Hi All

Not sure if this has been covered before. People used to say the it was Double Exposure-Ten Percent. But over the years I have heard it sugested that there may have been others?

Hi All

Not sure if this has been covered before. People used to say the it was Double Exposure-Ten Percent. But over the years I have heard it sugested that there may have been others?

I always thought the first UK Soul 12" was Undisputed Truth " You + me = love "[Whitfield ] Anyone confirm ? Best ,Eddie

ALL THIS INFO IS IN A SUPERB BOOK ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE DISCO SCENE IN THE U.S WHICH FOR THE LIFE OF ME I CANT REMEMBER THE TITLE OF....... :angry: DOH........ !!!!!!!!!!!!!

" Last night a DJ saved my life " - Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton ?, yes great read Ivor .........Best ,Eddie

Clearly thats wrong cuz in the US a whole bunch came out in 1975

Dave, when you say the first 12"....in the UK or in the USA? Playing at 45rpm or 33rpm? Because you could argue that 78s were the first 12"s But certainly in the UK, Herbie Hancock 'I thought it was you', Cheryl Lynn 'To be real', The Players 'Turn the music up' etc were amongst the first batch in the UK. I was working in HMV Oxford St and the Cheryl Lynn caused a bit of a stir...there were the reggae 12"s as well - all the Joe Gibb recordings with the woman bending over design on the label and the spindle on the deck sticking through her....jeans But I'm sure the Salsoul 12"s were some of the first on both side of the Atlantic. Jo

This can't be right Malc. I had T. Connection - Do Anything you wanna do on UK TK. That was dated '76

me too......incidentally it was the first 12" i bought also...my dad thought it would never catch on!!!!!!

Now I come to think of it....I had a T Connection on 12" too - so that's earlier than Cheryl Lynn. It's difficult getting my memory to stretch back that far Jo

Do they play at 45 or 33?

Maybe that's where they get there date from....

Slightly off topic, so please forgive me.

I always wondered what the story behind this was:

It appears to be a 12" 'trimmed' down to 7". It has no cue-in at the beginning (was a tw@t to play after a few lagers), and plays at 33.

I forgot to ask Warren when he was on here a few years ago the story behind it.....

Jamie

This topic was discussed way back on the old ANS forum - once again here is a posting from it - Ian Levine was adamant that Vickie Sue Robinson was the first ..........................

I'm sorry but I not only know my stuff here... in fact I was a

consultant on many TV shows about the history of Disco music ......

but I was actually THERE at the time. In 1975 Tom Moulton took me to the

Infinity in New York. Vickie Sue Robinson was tyhe first twelve

hmmm ian is partly right 1n 76 it was the first 'COMMERCIAL' 12" on r.c.a but it was nowhere near the first 12", in 1975 on a promo including midland international releases it was r.c.a's sixth promo12"

hi all

i think this may be an early commercial 12". Not exactly the pinical of soul but Frankie Valli - Swearin' to God - Private Stock. Its a 1975 recording but was probably released in 76 as the b side is from that year. I'm far too young to know when exactly it was released. I have this nagging thought that I have heard or seen this mentioned for some reason.

Cheers

Phil

The first UK 12" was the release in 1977 , of " Do Ya Wanna Get Funky With Me " ( 9.13 ) by Peter Brown on TK STKR 6009 .

Malc Burton

I'm pretty sure that The Emotions "Flowers" predated Peter Brown in early 1977?

There were a couple of UK 'demo only' 12" also issued in 1976, including James Wells' "Baby I'm Still The Same Man" on Polydor and Originals "Down To Lovetown" (Motown) plus I used to have at least one other demo only 12", "Touch" by the Supremes. I believe that "Breakaway" by Ernie Bush on Contempo laid claim to being the first actual 12" commercial issue in the UK at the time.

I found a 12" of The Moments "Nine Times" c/w Rimshots "Do What You Feel" on All Platinum at a record fair many years ago, which I don't ever recall seeing at the time (1976) - assuming it came out at the time of the 7" releases (a big assumption), that would make it very early indeed, or it may in fact have been a promotional item only.

There was a rumour that Candi Staton's "Young Hearts Run Free" was pressed on promo 12" - though whether that was a UK pressing is unclear - however, I have never seen a copy listed for sale. FLOYD SMITH - "I Just Can't Give You Up" (?) on Salsoul 12D-2001 numerically pre-dates Double Exposure' s "Ten Per Cent" (Salsoul 12D-2008), which I had always formerly assumed to be the first commercially released US 12" Both the ROULETTE and SALSOUL labels vied for early US 12" releases in 1976.

