompson is certainly hard but I have seen a few over the last 4 years or so, and quite a few people in the UK have it, certainly not "mega" anything IMO, apart from perhaps mega-overpriced. A very ordinary tune too IMO. Still, you will get good money for it if you sell it. Sound Masters is around in at least small quantity, but still sells for £500 - £600 apparently. There was several copies up for grabs a few years ago at a few hundred each, and since it became really popular and sold for £700+ plenty of new copies have surfaced. Seems to be a "if you want it and will pay for it, you will get it" type of record. Anyone who has been getting a few lists from the UK and US and has been watching ebay for the last few years will confirm, unless their memory is very weak of course.

link

I must agree on this, Paul Thompson is surprisingly rare to be on the Volt label but not ultra rare at all.. 2 copies turned up at my friends store here in Stockholm a couple years ago and i've seen it a couple times..

Wouldn't mind the Epsilons 45 :rolleyes:

best

Leo

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Paul Thompson, although not ultra rare it is rare and regulary goes for £500 plus both on e-bay and on lists.

Regardless of how many copies of the Soundmasters there was and the prices it was fetching it doesn't come up for sale that often now and whn it does it has been selling for around the £600.

Both the above prices seem to be pretty steady so it must be what they are worth now.

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I must agree on this, Paul Thompson is surprisingly rare to be on the Volt label but not ultra rare at all.. 2 copies turned up at my friends store here in Stockholm a couple years ago and i've seen it a couple times..

Wouldn't mind the Epsilons 45  :)

best

Leo

link

So you have seen four copies over the last couple of years or so??? :D

Judging by the number of copies of various records on e-bay, Bill Bush, JM Matthews, Bobby Kline, Oxford Knights, Hyperions etc, and the often ridiculous prices they are fetching, I would class Paul Thompson as pretty rare and well worth the amounts stated :Dwhistling.gif:)

Edited by chalky

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Regardless of how many copies of the Soundmasters there was and the prices it was fetching it doesn't come up for sale that often now and whn it does it has been selling for around the £600.

Not too long ago there was a guy on ebay who sold four or more copies of the Soundmasters at the same time. When I looked they were still way under 200 USD. As I had to dosh I did not follow the auction until the end. Beside that it is up on ebay every single month (as at the moment). It`s a great record, but (at the moment at least) not a mega rarity justifying such a price IMHO :P

Marc

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New car needed, can anyone please advise on what these are worth today. Thanks in advance....

link

Anyway, how much do you want for Paul Thompson ?

email smannion@adm-tech.net

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The Soundmasters 45's are coming from a dealer in Las Vegas: selling under the name "Brooklyn-Born" or "Groupsounds". I myself think they are the same person, and that person being the infamous Rich Rosen. He always seems to have large amounts of the records he sells. I don't know if others have dealt with him, but I think he ranks low in character and clas department. Surely you would know if you have dealt with him...

Maybe a thread about rude record dealers is in order... I myself have LOTS of stories.

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The Soundmasters 45's are coming from a dealer in Las Vegas: selling under the name "Brooklyn-Born" or "Groupsounds". I myself think they are the same person, and that person being the infamous Rich Rosen. He always seems to have large amounts of the records he sells. I don't know if others have dealt with him, but I think he ranks low in character and clas department. Surely you would know if you have dealt with him...

Maybe a thread about rude record dealers is in order... I myself have LOTS of stories.

link

Yes, this guy came also along my way.

I bought the Fredrick Hymes III of him, when he had it for "buy it now" $450 on the bay. It's some months ago and I thought it would be a fair price, but then it turned out that he has lots of them.

But I don't think he's such a bad guy. Also I have to say, that I didn't buy anything else of him, because he always seems to get top prices.

Would be an interesting topic with the bad dealers. Start one, I'd like to hear your stories.

