Hello,

Of course I have my own idea of what it means and how the term makes sense to me. But, how about the history of the term. I'm sure it's been a topic before, but I would like to inquire. Anyone like to shed some light? Where and who were the first to use it. When did the "Fist of Faith" come in? I think it speaks for us all as DJ's, Dancers, and fans of Soul/Dance Culture.

What I get from it is "Don't loose faith in our culture" but rather "Keep the Faith".. Keep that faith that as Dancers and Listeners, what we do on the dancefloor is what we do and there is a serious sense of validation to our means and culture.

Its to be remember during those slow nights as DJ's, and for those slopes in the scene when people are wondering where it's all going, etc.. That's what it means to me.

? anyone?

peace,

J-

Don't know much about the 'Keep The Faith' slogan but it is used in all manner of contexts and is a fairly well known 'phrase' not exclusive to the soul scene. Fits well with what you said though.

The fist is obviously the 'right on' fist that black brothers in the sixties (late sixties?) used to show each other (remember the black runner, Jesse Owens i think was his name doing it at the Olympics in Germany?) something to do with 'black power' aint it?

"Keep the faith" was not a battle cry but it was certainly a phrase used by the African Americans when the seeds of the Civil Rights Movement where started in Jacksonville between 1940 and 1970.

The clenched fist is a very potent symbol that has historically been used to show unity when faced with diversity. The most aggressive of this type of hand gesture is the "two fingered salute", or "bowfinger", According to a popular belief in the UK, the vulgarity of the V sign comes from English longbowmen who, during the Hundred Years War, would have their index and middle fingers cut off by the French if captured in battle, due to the large numbers of French knights who were cut down by English arrows at battles such as Crcy and Agincourt. To show defiance before and during battle, they would display their two bow fingers to the French to show they were still able to shoot their bows.

The clenched fist is still used to this day by armoured units of the British Army.

The most enduring and famous use of a black man using a clenched fist is in one of The Top 10 Most Controversial Olympic Moments, see here

https://www.ishkur.com/sports/olympicmoments8.php

We all know the deeply rooted gospel, religious and singing culture so I won't bore you with that but needless to say a collision of the phrase "Keep the faith" combined with the clenched fist seamed natural, inevitable and very iconic.

Many moons ago in the days of patchwork jeans, David Cassidy, Brutt n feather cuts, to see "Whitey from Blighty" giving each other Ze Black fist (Ooh er not in the bang bang sexy time fun way) was not uncommon.

"Keep the faith" and fist as often as ya can!

Don't know much about the 'Keep The Faith' slogan but it is used in all manner of contexts and is a fairly well known 'phrase' not exclusive to the soul scene. Fits well with what you said though.

The fist is obviously the 'right on' fist that black brothers in the sixties (late sixties?) used to show each other (remember the black runner, Jesse Owens i think was his name doing it at the Olympics in Germany?) something to do with 'black power' aint it?

I think you are thinking of Tommie Smith and John Carlos at the 1968 olympics

The fist was taken up as a symbol of the Black Power movement popularised by Stokely Carmichael and others in the late 60s, it was more militant than the non-violent civil rights movement.

I think there was a long thead on this a while back.

Edited March 18, 200718 yr by Matt Male

Hi Soulboy74, I hope you don't mind if I kinda hijack your thread and ask a related question?

How many Northernsoul tunes are deffo "Civil Rights" driven or related?

Black Power - James Coit

Teddy vann - Theme from colored man

The Brilliant Korners - Three Lonely Guys

?

Hi Soulboy74, I hope you don't mind if I kinda hijack your thread and ask a related question?

How many Northernsoul tunes are deffo "Civil Rights" driven or related?

Black Power - James Coit

Teddy vann - Theme from colored man

The Brilliant Korners - Three Lonely Guys

?

Look ahead - Gordon Keith

How many Northernsoul tunes are deffo "Civil Rights" driven or related?

Hard Road to Hoe - Otis Lee

I think it's pretty hard, if not impossible, to separate the black struggle for equality in America from soul music. Many singers and artists were involved in the civil rights movement, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, Curtis Mayfield, Nina Simone, Bobby Womack etc.. the list is long.

Edited March 18, 200718 yr by Matt Male

Hi Soulboy74, I hope you don’t mind if I kinda hijack your thread and ask a related question?

How many Northernsoul tunes are deffo “Civil Rights” driven or related?

Black Power - James Coit

Teddy vann - Theme from colored man

The Brilliant Korners - Three Lonely Guys

?

James Coit deffo, not sure of the other 2. Colored man, was from a spoof comedy film about a black superhero, Three lonely guys is just three guys trying to hitch a ride! Can't see anything particularly political, or civil rights in the lyric.