Edited February 24, 200718 yr by mel brat

Dave, when you say the first 12"....in the UK or in the USA? Playing at 45rpm or 33rpm? Because you could argue that 78s were the first 12"s But certainly in the UK, Herbie Hancock 'I thought it was you', Cheryl Lynn 'To be real', The Players 'Turn the music up' etc were amongst the first batch in the UK. I was working in HMV Oxford St and the Cheryl Lynn caused a bit of a stir...there were the reggae 12"s as well - all the Joe Gibb recordings with the woman bending over design on the label and the spindle on the deck sticking through her....jeans But I'm sure the Salsoul 12"s were some of the first on both side of the Atlantic. Jo

Sorry, but this is simply NOT correct. Cheryl Lynn was released in late 1978/early 1979 (I'll have to check). I was buying American 12" in 1976 (Double Exposure, Moment Of Truth, Gentlemen & Their Ladies etc.) on SALSOUL and ROULETTE and the first UK 12"s I remember seeing and buying were "Flowers" by the Emotions on CBS, also "Strawberry Letter 23" by Brothers Johnson (with a free poster!) both in EARLY 1977.

I always thought the first UK Soul 12" was Undisputed Truth " You + me = love "[Whitfield ] Anyone confirm ? Best ,Eddie

That is indeed possible...!

Do The Spanish Hustle:The Fatback Band 1975 polydor must be one of the earliest!.

I think that particular 12" release was a later issue. The 1975 date refers to the year the song was published.

Now I come to think of it....I had a T Connection on 12" too - so that's earlier than Cheryl Lynn. It's difficult getting my memory to stretch back that far Jo

The T-CONNECTION release was 1977. Definitely and absolutely.

I've never seen the Whirlwind 12", but I do have a Roulette 12" of Four Below Zero - 'My Baby's got E.S.P' c/w Gentlemen & their Lady - 'Like Her' from 1976

Also, from 1976 a promo Buddah 12" of Sins of Satan - 'Dance & Free you Mind'

Marboo is 1974

No, Marboo is NOT 1974, but early 1976 surely?

Edited February 24, 200718 yr by mel brat

I've never seen the Whirlwind 12", but I do have a Roulette 12" of Four Below Zero - 'My Baby's got E.S.P' c/w Gentlemen & their Lady - 'Like Her' from 1976

Also, from 1976 a promo Buddah 12" of Sins of Satan - 'Dance & Free you Mind'

Marboo is 1974

Marboo was late 1975/early 1976 and was played at Blackpool as a new release. However it often occured that the 12" was released some time AFTER the 7", in an attempt to catch belated disco exposure. There are many examples of this. Ian Levine was very quickly onto US 12" discs, bringing them directly back from his many visits to New York in mid-late 1976 and playing them at Blackpool Mecca.

I bought a 12" of Whirlwind's "Full Time Thing" from Neil Rushton C.November 1976, along with "Cathedrals" by D.C. Larue, which with Double Exposure (Salsoul) and Gentlemen & Their Ladies (Roulette), were some of the earliest 12"s to arrive in the UK I believe. Both Neil and Kev Roberts (who were both also travelling to and from New York at this time) sold 12" records at The Mecca, and also at Birmingham Locarno Alldayers. (I bought a Jobell Orchestra 12" from Kev at Blackpool in late 1976). I think they cost £2.50 or something though, which was quite expensive at the time, as the 7" release only cost about .80p, however the prestige value of owning these bizarre disco novelties was truly immense! Nonetheless, I still have them to this day...

Edited February 24, 200718 yr by mel brat

I found a 12" of The Moments "Nine Times" c/w Rimshots "Do What You Feel" on All Platinum at a record fair many years ago, which I don't ever recall seeing at the time (1976) - assuming it came out at the time of the 7" releases (a big assumption), that would make it very early indeed, or it may in fact have been a promotional item only.

There was a rumour that Candi Staton's "Young Hearts Run Free" was pressed on promo 12" - though whether that was a UK pressing is unclear - however, I have never seen a copy listed for sale.

moments was promo only,this really was one of the first u.k twelves, candi staton was a u.k promo in 76 i have one, its rare and sells for around £200

I have a feeling this one could run for ever and the answer has so many possible variations.....1st commercially available/promo/test pressing/US/UK ect..anyway there are some great examples here amongst the garbage .....lets add a few !

https://www.discomusic.com/records-index/

moments was promo only, this really was one of the first u.k twelves, candi staton was a u.k promo in 76 i have one, its rare and sells for around £200

Right... Nice to have the Candi Staton "rumour" confirmed after all these years too. You don't say if it's a UK pressing though?

