Undiscovered and Undocumented until now 

What do you think ??

 

 

B Side 

 

 

Both sides great stuff m8 👍

Cheers Baz, I really don't know how this has stayed hidden for so long ??

Came across this a couple of years ago via one of the band members.  Shelly is Shelly Garrett's label.

1 hour ago, Mouldy Old Soul said:

Cheers Baz, I really don't know how this has stayed hidden for so long ??

Ye me too who found it m8 ? 

Me 

 nice one I'd be fukin peacockin reyt me 😬lol atb baz

3 hours ago, Mouldy Old Soul said:

Undiscovered and Undocumented until now 

What do you think ??

 

 

It's an old Burnley Nighter record, I played it a few times back then. I believe it may well to be  'The Foreign Blue Renaissance', both records came to me from the same source, allegedly an ex group member via a dealer.

Edited June 12, 20177 yr by Tai-Pan

It is not Foreign Blue Renaissance

They were from Cleveland Ohio, The Tribulations are from San Bernardino CA

Formed from the Facades and the same group that had Mama's Love on Imperial

Managed by Shelly Garrett who both wrote and Produced by Shelly Garrett

I have played this to Richard Searling, Kev Roberts, Ted Massey, Dave Thorley and John Manship and no one  has ever heard or seen this before

So if you have a copy post it up let's see it !!!

 

On 6/12/2017 at 23:22, Tai-Pan said:

It's an old Burnley Nighter record, I played it a few times back then. I believe it may well to be  'The Foreign Blue Renaissance', both records came to me from the same source, allegedly an ex group member via a dealer.

Both Records ?? This is 1 record A&B sides 

Here's a  little bit of info. , photograph of the group and sound clips listed by band member Jay Tee, placed on soundcloud in 2015... 

https://soundcloud.com/jay-tee-201/sets/the-fascades-and-the-tribulations-songs

... one sold on Ebay in April for over $900.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tribulations-Packin-039-Up-My-Bags-UNKNOWN-NORTHERN-SOUL-45RPM-RECORD-SHELLY-MOTOWN-/112384552831?_ul=BO

and another in May for $900 and then the same person sold another one the week after for just short of $950, details here with quite a bit of info... https://www.valueyourmusic.com/items/112399892980?from=112391019118

I like the 'Packin' Up My Bags' side... nice tune! 

 

4 hours ago, Mouldy Old Soul said:

Both Records ?? This is 1 record A&B sides 

Thats right, both records, the FBR and the Shelly 45. Both came from a dealer in Ohio, (i'm aware the Shelly 45 was laid down on the west coast), neither was in mint condition, 2 copies of FBR 1 copy of the Tribs.

I think the spare FBR may have gone to someone in Burnley, the Shelly 45 was traded for an unreleased uptempo thing by the Geminis on RCA.

I've only seen it 3 times since then one on ebay about 3 years back and another couple about a month ago. Always thought it may be quite rare, has it turned up or something? 

Would you mind checking the matrix stamp to see what year it was pressed?

Cheers

I think from memory the 45 is mentioned in Shelly Garrets book....' The Unbelievable and True Story Behind Shelly Garrett's Beauty Shop'. From memory tho' so could be wrong

6 hours ago, Gazoor said:

Here's a  little bit of info. , photograph of the group and sound clips listed by band member Jay Tee, placed on soundcloud in 2015... 

https://soundcloud.com/jay-tee-201/sets/the-fascades-and-the-tribulations-songs

... one sold on Ebay in April for over $900.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tribulations-Packin-039-Up-My-Bags-UNKNOWN-NORTHERN-SOUL-45RPM-RECORD-SHELLY-MOTOWN-/112384552831?_ul=BO

and another in May for $900 and then the same person sold another one the week after for just short of $950, details here with quite a bit of info... https://www.valueyourmusic.com/items/112399892980?from=112391019118

I like the 'Packin' Up My Bags' side... nice tune! 

 

It is the same record sold on ebay it was listed at $1999 and ended on May1st. the reserve was not met  

https://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=112384552831&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2765

 He then relisted it and someone bought it for $900 but did not pay for it so he relisted it again and I bought it for $949.99 on 5th May 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Tribulations-Packin-Up-My-Bags-RARE-NORTHERN-SOUL-45RPM-RECORD-SHELLY-MOTOWN-/112399892980?

https://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=Tribulations+Shelly&thumbs=&currsel=&sortord=&endfrom=&endthru=&ipp=&sdc=&x=17&y=10

 

1 hour ago, Andy Mac said:

I think from memory the 45 is mentioned in Shelly Garrets book....' The Unbelievable and True Story Behind Shelly Garrett's Beauty Shop'. From memory tho' so could be wrong

Yes it is, I emailed Shelly 3 weeks ago asking about this record because in the book he says he pressed Mama's Love/ Gonna Build Me A Man.  

No mention of I'm gonna Pack Up My Bags

He emailed me back yesterday with his phone number and a message and I quote " Call Me"  !!!