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The Soundmasters 45's are coming from a dealer in Las Vegas: selling under the name "Brooklyn-Born" or "Groupsounds". I myself think they are the same person, and that person being the infamous Rich Rosen. He always seems to have large amounts of the records he sells. I don't know if others have dealt with him, but I think he ranks low in character and clas department. Surely you would know if you have dealt with him...

Maybe a thread about rude record dealers is in order... I myself have LOTS of stories.

link

It is the same seller.... always understood his name to be Joe "something or other", can't recall at the moment.... :)

Know of people who have bought some nice stuff off him.... BUT does appear to get "loads" of rare stuff at one go :) .... a la Royal Esquires, Frederick Hymes.... always listed as "mint minus".... and the scans of the "labels" sometimes appear "too new" :shades:

Real ? boots ? Not sure.... time will tell....

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It is the same seller.... always understood his name to be Joe "something or other", can't recall at the moment....

Begins with "C" Catano or summat similiar...can't recall off hand exactly.

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I think I got his name. Could it be that his name is Joseph Giattino?

I remember a rumour that he knew the label owner of Fab Vegas and bought all of them

Edited by soulie78

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I think I got his name. Could it be that his name is Joseph Gattino?

I remember a rumour that he knew the label owner of Fab Vegas and bought all of them

link

Was sure it began with a C after Chalky's post of Catano.... but now.... mmmm.... C or G.... could be Gattino....

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My girlfriend bought a record of him some weeks ago, and we still have the packaging. The adress sticker says from Frances & Joseph Giattino in Las Vegas ( forgot the first i in my last post), and I think it's the only 45 we got from Las Vegas the last weeks.

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My girlfriend bought a record of him some weeks ago, and we still have the packaging. The adress sticker says from Frances & Joseph Giattino in Las Vegas ( forgot the first i in my last post), and I think it's the only 45 we got from Las Vegas the last weeks.

link

Thats him!

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It is the same seller.... always understood his name to be Joe "something or other", can't recall at the moment.... :)

Know of people who have bought some nice stuff off him.... BUT does appear to get "loads" of rare stuff at one go :) .... a la Royal Esquires, Frederick Hymes.... always listed as "mint minus".... and the scans of the "labels" sometimes appear "too new" :shades:

Real ? boots ? Not sure.... time will tell....

link

A lot of the print on the labels looks kind of similar too :)

Wasn't this the same guy who was selling the gold Four Voices and the Valise Johnny Watson too?

Has anyone ever bought a styrene record off him or all all the expensive items on that flexible vinyl?

And why do people continue to pay the prices he asks when he has loads of copies of each 'rarity'? :huh:

Godz

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But probably grouprecords and brooklyn-born are not the same sellers. I'm talking of brooklyn-born.

link

They are the same seller.... two ID's.... mixes his sales between the two.... :)

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A lot of the print on the labels looks kind of similar too :shades:

Wasn't this the same guy who was selling the gold Four Voices and the Valise Johnny Watson too?

Has anyone ever bought a styrene record off him or all all the expensive items on that flexible vinyl?

And why do people continue to pay the prices he asks when he has loads of copies of each 'rarity'?  :)

Godz

link

Yes he did sell the Four Voices and Johnny Watson....

I seen him sell some of his stuff on Styrene.... funnily enough these are usually VG or VG+ not mint minus.... and labels show wear.... mmmm....

Why indeed.... can only assume people don't realise he lists the same "rarity" over a period on months....

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The same with all the prix-label stuff(Royal Esquires, Joe King...)

I heared the same rumour with the label owner...

But he's cleverer than the guy with the Oxford Knights, he doesn't put all of those on ebay at the same time.

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The same with all the prix-label stuff(Royal Esquires, Joe King...)

I heared the same rumour with the label owner...

But he's cleverer than the guy with the Oxford Knights, he doesn't put all of those on ebay at the same time.

link

Cleverer.... probably.... if you mean not "flooding" them all out together week after week....

Oxford Nights seller.... mmmm.... not sure about this one.... can't make my mind up.... perhaps it's the "peddler" part of the ID that casts doubt in my mind....