Moments/Rimshots only cost £1, and I was absolutely certain I hadn't seen it in 1976/77, as both sides were Blackpool Mecca anthems and I'd have HAD to have one, naturally!

How many PROMO ONLY 12"s did UK Motown issue I wonder? I've mentioned two that I had (Supremes "Touch" and Originals "Down To Lovetown" long/short version). I still have the Originals 12", which would be after about October 1976 I guess, or whenever the 7" was released... I'm very surprised that Capitol didn't try out Tavares' "Don't Take Away The Music" on promo 12" also, given it's immense popularity in the clubs.

Polydor UK had several promo 12"s out in 1976/77, the concept perhaps instigated by Ian Levine with James Wells "Baby I'm Still The Same Man", several of which were given away at Blackpool I recall.

Edited February 25, 200718 yr by mel brat

If not THE first, certainly one of the 1st commercially released 12's was The Persuaders "Two Women" on Calla.

Neil

I have a feeling this one could run for ever and the answer has so many possible variations.....1st commercially available/promo/test pressing/US/UK ect..anyway there are some great examples here amongst the garbage .....lets add a few !

https://www.discomusic.com/records-index/

Odyessy

Native New Yorker (British 12")

If they can't even spell 'Odyssey' correctly, it doesn't inspire much confidence does it??

If not THE first, certainly one of the 1st commercially released 12's was The Persuaders "Two Women" on Calla.

Neil

Yes, I have that record. Great. 1976 certainly.

hi all

i think this may be an early commercial 12". Not exactly the pinical of soul but Frankie Valli - Swearin' to God - Private Stock. Its a 1975 recording but was probably released in 76 as the b side is from that year. I'm far too young to know when exactly it was released. I have this nagging thought that I have heard or seen this mentioned for some reason.

Cheers

Phil

I believe that was released in 1977/78, because of his increased popularity following the theme from "Grease"

Also, many older songs were reissued in 12" format at that time, as discos began to be seen by the record companies as a means of re-promoting their otherwise dormant back catalogue!

I'm pretty certain that there were NO UK 12" releases prior to 1976, and only a couple or so late in that year. The majority of UK companies RCA (TK/Solar), CBS/EPIC, WEA (WB/Elektra/Atlantic) ABC etc. only began issuing 12" in 1977.

Edited February 25, 200718 yr by mel brat

I believe that was released in 1977/78, because of his increased popularity following the theme from "Grease"

Also, many older songs were reissued in 12" format at that time, as discos began to be seen by the record companies as a means of re-promoting their otherwise dormant back catalogue!

I'm pretty certain that there were NO UK 12" releases prior to 1976, and only a couple or so late in that year. The majority of UK companies RCA (TK/Solar), CBS/EPIC, WEA (WB/Elektra/Atlantic) ABC etc. only began issuing 12" in 1977.

You could be right. Im not sure as i was only a kid at the time.

I checked on the disco website someone posted above. Below are two scans i borrowed. They mention on there site that there is a possibility that it is one of the first 12's and mentions that it was on a 10" promo but the scan of promo say's its a 12". Promo is also slightly longer.

Cheers

Phil

Or maybe... Love Saves The Day by Tim Lawrence which is a brilliant read, one of the best, probably THE best, music book I've read.

This book is a history of 'american dance culture 1970-1979'. The tale of Tom Moulton cutting a track onto 12" cos there were no sevens to use is in the book, it states that Bobby Moores 'call me your anything man' was the first 12" in June 1975.

or, Turn The Beat Around by Peter Shapiro which covers similar ground as LSTD but personally I don't think is as good.

Odyessy

Native New Yorker (British 12")

If they can't even spell 'Odyssey' correctly, it doesn't inspire much confidence does it??

Hee hee thats my mis spelling. I'm half dyslexic. I know what the other half is but can't spell that either

Right... Nice to have the Candi Staton "rumour" confirmed after all these years too. You don't say if it's a UK pressing though?

Moments/Rimshots only cost £1, and I was absolutely certain I hadn't seen it in 1976/77, as both sides were Blackpool Mecca anthems and I'd have HAD to have one, naturally!

