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Northern Soul 2007

Just wondering if Gwen Owens knows about this (or cares) - this is Just Say You're Wanted And Needed isn't it?

I'm just not sure there's a big enough market for this stuff. The purists won't touch it and it doesn't get enough exposure to crossover to the pop charts. I admire the guy for keep on trying but if it were me, I don't know...

Edited July 9, 200717 yr by Pete-S

I heard some of the album and thought it was great. The Angelo Starr track is awesome. Much stronger tunes than the Nicole Willis stuff and it definitely has better signing ! But then that got heavily slagged off too by the know all 'purists'.

As for Gwen Owens... duh ! Number one, she didn't write 'Just Say Your Wanted (And Needed)' , number two, it only has the drum sound and pattern, not the melody, and number three - has nobody honestly ever spotted what 'Just Say Your Wanted (And Needed)' is already a rewrite of anyway ??

I'm now trying to banish the though of Cookie in a porn film from my mind : (

Number one I never said she did write it, number two you can say what you like but it has the entire drum intro SAMPLED and recorded over the top of it, and number three, no I have no idea.

you have to respect his determination, but to avoid the "samey" feel to a lot of the tracks he should have drafted in another producer with a couple of different ideas and tempos, ("footsteps following me" wasnt a on the 4's bouncer) surely he has contacts stateside, --- paul riser or clay macmurray anyone??

quite agree with the vocalists though they are spot on

Number one I never said she did write it, number two you can say what you like but it has the entire drum intro SAMPLED and recorded over the top of it, and number three, no I have no idea.

Sampled? You don't have a clue do you mate ?

https://www.myspace.com/northernsoul2007

Northern Soul 2007

Just wondering if Gwen Owens knows about this (or cares) - this is Just Say You're Wanted And Needed isn't it?

As you say.. why should she care ?

Sampled? You don't have a clue do you mate ?

I defy anyone to listen to that and then claim it's not the original drum intro from Wanted And Needed.

Oh and something else "Poncho", brand new poster but 3 posts all on the same subject, what do you take us for?

I defy anyone to listen to that and then claim it's not the original drum intro from Wanted And Needed.

Oh and something else "Poncho", brand new poster but 3 posts all on the same subject, what do you take us for?

Edited July 10, 200717 yr by Poncho

And don't forget that many of his critics were completely fooled by The Four Vandals scam which proved that some people will only like a track if they think it's old, obscure, rare, exclusive or whatever.

Paul Mooney

They must have had their eyes and ears painted on.

They must have had their eyes and ears painted on.

But if you remove the stigma attached to it, it wasn't a bad record at all!

all levines videos look like badly shot porn...every track has exactly the same backing its all shite IMO

cookie

What'cha doin' watching "badly shot porn"??? ('specially when there's so much "well shot" porn around nowadays?)

Seriously, I'm hoping that some day someone will add 'proper', fully orchestrated backing tracks to some of Levine's recordings, as they sound rather unfinished to these old ears. It may happen, but this wouldn't be a possibilty if he hadn't gone out on a financial limb to record these singers in the first place. I'm sure he could make much more money with other projects if he wasn't such a fan.

However, at least he's recorded some great vocalists for posterity, USING HIS OWN MONEY, which is more attention than many of these singers get in their homeland, so give him due credit for that at least, huh?

Edited July 10, 200717 yr by mel brat

What'cha doin' watching "badly shot porn"??? ('specially when there's so much "well shot" porn around nowadays?)

C'mon Mel you must have an opinion on Levine's lastest project?

Derek

C'mon Mel you must have an opinion on Levine's lastest project?

Derek

I've given my opinion on ALL of Levine's projects. They need more work in my humble opinion, but who am I to over criticise Levine? What records have I produced that compare? I still enjoy listening to James Wells' "Baby I'm Still The Same Man" and Barbara Pennington's "Twenty Four Hours A Day", (which sounded very up-to-the-minute and contemporary in 1976!) but they had REAL instruments as far as I know, and I have to say that I've never been a big fan of drum machines et.al. on any Soul recordings. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think the overuse of studio technology does Soul singers proper justice somehow.