Seem to recall he also "off loaded" a number of Singing Swinging Counts on Label.... had gold writing and not silver though.... :)

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Cleverer.... probably.... if you mean not "flooding" them all out together week after week....

Oxford Nights seller.... mmmm.... not sure about this one.... can't make my mind up.... perhaps it's the "peddler" part of the ID that casts doubt in my mind....

Seem to recall he also "off loaded" a number of Singing Swinging Counts on Label.... had gold writing and not silver though.... :)

link

Yeah, I'm not sure about the peddler, too. Also because of all the beach-label stuff he sales, I'm not sure about all those beach pressings, were those legal?

A friend of mine bought the second copy of O. N. and I asked him about the record. He told me that the label is matt and it has a stamp in the run out. But after the statements about those copies early on this forum, I'm not sure at all.

Edited by soulie78

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Yeah, I'm not sure about the peddler, too. Also because of all the beach-label stuff he sales, I'm not sure about all those beach pressings, were those legal?

A friend of mine bought the second copy of O. K. and I asked him about the record. He told me that the label is matt and it has a stamp in the run out. But after the statements about those copies early on this forum, I'm not sure at all.

link

Never bought nothing of the "p...." so have no idea if other stuff real or not.... just avoid buying to make sure.... even when sellers offer "full refund" I don't take that as an assurance....

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Yes he did sell the Four Voices and Johnny Watson....

I seen him sell some of his stuff on Styrene.... funnily enough these are usually VG or VG+ not mint minus.... and labels show wear.... mmmm....

Why indeed.... can only assume people don't realise he lists the same "rarity" over a period on months....

link

Regarding big label stuff on styrene, I made this point a few weeks ago about nothing turning up in mint condition since Danny Moore did a few years ago - can you get a record pressed on styrene now?. My bones tell me there's something dodgy about these records and I'll lay money on more Del Larks's demos turning up in the near future. Has anyone got acess to and ''original'' and a newly found one? In the past, the game has been given away because the newly found MINT copies don't play as long as what the time says on the label. The only way to get rid of those pops and crackles in the last few seconds is to fade out the record early! If you don't believe me go away and play your "original" green label copy of the Salvadors and if it play 2:22 instead of 2:25 you've got a very expensive pressing!

Edited by Hippo

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Regarding big label stuff on styrene, I made this point a few weeks ago about nothing turning up in mint condition since Danny Moore did a few years ago - can you get a record pressed on styrene now?.  My bones tell me there's something dodgy about these records and I'll lay money on more Del Larks's demos turning up in the near future.  Has anyone got acess to and ''original'' and a newly found one? In the past, the game has been given away because the newly found MINT copies don't play as long as what the time says on the label. The only way to get rid of those pops and crackles in the last few seconds is to fade out the record early! If you don't believe me go away and play your "original" green label copy of the Salvadors and if it play 2:22 instead of 2:25 you've got a very expensive pressing!

link

Interesting topic this re dodgy records.... although got away from the topic title of "realistic values" :shades:

With today's technology, knowhow and access to pressing plants.... and of course JM's guide that "shows" what a "record" can fetch.... who knows :) .... Del Lark's demos turning up.... not sure I'd bet against it either....

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Regarding big label stuff on styrene, I made this point a few weeks ago about nothing turning up in mint condition since Danny Moore did a few years ago - can you get a record pressed on styrene now?.  My bones tell me there's something dodgy about these records and I'll lay money on more Del Larks's demos turning up in the near future.  Has anyone got acess to and ''original'' and a newly found one? In the past, the game has been given away because the newly found MINT copies don't play as long as what the time says on the label. The only way to get rid of those pops and crackles in the last few seconds is to fade out the record early! If you don't believe me go away and play your "original" green label copy of the Salvadors and if it play 2:22 instead of 2:25 you've got a very expensive pressing!

link

Brooklyn-born definately gets things pressed. Unless of course there really are copies of All of My Life by the Ringleaders on M-pac...