How many PROMO ONLY 12"s did UK Motown issue I wonder? I've mentioned two that I had (Supremes "Touch" and Originals "Down To Lovetown" long/short version). I still have the Originals 12", which would be after about October 1976 I guess, or whenever the 7" was released... I'm very surprised that Capitol didn't try out Tavares' "Don't Take Away The Music" on promo 12" also, given it's immense popularity in the clubs.

Polydor UK had several promo 12"s out in 1976/77, the concept perhaps instigated by Ian Levine with James Wells "Baby I'm Still The Same Man", several of which were given away at Blackpool I recall.

Tavares

https://www.discomusic.com/records-more/8139_0_2_0_C/

Originals (US)

https://www.discomusic.com/records-more/651_0_2_0_C/

Promo (US)

https://www.discomusic.com/records-more/4281_0_2_0_C/

Candi Staton UK 12"

https://www.discomusic.com/records-more/3175_0_2_0_C/

First 12 I bought as a new release was Grace Jones "I Need A Man" (Beam Junction) '76 ?

Er.........shall I get my coat?

Cheers Paul

First 12 I bought as a new release was Grace Jones "I Need A Man" (Beam Junction) '76 ?

Er.........shall I get my coat?

Cheers Paul

Yeah, I remember that, with "Sorry" on the other side...

Edited February 25, 200718 yr by mel brat

Tavares

https://www.discomusic.com/records-more/8139_0_2_0_C/

Candi Staton UK 12"

https://www.discomusic.com/records-more/3175_0_2_0_C/

Thanks for those. The Candi Staton is above board no doubt, unsure whether Tavares is contemporary with UK album/7" release or later on though.

Originals "Down To Lovetown" 12" was issued commercially in the US, but not (on 12") in the UK - though it may have been re-issued at some stage...

Incidently, several of the early UK 12" had adapted LP labels, as can be seen by the scale and numbering system on some early Polydor and ABC releases.

Had a look at my own record listing and found the following UK releases;

JACKSONS - "Enjoy Yourself"/ "Style Of Life" (EPIC promo)

7" was C.March 1977. I think this came out on regular 12", but I can't be sure. (The B-Side is a great record in my opinion)

TRAMMPS - "Disco Inferno" (ATLANTIC) orig. issue April 1977, re-issued and charted in 1978.

ARCHIE BELL & DRELLS - "Everybody Have A Good Time" (PIR) was April 1977

JOHN DAVIS & MONSTER ORCH. - "Up Jumped The Devil" (POLYDOR Promo Only) - 7" was issued in May 1977.

EMOTIONS and BROTHERS JOHNSON releases were in fact June and July 1977

T-CONNECTION (June), PETER BROWN (June), GARNETT MIMMS on Arista was also in June.

Another demo only (I think) UK 12" I have is CAROL WOODS - "I'm In Wonderland" (RCA PB 5012) and interestingly it's another Ian Levine production(!) The 7" was a 1977 release.

Edited February 25, 200718 yr by mel brat

Hee hee thats my mis spelling. I'm half dyslexic. I know what the other half is but can't spell that either

Oh. Soyrr !

I seem to recall the first 12" I ever saw (and bought) was Undisputed Truth , You + Me= Love, on Whitfield. I seem to recall I had that before I bought T-Connection 1, Do what you wanna do, (TK) thats been previously mentioned. Mind you, this level of detail is easily confused in fast-receeding memory?

Anyone remeber how much these would have cost us in those days? I bet, taking into account inflation, its a lot more than the £5.99 or less you can pay now for new release stuff

Lofty

The early UK 12" singles were extremely limited, intended for DJ's, I used to rush to my local record shop to get the new releases, if you miss them that was it, you couldn't order them as they were rationed to chart return shops on week of release, it was a few years later that they really became commercial available to the general record buying public.

The early UK 12" singles were extremely limited, intended for DJ's, I used to rush to my local record shop to get the new releases, if you miss them that was it, you couldn't order them as they were rationed to chart return shops on week of release, it was a few years later that they really became commercial available to the general record buying public.

I was lucky, we had a chart return shop in our little town (Dursley), Gloucestershire, so I used to get all the UK ones

The early UK 12" singles were extremely limited, intended for DJ's, I used to rush to my local record shop to get the new releases, if you miss them that was it, you couldn't order them as they were rationed to chart return shops on week of release, it was a few years later that they really became commercial available to the general record buying public.

Yes, but there was a lot of hype involved. Almost every 12" released in the UK was supposed to be a "DJ Limited Edition" - but limited to about 12,000 pressings, and usually far more than that! (I doubt if most of the releases sold half that many in total!)