More pertainant to civil rights movement is probably Towana and total destruction "Wear your natural baby" Made at a time when african-americans were going back to afro hairstyles as an expression of heritage.

Who remembers wearing the single black driving glove in the 70's?

Edited March 18, 200718 yr by Trevski

Hi Soulboy74, I hope you don't mind if I kinda hijack your thread and ask a related question?

How many Northernsoul tunes are deffo "Civil Rights" driven or related?

Black Power - James Coit

Teddy vann - Theme from colored man

The Brilliant Korners - Three Lonely Guys

?

Vitually all the Impressions earliest chart hits on ABC from 64-65 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

James Coit deffo, not sure of the other 2. Colored man, was from a spoof comedy film about a black superhero, Three lonely guys is just three guys trying to hitch a ride! Can't see anything particularly political, or civil rights in the lyric.

More pertainant to civil rights movement is probably Towana and total destruction "Wear your natural baby" Made at a time when african-americans were going back to afro hairstyles as an expression of heritage.

Who remembers wearing the single black driving glove in the 70's?

Wearing the one black driving glove ....... I'll put my right hand up ( sorry ) and admit doing so .

The wearing of the one glove was associated with the Black Panther movement in the U.S. at the start of the seventies . It still puzzles me why we in the U.K. took on this " fashion " statement .....

In respect of the Black Panthers , I was chided by my fellow passengers for taking - and reading - BP founder Bobby Seale's biography " Sieze The Time " on the bus on the way to The Torch .....

Malc Burton

Edited March 18, 200718 yr by Malc Burton

Hard Road to Hoe - Otis Lee

Interesting pic. As I wrongly had an eggy moosh a while back by calling it 'Hard road to hoe' ... When it's actually 'Hard row to hoe' ...

James Coit deffo, not sure of the other 2. Colored man, was from a spoof comedy film about a black superhero, Three lonely guys is just three guys trying to hitch a ride! Can't see anything particularly political, or civil rights in the lyric.

More pertainant to civil rights movement is probably Towana and total destruction "Wear your natural baby" Made at a time when african-americans were going back to afro hairstyles as an expression of heritage.

Who remembers wearing the single black driving glove in the 70's?

Isnt The Brilliant Corners About Vietnam ?

Emanuel Lasky - Welfare Cheese

george jackson - soledad brother. definitely required reading.

lord, lord, they cut george jackson down, lord, lord they laid him in the ground...

M

"Wade in the water" refers to the slaves crossing a river from a slave state to a free state. Well, according to Radio 4!

I've always thought the messages in the music were subtle, probably because the records would'nt sell or bad things would happen to you. People must have been aware of how Paul Robesen's career was smashed due to his politics.

A couple of records immediately spring to mind.

"Change is gonna come" Sam Cooke

"Freedom train" James Carr.

For the hard stuff, what about Gil Scott Heron "The revolution will not be televised" or the incredible Last Poets "When the revolution comes".

With regard to the clenched fist, no one has mentioned that it is the salute of the international anti-fascist movement, most prominant in the Spanish Civil War (1936 ish). I'm sure the Panthers were aware of this as were others who appropriated it from the same time, 1968 and all that.

Keep the faith, right on now

Alan

Hello,

Of course I have my own idea of what it means and how the term makes sense to me. But, how about the history of the term. I'm sure it's been a topic before, but I would like to inquire. Anyone like to shed some light? Where and who were the first to use it. When did the "Fist of Faith" come in? I think it speaks for us all as DJ's, Dancers, and fans of Soul/Dance Culture.

What I get from it is "Don't loose faith in our culture" but rather "Keep the Faith".. Keep that faith that as Dancers and Listeners, what we do on the dancefloor is what we do and there is a serious sense of validation to our means and culture.

Its to be remember during those slow nights as DJ's, and for those slopes in the scene when people are wondering where it's all going, etc.. That's what it means to me.

? anyone?

peace,

J-

Many of the folks involved in the civil rights movement of the sixties were brought up in the church and would be familiar with this verse from 1 Timothy. In some church circles, especially the Pentecostal and Charasmatic churches, it is still a popular phrase. the words "hold to the deep truths" are dropped in favour of the shortened phrase. KEEP THE FAITH. Its shortened version has been used by Christians for centuries.

this is the earliest

1 Timothy 3:9

They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience.

So, 'keep THE faith'

Interesting pic. As I wrongly had an eggy moosh a while back by calling it 'Hard road to hoe' ... When it's actually 'Hard row to hoe' ...