I've given my opinion on ALL of Levine's projects. They need more work in my humble opinion, but who am I to over criticise Levine? What records have I produced that compare? I still enjoy listening to James Wells' "Baby I'm Still The Same Man" and Barbara Pennington's "Twenty Four Hours A Day", (which sounded very up-to-the-minute and contemporary in 1976!) but they had REAL instruments as far as I know, and I have to say that I've never been a big fan of drum machines et.al. on any Soul recordings. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think the overuse of studio technology does Soul singers proper justice somehow.

You're right most modern productions are very sterile sounding. No depth or warmth to them. Funnily enough some of the house producers MAW / BASEMENT BOYS amongst others seem to overcome that pretty well.

IMO he really needs to employ a decent songwriter.

Derek

Levine knows the northern scene inside out, knows how fickle and impressionable many were/and still are hence he continues doing what he does.

He was a maverick in early 70s and good on him for having a go BUT this isn't for me.

Only track I like that he has produced/arranged/sorted was Velvelettes cover of the Blossoms "Thats When The Tears Start" BUT why oh why does he go for elongated intros all the time - c'mon, stylus on, drum roll, lets get into it like....NOW! not waiting for the 134k seconds of electronic/computerised BPM to finish b4 we get vocals.

OK rant over and yessssssssss Frances Nero's was decent too

Had a listen to it.... have to agree with Pete that intro is Gwen Owens no doubt about it. The track and Album itself is not my cup of tea, its aimed purely for the "normal market" and those that perhaps were once into northern and see it on the shelf at tescos and buy it, giving the impression that this is what constitutes as northern soul now in 2007. Yet another don't always believe what you read rip off. Some bloody good vocalists on there warbling away, but as usual as in all IL productions it has that dodgy backbeat that takes over all his tracks and is brain numbingley totally offensive to those vocalists and indeed the listener. No doubt it will be played out an awful lot in the clubs that Ian goes to down there in the capitol and i am sure the boys and girls in bling will love it.

Ee by gum I know what I like and I like what I know.

But I don't know much.

But I like Black Pudding Bertha shes the queen of northern soul.

IMO he really needs to employ a decent songwriter....

Derek

Ian's worked with some VERY decent songwriters - Ronnie McNeir and Billy Griffin to name two - but he upset both of 'em. (As usual!)

Edited July 11, 200717 yr by mel brat

Levine knows the northern scene inside out, knows how fickle and impressionable many were/and still are hence he continues doing what he does.

He was a maverick in early 70s and good on him for having a go BUT this isn't for me.

Only track I like that he has produced/arranged/sorted was Velvelettes cover of the Blossoms "Thats When The Tears Start" BUT why oh why does he go for elongated intros all the time - c'mon, stylus on, drum roll, lets get into it like....NOW! not waiting for the 134k seconds of electronic/computerised BPM to finish b4 we get vocals.

OK rant over and yessssssssss Frances Nero's was decent too

For you,footsteps.mp3

For you,footsteps.mp3

Beggin`make this look very plain indeed,whatever version.

PRODUCTION...............PRODUCTION.........................PRODUCTION

KARIOKI NORTHERN STOMPERS!

A FORMULA NOT FOR ME TO BE INTRESTED IN !

ITS A TACKY AND OVER PRODUCED MODERN TAKE ON THE CLASSIC 6TS SOUL UPTEMPO BEAT! .............IMO

IF HE IS THAT WELL OFF AND KNOWLEGABLE ............WHY IS IT STILL COMPLETE AND TOTAL SHIT?......................IMO

BRING BACK MIRWOOD RECORDS IMO

HE MANAGED TO GET SOME FANTASTIC VOCALS AND MELODY THEN WENT ON TO SUBJECT THEM TO THE WORST TYPE OF PLASTIC PRODUCTION IN LIVING MEMORY!

DEXYS MIDNIGHT RUNNERS HAD MORE TEXTURE THAN THIS SHIT! .........................................IMO

A LEAST DEAN PARRISH EDDIE PILLER, AND PAUL WELLER HAD THE VERY BEST OF INTENTIONS LAST YEAR WITH "LEFT RIGHT AND CENTRE"..............................................."NORTHERN SOUL MONSTERS 07"...............................BRING ME A NEW PAIR OF Y FRONTS!