Very few of even the early ones were genuine "Limited Editions", and many of them were knocking around in record shops for many years afterwards! However, one or two DID turn out to be quite elusive. I completely missed Dee Dee Sharp Gamble's "Nobody can Ever Take Your Place" on PIR at the time (1977), and though I'm told it WAS released commercially, I never saw one until many years later. Despite this, I once owned virtually every half-decent UK 12" release issued during the first few years. In a lot of cases, they were only about the same price as the 7" issue, or about 10p more. About 70p mostly.

Edited February 27, 200718 yr by mel brat

Yes, but there was a lot of hype involved. Almost every 12" released in the UK was supposed to be a "DJ Limited Edition" - but limited to about 12,000 pressings, and usually far more than that! (I doubt if most of the releases sold half that many in total!)

Very few of even the early ones were genuine "Limited Editions", and many of them were knocking around in record shops for many years afterwards! However, one or two DID turn out to be quite elusive. I completely missed Dee Dee Sharp Gamble's "Nobody can Ever Take Your Place" on PIR at the time (1977), and though I'm told it WAS released commercially, I never saw one until many years later. Despite this, I once owned virtually every half-decent UK 12" release issued during the first few years. In a lot of cases, they were only about the same price as the 7" issue, or about 10p more. About 70p mostly.

Here's a Dee Dee promo. I've never seen an issue. Unfortunately the records previous owner stamped his name on the label

Here's a Dee Dee promo. I've never seen an issue. Unfortunately the records previous owner stamped his name on the label

Perhaps Dee Dee Sharp Gamble WAS 'demo only' then, as I'd have certainly bought it new had I seen one in 1977. The info that it was commercially issued came from a guy I know who worked in a record shop at the time, but he may have been wrong. They're certainly scarce though I bet, as I haven't seen many around! Brilliant record of course by one of Soul's true heroines.

Edited February 27, 200718 yr by mel brat

hmm thats wierd I thought I put a label scan in that posting...here it is then

Here's a Dee Dee promo. I've never seen an issue. Unfortunately the records previous owner stamped his name on the label

How long have you had it? how much? How many copies have you seen around? etc.

I bought this one for sick squid in Hanway Street some time in the last ten years.

It's dated '77 on the label and as you can see the release date is 28th of October so it's not really that early in 12" terms.

Something in the back of my mind tells me I've seen another one since, but then I often hear little voices telling me things, so that imformation isn't reliable.

The flip doesn't have the big 'A" on it.

I bought this one for sick squid in Hanway Street some time in the last ten years.

It's dated '77 on the label and as you can see the release date is 28th of October so it's not really that early in 12" terms.

Something in the back of my mind tells me I've seen another one since, but then I often hear little voices telling me things, so that imformation isn't reliable.

The flip doesn't have the big 'A" on it.

No it's not that early. Was just wondering how many there are around, as I haven't seen many myself. Mine was second hand and the sleeve has a few nasty creases.

(Wonder if you hear the same little voices as me?.... Do you see Leprechauns?)

Edited March 1, 200718 yr by mel brat

Here's a Dee Dee promo. I've never seen an issue. Unfortunately the records previous owner stamped his name on the label

I don't mind the stamps and names, all adds to the history of the record.

Funnily enuf Dave i'm exactly the same. I love the mystery of the journey a thirty or forty year old record takes. The vinyl and sleeve on this one is in near mint nick.

How long have you had it? how much? How many copies have you seen around? etc.

I've had a pic sleeve 12" for years and never noticed it was a Promo and now you mention it not seen many other copies

I've had a pic sleeve 12" for years and never noticed it was a Promo and now you mention it not seen many other copies

Messrs Lett, Haigh, Naylor & Wakelin all have one - so that's at least 4 on The Fylde Coast. Think they were all washed up just south of Cleveleys.

Hi All,

I'm new to this site and forum having stumbled upon it by accident. Let me say I am in awe of the collective knowledge on this forum and I will learn a lot. I particularly enjoyed the Philly thread. There are some serious anoraks out there, I thought i was the only one!!

As for the first 12 inch single I would like to add my 2p worth as I am a total anorak on the early history of the 12 inch. Yes it is a 2 part answer as the first promo 12 appeared many months before the first commercial 12 hit the shops. It is undisputed that the first commercial 12 was Double Exposure ten per cent (released April 1976 and beat Tavares "Heaven.." by a fortnight!) but the first promo 12 is the subject of much debate especially as after 32 years everyone's memory isn't that good anymore!