I will give him a call this very soon

2 hours ago, Tai-Pan said:

Thats right, both records, the FBR and the Shelly 45. Both came from a dealer in Ohio, (i'm aware the Shelly 45 was laid down on the west coast), neither was in mint condition, 2 copies of FBR 1 copy of the Tribs.

I think the spare FBR may have gone to someone in Burnley, the Shelly 45 was traded for an unreleased uptempo thing by the Geminis on RCA.

I've only seen it 3 times since then one on ebay about 3 years back and another couple about a month ago. Always thought it may be quite rare, has it turned up or something? 

Would you mind checking the matrix stamp to see what year it was pressed?

Cheers

Nothing on Popsike from 3 years ago ?? 

Just the one that I bought after someone bought it and did not pay for it so the guy relisted it

https://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=Tribulations+Shelly&thumbs=&currsel=&sortord=&endfrom=&endthru=&ipp=&sdc=&x=17&y=10

 

the matrix is scratched in triangle then 84187 at 1 O'clock  and 1414 at 4 O'clock

 

 

 

 

On 6/12/2017 at 19:59, Mouldy Old Soul said:

B Side 

 

 

Shrills very much like David Ruffin on this one! nice.

Same group as the Tribulations on Imperial ??...certainly a similar sounding lead vocal

I saw those Shelly Records at all 3 Dolphin's of Hollywood (Vernon & Central) ,(Manchester & Broadway) & Crenshaw & Leimert, as well as Pat's Records on San Pedro Place and Vernon, Sam's and Flash Records, as well as Crains, back in the mid-late '60s.  It was pressed at Monarch.  It must have been recorded in L.A.  There weren't any good recording studios in San Bernardino that I remember.  I remember that The Tribulations appeared in South L.A. clubs a few times.

I always thought they were the same group as The Imperial Tribulations.  Their releases were pretty close in time.  There wouldn't have been 2 different Tribulations groups operating in Southern California at the same time.

Edited June 15, 20177 yr by RobbK

Yes they are the same as the Imperial Tribulations. In Shelly's book he tells of his visit to Liberty to do the deal.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lRLaCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA20&dq=Shelly+Garrett+-+the+tribulations&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Shelly Garrett - the tribulations&f=false

So, Garrett recorded The Tribulations at Harmony Recording Studio on Melrose Ave. In Hollywood, and Imperial "sweetened it" (added strings?), or remix?, and changed it to stereo for their release.  I remember it being played only for a week or two on KGFJ.  Jimmy Connor's "Let's Get Married" was played for 2 months, and got better sales in Southern California.

14 hours ago, still diggin said:

Shrills very much like David Ruffin on this one! nice.

Shelly Garrett quotes in his book that the record company's in LA would not touch the group because the lead sounded too much like David Ruffin 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lRLaCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA2&dq=shelly+garrett&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=the tribulations&f=false

2 hours ago, RobbK said:

I saw those Shelly Records at all 3 Dolphin's of Hollywood (Vernon & Central) ,(Manchester & Broadway) & Crenshaw & Leimert, as well as Pat's Records on San Pedro Place and Vernon, Sam's and Flash Records, as well as Crains, back in the mid-late '60s.  It was pressed at Monarch.  It must have been recorded in L.A.  There weren't any good recording studios in San Bernardino that I remember.  I remember that The Tribulations appeared in South L.A. clubs a few times.

I always thought they were the same group as The Imperial Tribulations.  Their releases were pretty close in time.  There wouldn't have been 2 different Tribulations groups operating in Southern California at the same time.

It is the same group as the Imperial Tribulations that did Mama's Love 

It's here in Shelly's book 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lRLaCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA2&dq=shelly+garrett&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=the tribulations&f=false

6 hours ago, jez jones said:

Same group as the Tribulations on Imperial ??...certainly a similar sounding lead vocal

Yes it's the same group 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lRLaCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA2&dq=shelly+garrett&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=the tribulations&f=false

17 hours ago, Andy Mac said:

I think from memory the 45 is mentioned in Shelly Garrets book....' The Unbelievable and True Story Behind Shelly Garrett's Beauty Shop'. From memory tho' so could be wrong

Andy - https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lRLaCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA2&dq=shelly+garrett&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=the tribulations&f=false

2 hours ago, RobbK said:

I saw those Shelly Records at all 3 Dolphin's of Hollywood (Vernon & Central) ,(Manchester & Broadway) & Crenshaw & Leimert, as well as Pat's Records on San Pedro Place and Vernon, Sam's and Flash Records, as well as Crains, back in the mid-late '60s.  It was pressed at Monarch.  It must have been recorded in L.A.  There weren't any good recording studios in San Bernardino that I remember.  I remember that The Tribulations appeared in South L.A. clubs a few times.

I always thought they were the same group as The Imperial Tribulations.  Their releases were pretty close in time.  There wouldn't have been 2 different Tribulations groups operating in Southern California at the same time.

