I apologise if this has been covered before and if so please direct me to any threads

I would like to know if someone knows about this late 1960's group and label please

I have searched around and there are quite a few sales but can't find much info

https://detroitsoulsingles.blogspot.com/2012/07/valtone.html

According to "Groovesville USA", the Valtone label was ownded by Frank and Val Brown.

The same source says the lead singer of the Fabulous Apollos was the same Joe Matthews 

who recorded "Ain't Nothing You Can Do".

52 minutes ago, The Yank said:

According to "Groovesville USA", the Valtone label was ownded by Frank and Val Brown.

The same source says the lead singer of the Fabulous Apollos was the same Joe Matthews 

who recorded "Ain't Nothing You Can Do".

Yes you are right,I was told that by Keith Rylatt quite some time ago. Chris. 

On 17/10/2019 at 19:28, Wheelsville1 said:

Yes you are right,I was told that by Keith Rylatt quite some time ago. Chris. 

Much respect to Keith, but he claimed The Four Pros were all white and it was proved they weren't at all, but he may know more about The Fabulous Apollos, I will ask my contact to message him

Edited October 20, 20195 yr by Blackpoolsoul

I have found this which also mentions Tony Michaels (I don't know why I didn't search a little better)

Would this be Tony Michaels AKA Anthony Micale ?

https://www.soulfulkindamusic.net/fabulousapollos.htm

Edited October 18, 20195 yr by Blackpoolsoul

The real name of the Tony Daniels mentioned in the link is Reggie Lamont who recorded for Bevel, Sport and Blue Rock.

22 hours ago, The Yank said:

According to "Groovesville USA", the Valtone label was ownded by Frank and Val Brown.

The same source says the lead singer of the Fabulous Apollos was the same Joe Matthews 

who recorded "Ain't Nothing You Can Do".

Yes, Frank Brown owned and managed Valtone.  I hadn't seen Val's name, but I assume (guess) that "Val" was his wife, named Valerie.  I have read that Joe Matthews was a group member, and sometimes lead (I remember them having different leads on different songs).

43 minutes ago, The Yank said:

The real name of the Tony Daniels mentioned in the link is Reggie Lamont who recorded for Bevel, Sport and Blue Rock.

Interesting to learn that Reggie Lamont was Tony Daniels! 

11 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I have found this which also mentions Tony Michaels (I don't know why I didn't search a little better)

Would this be Tony Michaels AKA Anthony Micale ?

https://www.soulfulkindamusic.net/fabulousapollos.htm

I have a hard time believing that Tony Micale was a member of The Fabulous Apollos.  I'm sure I've seen photos of the group, at least on posters for live events (back in the day), and they were an all Black group.  Tony was with Ed Wingate, as a member of The Reflections, and as solo artist, Tony Michaels, during most of the period The Fabulous Apollos operated. Besides, his voice is very distinct, and I don't remember hearing his voice in any of The fabulous Apollos' cuts.  I think that that is a mistaking of Tony Daniels for Tony Michaels,  IN FACT, using the link you posted, I got to Soulfulkindamusic, and Tony Daniels is printed there, rather than Tony Michaels.

Edited October 18, 20195 yr by Robbk

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

I have a hard time believing that Tony Micale was a member of The Fabulous Apollos.  I'm sure I've seen photos of the group, at least on posters for live events (back in the day), and they were an all Black group.  Tony was with Ed Wingate, as a member of The Reflections, and as solo artist, Tony Michaels, during most of the period The Fabulous Apollos operated. Besides, his voice is very distinct, and I don't remember hearing his voice in any of The fabulous Apollos' cuts.  I think that that is a mistaking of Tony Daniels for Tony Michaels,  IN FACT, using the link you posted, I got to Soulfulkindamusic, and Tony Daniels is printed there, rather than Tony Michaels.

Thanks Robb, that was just my eyesight...again

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

Interesting to learn that Reggie Lamont was Tony Daniels! 

Thanks to "The Yank"

https://www.soulfulkindamusic.net/rlamont.htm

Don't thank me- the info about Reggie/ Tony came from .........

       Keith Rylatt's "Groovesville USA ". 

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

Don't thank me- the info about Reggie/ Tony came from .........

       Keith Rylatt's "Groovesville USA ". 

He got that correct it seems 😀

On 18/10/2019 at 18:37, The Yank said:

Don't thank me- the info about Reggie/ Tony came from .........

       Keith Rylatt's "Groovesville USA ". 

Found a poster with the group performing with some serious people and Frank promoting it 

On 18/10/2019 at 18:37, The Yank said:

Don't thank me- the info about Reggie/ Tony came from .........

       Keith Rylatt's "Groovesville USA ". 

Did Frank and Val run Boss records do we think ? and do you have any info on The Celebrities

6 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Did Frank and Val run Boss records do we think ? and do you have any info on The Celebrities

I think I have found it on this post 

 

8 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I think I have found it on this post 

 

I have since learned that Val Brown was Frank's son.  The 4 Hollidays/ Four Hollidays (Jimmy Holland's group), were from Detroit, and resided in Detroit, but also recorded for some Chicago labels.  The Celebrities were a Detroit group, which had Dennis Edwards as their lead singer, for some of their existence.