The first 12 inch was actually a 10 inch. "I'll be holding on" by Al Downing. Legend has it that Tom Moulton finished mixing it one Friday afternoon and wanted a few copies pressed to test in the clubs over the weekend. His engineer told him they had run out of 7 inch plates and only had 10 inch ones left. So they pressed it on that. Tom recalled it looked kind of silly as the first press took up so little room on the plate and he asked his engineer if he could make it bigger. His engineer, Jose Rodriguez spread the grooves out and adjusted the level to +6 and repressed it. When they played it back and heard how loud it sounded they were knocked out and thus the 12 inch single was born.

I believe an earlier poster mentioned there were around 20 commercial 12's from a year earlier, 1975. Not so, the true total of 12's from 1975 is 60-70 but none were commercial pressings, as that distinction belongs to Double Exposure, they were all promo's. I personally own around 60 promo 12's from 1975. Various records have been put forward in this thread but most informed opinion is that the white label version of "Swearin to God" by Frankie Valli (released July 1975) was the first promo 12 (not to be confused with the commercial press released on private stock records a year later in 1976). The rarest of these promo's is Free Man by South Shore Commission, the first 12 on the scepter/wand label. This was issued as an Acetate only and I would therefore guess that less than 10 copies of this were pressed. I have never seen one for sale and wouldn't like to speculate how much this cut is worth. The Calhoon is a very early 12 as well though.

The marboo track someone else mentioned is a red herring. Although it says 1974 on the label this was the year the track was recorded not the year the 12 was released. I have a 12 inch single with 1973 on the label that actually wasn't released until 1979!

The first Motown 12 was "Love Machine" by The Miracles from 1975. Very rare and collectable. Another very rare and collectable Motown 12 from 1975 is a favourite of mine "Don't walk away from Love" by David Ruffin.

Spanish Hustle was released as a promo 12 in 1975 (Polydor 006) and is rare. Beware the represses being passed off as 1975 originals and sold for big $$ on E-Bay!!

Atlantic brough out 7-8 12's in 1975, my favourite is "Keep Holding on" by Ace Spectrum (DSKO 60).....

The first Scepter promo (other than the Free Man acetate) was Secrets "baby Save Me". The Bobby Moore cut "call me" has a later catalogue number than Secrets (12405 v 11288).

The first UK 12 is also a tough one. There were a handful of promo UK 12's released in 1975, these are now very rare. The Ernie Bush track mentioned in an earlier post is one and others that spring to mind are "Supernatural thing" by Ben E King and "Hijack" by Herbie Mann. The Rimshots 12 was 1976 but again is pretty rare. Another is "When love is New" by Arthur Prysock a 1 sided promo on Polydor from 1976. A mate of mine once had around 15 copies of Candi Staton, he got them from Fred Dove who gave them away..!!!

"Don't take away the music" by Tavares did come out on promo 12, I have a copy. It is much rarer than the promo 12 of "Heaven..".

Another really early one is "Tornado" by The Wiz. This was released in late 1974/early 75 as an extended play 7 inch single on Atlantic (DSKO52) and I have a 12 inch Acetate copy from 1975. This could even pre date the Frankie Valli as there are probably only around half a dozen copies of this in existance if that many, and perhaps, because there were so few in existence, it may have slipped under the radar?

Hope this helps....

Karlos

Fantastic

Hi All,

I'm new to this site and forum having stumbled upon it by accident. Let me say I am in awe of the collective knowledge on this forum and I will learn a lot. I particularly enjoyed the Philly thread. There are some serious anoraks out there, I thought i was the only one!!

As for the first 12 inch single I would like to add my 2p worth as I am a total anorak on the early history of the 12 inch. Yes it is a 2 part answer as the first promo 12 appeared many months before the first commercial 12 hit the shops. It is undisputed that the first commercial 12 was Double Exposure ten per cent (released April 1976 and beat Tavares "Heaven.." by a fortnight!) but the first promo 12 is the subject of much debate especially as after 32 years everyone's memory isn't that good anymore!

The first 12 inch was actually a 10 inch. "I'll be holding on" by Al Downing. Legend has it that Tom Moulton finished mixing it one Friday afternoon and wanted a few copies pressed to test in the clubs over the weekend. His engineer told him they had run out of 7 inch plates and only had 10 inch ones left. So they pressed it on that. Tom recalled it looked kind of silly as the first press took up so little room on the plate and he asked his engineer if he could make it bigger. His engineer, Jose Rodriguez spread the grooves out and adjusted the level to +6 and repressed it. When they played it back and heard how loud it sounded they were knocked out and thus the 12 inch single was born.