I can't find a release date and Shelly wrote in his book that he touted Mama's Love bw Gonna build me a man around the record labels, no mention of Gonna Pack Up My Bags ??  Shelly has sent me his phone number so I'm gonna call him and try to find some details 

What are the run out details?  If it was pressed at monarch it will have a delta number

 Mama's Love/You gave me up has Oct 1969 as its release date on 45cat

2 minutes ago, chalky said:

 Mama's Love/You gave me up has Oct 1969 as its release date on 45cat

That sounds too late, unless Shelly did a re-pressing in '69.  I think it was 1966, or 1967 at the latest, if I remember correctly.

10 minutes ago, RobbK said:

That sounds too late, unless Shelly did a re-pressing in '69.  I think it was 1966, or 1967 at the latest, if I remember correctly.

69 on the Imperial discography too

45 minutes ago, chalky said:

69 on the Imperial discography too

Yes, "Mama's Love"/"Gonna Build Me A Man" on Imperial was also listed as '69.  So, I guess my memory was wrong. 

4 hours ago, chalky said:

What are the run out details?  If it was pressed at monarch it will have a delta number

I don't have the table of monarchs delta numbers past '69, but it certainly isn't a 60's press. Extrapolating the production run rate volume, overlaying seasonality, it appears to have been released in January 1971.

4 minutes ago, Tai-Pan said:

I don't have the table of monarchs delta numbers past '69, but it certainly isn't a 60's press. Extrapolating the production run rate volume, overlaying seasonality, it appears to have been released in January 1971.

If that were true, that would mean Shelly released "Packin' Up My Bags" on Shelly 2 years AFTER Imperial picked up "Mama's Love"/"Gonna Build Me A Man".  I thought they both were issued in 1969.

1971 delta number would 83*** to 86***

 

16 minutes ago, chalky said:

1971 delta number would 83*** to 86***

 

Mouldy confirmed on a previous post that The Tribulations carries the delta number 84187. So it does seem a 1971 press. Does anyone know the delta or days of press of the other Shelly 45s? Notwithstanding the credits, are we sure the two sides are really the same artist? 

52 minutes ago, Tai-Pan said:

Mouldy confirmed on a previous post that The Tribulations carries the delta number 84187. So it does seem a 1971 press. Does anyone know the delta or days of press of the other Shelly 45s? Notwithstanding the credits, are we sure the two sides are really the same artist? 

I've got one of them, and was pretty sure it was pressed in the '60s.  But, I'm in Denmark now, and not with my 45s.  And after leaving here in 5 weeks, I'll be in Munich for 7 weeks, so I won't be able to check till September.  But, maybe the Delta 84187 was a 2nd pressing.  I know '71 was too early for press-ups for The NS Scene.  But maybe he had a reason.  Maybe Mouldy can ask him about the full history of every Shelly release?

On 6/15/2017 at 13:33, chalky said:

What are the run out details?  If it was pressed at monarch it will have a delta number

Chalky the matrix is scratched in triangle then 84187 at 1 O'clock  and 1414 at 4 O'clock

On 6/15/2017 at 14:37, RobbK said:

Yes, "Mama's Love"/"Gonna Build Me A Man" on Imperial was also listed as '69.  So, I guess my memory was wrong. 

Gonna Build me a Man was not the B side of Mama's Love

It was "You Gave Me Up For Promises" 

Although in his book he says he went to Liberty with Mama's Love"/"Gonna Build Me A Man  ??

I will ask him about that as well 

https://www.discogs.com/The-Tribulations-Mamas-Love-/release/5233370 

19 hours ago, RobbK said:

I've got one of them, and was pretty sure it was pressed in the '60s.  But, I'm in Denmark now, and not with my 45s.  And after leaving here in 5 weeks, I'll be in Munich for 7 weeks, so I won't be able to check till September.  But, maybe the Delta 84187 was a 2nd pressing.  I know '71 was too early for press-ups for The NS Scene.  But maybe he had a reason.  Maybe Mouldy can ask him about the full history of every Shelly release?

Ive got a list of questions to ask him as there are no dates in his book ??

1 hour ago, Mouldy Old Soul said:

Chalky the matrix is scratched in triangle then 84187 at 1 O'clock  and 1414 at 4 O'clock

That makes it a April/May 1971 press. If it was monarch it will have MR in a circle. So it was done after the Liberty deal. 

Edited June 16, 20177 yr by chalky

19 hours ago, chalky said:

That makes it a April/May 1971 press. If it was monarch it will have MR in a circle. So it was done after the Liberty deal. 

I cannot see a Monarch stamp. I will ask Shellly.

I'm gonna ring him Monday 

If it has a delta number but no monarch stamp, then it could well have been pressed at Alco (Steel Co.) also in L.A.

I am new to this site and thanks to this thread have found this photo of the Fasades

What I am pleased with is the Image there of a certain Mr El-ree Flores

This goes back to this thread in 2008

Now we know 😀 Thanks

 

Edited October 13, 20195 yr by Blackpoolsoul

35 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I am new to this site and thanks to this thread have found this photo of the Fasades

What I am pleased with is the Image there of a certain Mr El-ree Flores

This goes back to this thread in 2008

Now we know 😀 Thanks

 

Another of the Fasades