Yeah of course it is, silly me. Mind you it makes me wonder now what it is he's actually singing. Is he singing Row or Road, and does the that mean the lable might have been misprinted (happened all the time as we know)? Mind you 'row' and 'hoe' do rhyme i suppose...

As you say interesting.

What's an 'eggy moosh'?

Edited March 18, 200718 yr by Matt Male

I think you are thinking of Tommie Smith and John Carlos at the 1968 olympics

The fist was taken up as a symbol of the Black Power movement popularised by Stokely Carmichael and others in the late 60s, it was more militant than the non-violent civil rights movement.

I think there was a long thead on this a while back.

Yeah, that's the one, cheers Matt. Jesse owens was first black man to win it/race it then??? I know he did something special??

Interesting. I knew about the US origin, related to civil rights, as a few of my older friends still say "Righ On" with the Fist. I was more curious about how the Fist and the phrase were adopted onto the Northern scene.

aside from it all, great feedback, thanks.

as for own 'songs of rightiousness'

Curtis Mayfield - Move On Up

Ghetto Kitty - Stand up and be counted

just two that immediately come to mind as they are regular spins..

peace,

"Keep the Faith"!

"Change is gonna come" Sam Cooke

This REALLY is one of my alltime fav's, so emotional. BRILLIANT

Interesting. I knew about the US origin, related to civil rights, as a few of my older friends still say "Righ On" with the Fist. I was more curious about how the Fist and the phrase were adopted onto the Northern scene.

aside from it all, great feedback, thanks.

as for own 'songs of rightiousness'

Curtis Mayfield - Move On Up

Ghetto Kitty - Stand up and be counted

just two that immediately come to mind as they are regular spins..

peace,

"Keep the Faith"!

The phrases "Keep The Faith" and "Right On!" were adopted by the early Northern Soul scene because the late Dave Godin used them to sign off his column, which appeared every fortnight in Blues & Soul magazine. Simple really! The clenched fist is essentially a Socialist salute of freedom and solidarity, which was adopted by the civil rights movement and is still as valid today.

The expression "Do It With Soul" (remember the Poppies recording with that title?) came to mean far more than just music in 60s Black American palance, and was a way of saying do EVERYTHING to the very best of your ability whether on the streets, the dancefloor or in the bedroom! So I guess the Northern scene got SOME of it right!

Edited March 19, 200718 yr by mel brat

Yeah, that's the one, cheers Matt. Jesse owens was first black man to win it/race it then??? I know he did something special??

Jesse Owens is significant for winning several gold medals at the infamous Berlin Olympics in 1936 which Hitler had used as a propaganda device for his theories of the German/Aryan "master race";

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Owens

https://www.jesseowens.com/jobio2.html

"Jesse was the first American in the history of Olympic Track and Field to win four gold medals in a single Olympics...."

"In 1976, Jesse was awarded the highest honor a civilian of the United States can receive. President Gerald R. Ford awarded him the Medal of Freedom. Jesse overcame segregation, racism and bigotry to prove to the world that African-Americans belonged in the world of athletics"

Edited March 19, 200718 yr by mel brat

African American Politician Adam Clayton Powell used it as his slogan as he rose to become America's Second Black Congressman, in 1945. It was consequently adopted by the Civil Rights Movement.

I have the 45 (though not the LP) "Keep The Faith Baby" which is a recording of his famous "Keep the Faith" speech.

Sean Hampsey

African American Politician Adam Clayton Powell used it as his slogan as he rose to become America's Second Black Congressman, in 1945. It was consequently adopted by the Civil Rights Movement.

I have the 45 (though not the LP) "Keep The Faith Baby" which is a recording of his famous "Keep the Faith" speech.

Sean Hampsey

Thanks Sean.

How strange that a recording of (presumably) political speeches should end up as title for several collections of Northern Soul releases! (remember that trio of albums on JOY, C.1971/2?), though I suppose this illustrates the way the rhetoric of political struggle so readily entered the wider lexicon of Black America during those times.

Re. Dave Godin, he never claimed to having invented these terms of course, and frequently mentioned that he'd borrowed them initially from the American civil rights movement, only giving them wider currency via his writings on Soul music.

Thanks Sean.

How strange that a recording of (presumably) political speeches should end up as title for several collections of Northern Soul releases! (remember that trio of albums on JOY, C.1971/2?), though I suppose this illustrates the way the rhetoric of political struggle so readily entered the wider lexicon of Black America during those times.

Re. Dave Godin, he never claimed to having invented these terms of course, and frequently mentioned that he'd borrowed them initially from the American civil rights movement, only giving them wider currency via his writings on Soul music.

Superb feedback Gentleman. Thank you and "Right On"..

peace

JJ-