I believe an earlier poster mentioned there were around 20 commercial 12's from a year earlier, 1975. Not so, the true total of 12's from 1975 is 60-70 but none were commercial pressings, as that distinction belongs to Double Exposure, they were all promo's. I personally own around 60 promo 12's from 1975. Various records have been put forward in this thread but most informed opinion is that the white label version of "Swearin to God" by Frankie Valli (released July 1975) was the first promo 12 (not to be confused with the commercial press released on private stock records a year later in 1976). The rarest of these promo's is Free Man by South Shore Commission, the first 12 on the scepter/wand label. This was issued as an Acetate only and I would therefore guess that less than 10 copies of this were pressed. I have never seen one for sale and wouldn't like to speculate how much this cut is worth. The Calhoon is a very early 12 as well though.

The marboo track someone else mentioned is a red herring. Although it says 1974 on the label this was the year the track was recorded not the year the 12 was released. I have a 12 inch single with 1973 on the label that actually wasn't released until 1979!

The first Motown 12 was "Love Machine" by The Miracles from 1975. Very rare and collectable. Another very rare and collectable Motown 12 from 1975 is a favourite of mine "Don't walk away from Love" by David Ruffin.

Spanish Hustle was released as a promo 12 in 1975 (Polydor 006) and is rare. Beware the represses being passed off as 1975 originals and sold for big $$ on E-Bay!!

Atlantic brough out 7-8 12's in 1975, my favourite is "Keep Holding on" by Ace Spectrum (DSKO 60).....

The first Scepter promo (other than the Free Man acetate) was Secrets "baby Save Me". The Bobby Moore cut "call me" has a later catalogue number than Secrets (12405 v 11288).

The first UK 12 is also a tough one. There were a handful of promo UK 12's released in 1975, these are now very rare. The Ernie Bush track mentioned in an earlier post is one and others that spring to mind are "Supernatural thing" by Ben E King and "Hijack" by Herbie Mann. The Rimshots 12 was 1976 but again is pretty rare. Another is "When love is New" by Arthur Prysock a 1 sided promo on Polydor from 1976. A mate of mine once had around 15 copies of Candi Staton, he got them from Fred Dove who gave them away..!!!

"Don't take away the music" by Tavares did come out on promo 12, I have a copy. It is much rarer than the promo 12 of "Heaven..".

Another really early one is "Tornado" by The Wiz. This was released in late 1974/early 75 as an extended play 7 inch single on Atlantic (DSKO52) and I have a 12 inch Acetate copy from 1975. This could even pre date the Frankie Valli as there are probably only around half a dozen copies of this in existance if that many, and perhaps, because there were so few in existence, it may have slipped under the radar?

Hope this helps....

Karlos

Hi Karlos ..... and thanks .

I had asked the question on one of the first posts on this subject ( the origins of the 12 " ) a while ago , as to what was the title of the record that Jose Rodriguez put on a 10" plate for Tom Moulton , but I did not know the title until now ....... " I'll Be Holding On " by Don Downing .

As Dave said in respect of your post , Fantastic !

Malc Burton

I can answer the question as to the first 12" promo in the UK. As a full time DJ at the time I was one of the lucky recipients of ... "Nine times" by the Moments. It was a one sided 12" with a 7" label on it. Yvonne Marvill at Phonogram was responsible. Boy did we complain, before that a couple of Schweppes crates full of 45s was all we needed . Because of our moaning, it was reserviced as a 45 the following week LOL.

Warners were quickly on the bandwagon after that, putting two A-sides by different artists back to back for DJ use (things like Jimmy Castor's "Bertha Butt Boogie"). As far as I recall it was them who released the first UK 12" - Undisputed Truth's "You plus me = love". The old memory's not what it was, but I'm pretty positive it was that one.

Steve

How long have you had it? how much? How many copies have you seen around? etc.

I have one,cant remember if demo or not

Hi All,

I'm new to this site and forum having stumbled upon it by accident. Let me say I am in awe of the collective knowledge on this forum and I will learn a lot. I particularly enjoyed the Philly thread. There are some serious anoraks out there, I thought i was the only one!!

As for the first 12 inch single I would like to add my 2p worth as I am a total anorak on the early history of the 12 inch. Yes it is a 2 part answer as the first promo 12 appeared many months before the first commercial 12 hit the shops. It is undisputed that the first commercial 12 was Double Exposure ten per cent (released April 1976 and beat Tavares "Heaven.." by a fortnight!) but the first promo 12 is the subject of much debate especially as after 32 years everyone's memory isn't that good anymore!

