Which is the origional issue, black or the brown Argo? Maybe both are origional?

All/any advice much appreciated.

Regards.

Drew.

What a fantastic question and I don't know if we will ever know

The label changed to Chess the same year 1965 as I think they were under threat from the UK Argo label

The LP labels were just as varied

There were at least 8 different variations of the single, including an orange and yellow one as well

(Bootlegs)

Edited June 1, 20204 yr by Blackpoolsoul

Both from same year but the black has the wrong credit according to discogs, maybe be black then brown when corrected?  

B-Side erroneously credited to "R. Ford" instead of "R. Fort"

Black label matrix etc, what is the run out details on the brown?

Matrix / Runout: 13696

Matrix / Runout: 13697

Label Code: 13696-R

Label Code: 13697

Thanks for the replies both.

So both are considered originals then Chalky?

Regards.

Drew.

4 hours ago, Drew3 said:

Thanks for the replies both.

So both are considered originals then Chalky?

Regards.

Drew.

They are as far as I an concerned yes

Thanks for your time on this. 👍

Regards.

Drew.

I remember seeing the black first, but both were out early in the record's run.  Likely they were just different pressing plant issues, with one plant having a back stock of the older black blank labels, and having to use them up first.  Black came first on Argo, and later, the brown design.

10 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

 

The label changed to Chess the same year 1965 as I think they were under threat from the UK Argo label

 

Argo was actually changed to Cadet.  Chess and Checker remained the same.

Edited June 1, 20204 yr by The Yank

56 minutes ago, The Yank said:

Argo was actually changed to Cadet.  Chess and Checker remained the same.

Brains mashed it's the sun, thanks

It's not to be set a rule but assuming 'promotional' copies are part of the first pressed 'batch', the 'brown' release had a real promotional release. The black Argo not apparently. Sticking to my Artone picture sleeve press

As Robbk said, it could be a typical case where some pressing plants still had stashes of 'old' the labels to use after the new labels where already used in other pressing plants instead of being 'first' and 'second' release.

Edited June 1, 20204 yr by Tlscapital

21 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Brains mashed it's the sun, thanks

    Happens to all of us- don't worry about it! 

    From Record World October 9, 1965 - 

 

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

    Happens to all of us- don't worry about it! 

    From Record World October 9, 1965 - 

 

It is amazing that a US company got frightened by a UK company ?

15 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

It is amazing that a US company got frightened by a UK company ?

I don't think it was a matter of Chess being frightened by lawsuits from a British company.  I think it was a lot more about Chess expanding strongly into international markets (especially Britain and Western Europe), and they wanted to upgrade their narrow former image as a merely an American Blues and R&B label, to an international multi-genre record company; and they wanted to have good relationships with UK and European distributors, where British Decca was already strongly entrenched. 

 

This was also a chance to enhance their marketing by alliterating their major label names, by changing the Argo to a name starting with C, to have their vocalised label lineup roll off the tongue: "The Chess, Checker, Cadet (and later, Cadet Concept) Group, which not long after, was introduced into their marketing campaigns, including on their company record sleeves.  Argo was too unique, and different a name, with a much more individualised logo (picture of Jason's ship), invoking the idea of The Argosy - an image of the company taking a voyage up the charts from anonymity to World fame.  Indeed, during the time of their early black and silver label, it was difficult to make the connection that it was related to the more bland Chess and Checker labels, unless one noticed the Arc Music credits.

The Chess brothers 3rd label (after Chess and Checker) did have a lot of problems with its name. It 

started out as Marterry and was changed to Argo after band leader Ralph Marterrie objected to the 

name. The Argo name lasted about 9 years before finally going to Cadet.