:)

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Interesting topic this re dodgy records.... although got away from the topic title of "realistic values" :shades:

With today's technology, knowhow and access to pressing plants.... and of course JM's guide that "shows" what a "record" can fetch.... who knows :) .... Del Lark's demos turning up.... not sure I'd bet against it either....

link

If it cost the equivalent of £500 to press up a couple of hundred copies of the Del Larks, you could bin 199 of them and still make £2000 profit!!!!!

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If it cost the equivalent of £500 to press up a couple of hundred copies of the Del Larks, you could bin 199 of them and still make £2000 profit!!!!!

link

:shades::):huh::)

Too true.... but not all 199 Hippo.... surely.... put a couple or three out over the year to cover all the "time and effort" put into "finding" the rarity as well.... :):)

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Brooklyn-born definately gets things pressed. Unless of course there really are copies of All of My Life by the Ringleaders on M-pac...

:shades:

link

No, no.... credit where due.... the description on these does say summat like "never issued" and "repro" somewhere within it I seem to recall.... :)

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No, no.... credit where due.... the description on these does say summat like "never issued" and "repro" somewhere within it I seem to recall.... :)

link

You're right of course Mark - I just meant that it looks like he has the facility to get 45s pressed up. He also seems to get multiple copies of rare doo wop items in more or less mint nick as well. Glad i don't collect that too!

Godz

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Brooklyn-born definately gets things pressed. Unless of course there really are copies of All of My Life by the Ringleaders on M-pac...

:)

link

I thought he says the Ringleaders is a pressing in description...or never issued until now..or words to that effect.

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You're right of course Mark - I just meant that it looks like he has the facility to get 45s pressed up. He also seems to get multiple copies of rare doo wop items in more or less mint nick as well. Glad i don't collect that too!

Godz

link

If someone has the Ringleaders and other stuff from him, it would be interesting to compare the pressings. Probably there are some characteristc marks, that they are from the same pressing plant.

Edited by soulie78

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:shades:   :)   :huh:   :)

Too true.... but not all 199 Hippo.... surely.... put a couple or three out over the year to cover all the "time and effort" put into "finding" the rarity as well.... :)   :)

link

I shall be too busy flogging my super mega rare MINT copy of JD Bryant on vinyl not styrene as the other 2 or 3 crapy copies on styrene are!!!!

Also, my ''surley a world one off" MINT one sided white label test pressing of the Mellow Souls (I don't have a recording of the B Side or scans of the labells!!! :-) )

And then there's those rare Alaska released copies of Frank Wilson on rainbow coloured vinyl I found in a Antartic thrift store...................

Edited by Hippo

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I shall be too busy flogging my super mega rare MINT copy of JD Bryant on vinyl not styrene as the other 2 or 3 crapy copies on styrene are!!!!

Also, my ''surley a  world one off"  MINT one sided white label test pressing of the Mellow Souls (I don't have a recording of the B Side or scans of the labells!!! :-)  )

And then there's those rare Alaska released copies of Frank Wilson on rainbow coloured vinyl I found in a Antartic thrift store...................

link

Must have one of your sales lists Hippo :shades::):)

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Also, my ''surley a world one off" MINT one sided white label test pressing of the Mellow Souls (I don't have a recording of the B Side or scans of the labells!!! :-) )

:shades::):huh:

Actually a studio acetate exists :) Des Parker has a Dick Clark acetate. The Mello Souls is a Virtue recording tho' :)

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:shades:   :)   :huh:

Actually a studio acetate exists  :) Des Parker has a Dick Clark acetate.  The Mello Souls is a Virtue recording tho'  :)

link

Would have thought it'd be a Virtue acetate then! Don't Dick Charles acatetes tend to be more NY area recordings too?

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Brooklyn-born definately gets things pressed. Unless of course there really are copies of All of My Life by the Ringleaders on M-pac...

:)

link

NOTTINGHAM MAYBE ?