The first 12 inch was actually a 10 inch. "I'll be holding on" by Al Downing. Legend has it that Tom Moulton finished mixing it one Friday afternoon and wanted a few copies pressed to test in the clubs over the weekend. His engineer told him they had run out of 7 inch plates and only had 10 inch ones left. So they pressed it on that. Tom recalled it looked kind of silly as the first press took up so little room on the plate and he asked his engineer if he could make it bigger. His engineer, Jose Rodriguez spread the grooves out and adjusted the level to +6 and repressed it. When they played it back and heard how loud it sounded they were knocked out and thus the 12 inch single was born.

I believe an earlier poster mentioned there were around 20 commercial 12's from a year earlier, 1975. Not so, the true total of 12's from 1975 is 60-70 but none were commercial pressings, as that distinction belongs to Double Exposure, they were all promo's. I personally own around 60 promo 12's from 1975. Various records have been put forward in this thread but most informed opinion is that the white label version of "Swearin to God" by Frankie Valli (released July 1975) was the first promo 12 (not to be confused with the commercial press released on private stock records a year later in 1976). The rarest of these promo's is Free Man by South Shore Commission, the first 12 on the scepter/wand label. This was issued as an Acetate only and I would therefore guess that less than 10 copies of this were pressed. I have never seen one for sale and wouldn't like to speculate how much this cut is worth. The Calhoon is a very early 12 as well though.

The marboo track someone else mentioned is a red herring. Although it says 1974 on the label this was the year the track was recorded not the year the 12 was released. I have a 12 inch single with 1973 on the label that actually wasn't released until 1979!

The first Motown 12 was "Love Machine" by The Miracles from 1975. Very rare and collectable. Another very rare and collectable Motown 12 from 1975 is a favourite of mine "Don't walk away from Love" by David Ruffin.

Spanish Hustle was released as a promo 12 in 1975 (Polydor 006) and is rare. Beware the represses being passed off as 1975 originals and sold for big $$ on E-Bay!!

Atlantic brough out 7-8 12's in 1975, my favourite is "Keep Holding on" by Ace Spectrum (DSKO 60).....

The first Scepter promo (other than the Free Man acetate) was Secrets "baby Save Me". The Bobby Moore cut "call me" has a later catalogue number than Secrets (12405 v 11288).

The first UK 12 is also a tough one. There were a handful of promo UK 12's released in 1975, these are now very rare. The Ernie Bush track mentioned in an earlier post is one and others that spring to mind are "Supernatural thing" by Ben E King and "Hijack" by Herbie Mann. The Rimshots 12 was 1976 but again is pretty rare. Another is "When love is New" by Arthur Prysock a 1 sided promo on Polydor from 1976. A mate of mine once had around 15 copies of Candi Staton, he got them from Fred Dove who gave them away..!!!

"Don't take away the music" by Tavares did come out on promo 12, I have a copy. It is much rarer than the promo 12 of "Heaven..".

Another really early one is "Tornado" by The Wiz. This was released in late 1974/early 75 as an extended play 7 inch single on Atlantic (DSKO52) and I have a 12 inch Acetate copy from 1975. This could even pre date the Frankie Valli as there are probably only around half a dozen copies of this in existance if that many, and perhaps, because there were so few in existence, it may have slipped under the radar?

Hope this helps....

Karlos

Brilliant stuff Karlos ! The Tom Moulton/Al Downing story is documented elsewhere and what great story it is. I've always assumed the 10" version is the same as the 'Disco' version that came out on 45 ? If so, technically the first 12" is a 7" !

I can answer the question as to the first 12" promo in the UK. As a full time DJ at the time I was one of the lucky recipients of ... "Nine times" by the Moments. It was a one sided 12" with a 7" label on it. Yvonne Marvill at Phonogram was responsible. Boy did we complain, before that a couple of Schweppes crates full of 45s was all we needed . Because of our moaning, it was reserviced as a 45 the following week LOL.

Warners were quickly on the bandwagon after that, putting two A-sides by different artists back to back for DJ use (things like Jimmy Castor's "Bertha Butt Boogie"). As far as I recall it was them who released the first UK 12" - Undisputed Truth's "You plus me = love". The old memory's not what it was, but I'm pretty positive it was that one.

Steve

But my 12" of the Moments has the full length version of the Rimshots' "Do What You Feel" on the other side!(?)

It also sports the magnificent catalogue number of 'SOUL 001' !