I don't know if Frank Brown was an owner, or full owner of Detroit's Boss Records (which had no connection to Ric Williams' Chicago-based Boss Records (of 1962-63).

Here's a closer picture of the Fabulous Apollos from that poster above: 

 

I've always understood Boss to be owned by Frank Brown, but Dennis Edwards as a member of the Celebrities is news to me. I don't hear him on any of the records. 

Frank Brown was also an event promoter in and around Detroit. Leonard King recently posted some great posters on Facebook from concerts Frank put on in the 60s. This was Betty LaVette's comment:

"Frank Brown was promoter extradinare.

He rarely produced a flop show.

And the main thing about him was..when you arrived for your show he introduced himself and paid you THEN…Not after the show..or if it was a succeses, if you showed up ..you got paid. Jim Lewis adored him and they were great friends…when Frank had a gig brewing. If not no one saw him or hung with him and he never came to see ANYBODY.

He was about my height dark brown skin, pearly white teeth and a big smile..when spoken to. I worked with him many times and that is all I know, that anybody knows, about Frank Brown."

Denis Edwards wrote Didn’t Tell The Truth.  Can we be sure it is the Motown Dennis Edwards.  I don’t hear him at all in the recording and certainly not on lead vocals. 

On 30/04/2025 at 02:55, Chalky said:

Denis Edwards wrote Didn’t Tell The Truth.  Can we be sure it is the Motown Dennis Edwards.  I don’t hear him at all in the recording and certainly not on lead vocals. 

My memory must have deserted me on that post.  I DO remember a Detroit collector telling me that Dennis Edwards was once a member of The Celebrities, but not that he was their lead singer, and not that he was definitely a group member when they recorded the Boss Records cuts.  He didn't say that THAT Dennis Edwards was Motown's guy, but I think he meant that, otherwise he'd have mentioned that this was a different Dennis Edwards.

NOT TOO MUCH HELP ... BUT ...  From January 1961 to December 1963, Edwards was called up to serve in the U.S. Army. He spent most of his time stationed in Europe, where he would perform on base with other guys he served with. Before his Army stint he'd sung in gospel + R&B groups around Detroit. So, on his return from the Army, I guess it would have made sense that he'd get back into singing / performing (with a group ?) in 1964.   

21 hours ago, Roburt said:

NOT TOO MUCH HELP ... BUT ...  From January 1961 to December 1963, Edwards was called up to serve in the U.S. Army. He spent most of his time stationed in Europe, where he would perform on base with other guys he served with. Before his Army stint he'd sung in gospel + R&B groups around Detroit. So, on his return from the Army, I guess it would have made sense that he'd get back into singing / performing (with a group ?) in 1964.   

Wow!  I'd like to know which Detroit R&B and Gospel groups Dennis sang with before 1961.  He was called up to The Army as soon as he reached age 18 (Born Feb. 2nd 1943).  So, he'd have been 16 and 17 in 1959 and 1960.

I'd like to find more about his time in the Army in Europe. I know in England, USAF (& similar US unit) bases had their own newspapers (just distributed around each base & to adjacent bases -- for instance; in Suffolk; Lakenheath & Mildenhall + not too far away Alconbury). These newspapers (+ the base's radio stns) would document what had recently happened on bases & what was upcoming. Just about all these bases were almost self-contained -- their own supermarket (stocked with US made goods including food), their own bar, their own bowling alley + their own theatre. The theatres would be used to show the latest films AND to stage live shows from pop / soul acts.  Lots of US soul groups were signed up to tour overseas based by the USOE and they'd be flown over to the likes of the UK, Europe, Philippines, Japan (& war zones such as Viet Nam) to entertain the troops. These shows would be heralded in the base newspapers to ensure these shows were known about by everyone on base.

ANYWAY, if a bunch of base personnel formed a group & were considered good enough, they'd be asked to do a show in the base's bar or theatre. If this went well, adjacent bases would ask them to perform there also, and this info would go in each base's newspaper.

As the only language Americans speak is English (we're not much better here either), even if a base was in Germany, Italy or Spain, the newspaper would be in English. I'd love to get access to some of these papers to see if the exploits of the likes of Dennis Edwards, Edwin Starr (sorry, Charles Hatcher), the Servicemen (with Larry Banks) and the like were documented back then. We know a lot more about the exploits of certain US military guys in the UK -- Geno Washington, Sonny Childe aka R B Greaves, Herbie Goins, etc.  -- earlier the likes of Lou Rawls (Korean war period) had done the same. . . . But most of what we know of the above is their off-base exploits, not who they teamed with on-base and which bases the groups they played in / were with did shows at.

Anyone done an in depth interview with Dennis (or the like) that asked him about his time in the military  or who he sang with before he was drafted ? 

I got to sit down & chat with Edwin about his time in Cleveland before he was in the military & then teamed with Bill Doggett to sing lead vocals for the combo ... but I failed to ask him anything about his time in the military (3 years on European US Army bases). I know he formed groups in the army but have no idea what they called themselves or on which bases they got to perform. As Edwin had recorded with his Cleveland group (the Futuretones) before going into the military, so I'm sure that during his spell in the army (1960 to 63 ?), he'd have done all sorts musically. Same for Dennis also I'd guess.