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Would have thought it'd be a Virtue acetate then!  Don't Dick Charles acatetes tend to be more NY area recordings too?

link

Was mentioned before, and as while sorting old reviews out from a few years back , thought throw up.

As come across review, where mentions that Kev Murphy was playing it, and says off a" offical" acetate

Now refreshed memory reckons that had a quick gander at it, and while didnt get many details it did look like "offical" acetate to me at time, if you know what I mean :)

(aged and printed/typed)

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I thought he says the Ringleaders is a pressing in description...or never issued until now..or words to that effect.

link

yeah, what seen/heard , sold from original and those close to it sources as a first ever issue, but sure was always clear that a recent release,

even though it has to be

with oxford knights and others mentioned,

myself always avoid ought with a sniff of "dodgyness" and gotta say that on same lines will also avoid any dealer who would be happy to flog it to me

always jacks me off way some people play the vinyl selling game, sure its a wide open game and buyer beware and all that, but imo no one has any right to rip any other soul fan off dishonestly, and always amazes me that people who if short changed at a pub would kick up a right fuss, seem to accept getting robbed if its vinyl

Edited by mike-

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The same with all the prix-label stuff(Royal Esquires, Joe King...)

I heared the same rumour with the label owner...

But he's cleverer than the guy with the Oxford Knights, he doesn't put all of those on ebay at the same time.

link

Must be Oxford Nights of course, not Knights, I think I've played too much chess in the past! Oh and I even infected Mike with my wrong spelling.

Edited by soulie78

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always jacks me off way some people play the vinyl selling game, sure its a wide open game and buyer beware and all that,  but imo no one has any right to rip any other soul fan off dishonestly, and  always amazes me that people who if short changed at a pub would kick up a right fuss, seem to accept getting robbed if its vinyl

 

The problem is that some of them aren't even soul fans, but money fans!

IMO no man has the right to rip anybody off. If it's to there knowledge they show high criminal energy and yes, you can call them rubbers and this should lead to the court.

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yeah, what seen/heard , sold from original and those close to it sources as a  first ever issue, but sure was always clear that a recent release,

even though it has to be

with oxford knights and others mentioned,

myself always avoid  ought with a sniff of "dodgyness" and gotta say that on same lines will also avoid any dealer who  would be happy to flog it to me

always jacks me off way some people play the vinyl selling game, sure its a wide open game and buyer beware and all that,  but imo no one has any right to rip any other soul fan off dishonestly, and  always amazes me that people who if short changed at a pub would kick up a right fuss, seem to accept getting robbed if its vinyl

link

I think the same seller in Las Vegas was selling some Bobby Bennett on V-Tone boots. Look the same but the label has "cut here" perforation marks round both the inside and outer edge of the label.

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Rich Rosen and Joe Giattino are not the same person, obviously, but I heard that they do cooperate which may explain that the same titles seem to appear from both of the ID's in question. Do any of you have any kind of evidence (and no, "my old mate thought so", is not evidence!) that any record passed of as an original was not an original? The gold Four Voices and Frank Dell and all those are well documented to not be originals but apart from that? And there has been tons of rare things on styrene that has turned up in mint condition, what are you on about? All the Shrine things and a zillion other things from the West Coast find are styrene. I am not saying clever forgery has never happened or that it can not happen or that it is not happening, BUT, do you have any evidence? I am also amazed at the sheer amount of valuable records in good condition that some dealers turn up, but my first conclusion is not that they are bootlegs. And lastly, are you guys aware of the fact that several pro US record dealers are (or at least were) members of this forum? I'd be a bit more careful with what I write if I were you, for many reasons. This is not exactly a private little chat room.

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And lastly, are you guys aware of the fact that several pro US record dealers are (or at least were) members of this forum? I'd be a bit more careful with what I write if I were you, for many reasons. This is not exactly a private little chat room.

link

think all are aware that the forum is open to all to read !

far better to discuss such stuff in open than behind closed doors

Edited by mike-

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