I AM ONLY 14

WHY TRY AND PRODUCE SOMTHING THAT COULD NEVER BE IMPROVED UPON?................ SUICIDE IMO

Edited July 11, 200717 yr by mossy

Well I don't know what to think, I quite like a lot of these tracks but there is a certain familiarity about them, whether it's the fact that some are based on original records (I heard the van dykes, chuck wood and holly st james for a start) or the fact that a lot of the track sound similar. But what I would say, if Ian could get the sort of sound that they (Timmion records) got on that Nicole Willis record 'If this ain't love I don't know what is' then I think he would have a lot of success because that record (nicole willis) sounds like it was recorded in the 60's. Ian's stuff sounds contemporary because of the way that technology is today. Using those facilities you're never going to get that live drum sound we know from our 60's records.

SO WHY BOTHER?

It must be really heartwarming for someone to spend 6 months or a year of their life trying to create something that people can enjoy and then see it ripped to shreds in the blink of an eye. I can never figure out why a lot of people show so much hatred and venom towards the producer in question when a simple 'I don't like it' would be ample. I agree with many of the points made but why so nasty?

p.s. I'm sure Ian will get the last laugh - one of these will go global and sell millions, another will be a northern monster, it's happened before, it'll happen again

YUP...................I hope he does get a hit...................and i also hope the spice girls have one too!

BOTH PRODUCTS HAVE THE SAME THING IN COMMON WITH THE SOUL SCENE IMO........................................NOWT

ITS JUST PRODUCED POP MUSIC IMO..................................................???????????????????????

AND I LIKE AUTHENTIC 6Ts SOUL!

Edited July 11, 200717 yr by mossy

But if you remove the stigma attached to it, it wasn't a bad record at all!

Seriously, I'm hoping that some day someone will add 'proper', fully orchestrated backing tracks to some of Levine's recordings, as they sound rather unfinished to these old ears. It may happen, but this wouldn't be a possibilty if he hadn't gone out on a financial limb to record these singers in the first place. I'm sure he could make much more money with other projects if he wasn't such a fan.

However, at least he's recorded some great vocalists for posterity, USING HIS OWN MONEY, which is more attention than many of these singers get in their homeland, so give him due credit for that at least, huh?

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.............your starting to make me feel bad.......................................NO,JUST LISTNED TO IT AGAIN , IT IS REAL CRAP

WHAT LP ARE WE REVIEWING NEXT WEEK?

I WONT EVEN PLAY THAT "STRANGE WORLD OF NORTHERN SOUL" VIDEO TO MY BOYS (AS I WOULD GET EMBARRESSED AND THEY WOULD THINK NORTHERN SOUL WAS TOTAL SHIT)

PRODUCTION.....................................PRODUCTION.......................

........PRODUCTION.............................

"THATS THE STRANGE WORLD OF NORTHERN SOUL"

ITS ALL ABOUT AUTHENTIC QUALITY ORIGINAL 6TS TUNES FOR ME....................................

I will never forget buying that tape at the motorway sevices after spotting it had "linda griner" - "goodbye cruel world" on it......then discovering it was a disco version....................re - recorded by ................yup, you got it!

I WILL NOT FORGIVE!!!!!! OR FORGET!!!!

Keep away...............whats next, house versions of BIG DADDY ROGERS ????????????????????

Edited July 11, 200717 yr by mossy

I heard some of the album and thought it was great. The Angelo Starr track is awesome. Much stronger tunes than the Nicole Willis stuff and it definitely has better signing ! But then that got heavily slagged off too by the know all 'purists'.

As for Gwen Owens... duh ! Number one, she didn't write 'Just Say Your Wanted (And Needed)' , number two, it only has the drum sound and pattern, not the melody, and number three - has nobody honestly ever spotted what 'Just Say Your Wanted (And Needed)' is already a rewrite of anyway ??

I'm now trying to banish the though of Cookie in a porn film from my mind : (

Hello Poncho & welcome to the site.

Always good if new members introduce themselves to everybody so it gives us a bit of an idea who we are talking to.

Click on the link below for the intro thread.

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.php?showforum=44

Mart...

yeh good idea i've done it now. looking forward to seeing who else is on in here

i like that disco track called "fall down" you have in your post although its about six minutes too long and could do with a melody

Edited July 11, 200717 yr by Poncho

Ian's worked with some VERY decent songwriters - Ronnie McNeir and Billy Griffin to name two - but he upset both of 'em. (As usual!)

G C Cameron didn't speak too well of him either.

Derek

I WONT EVEN PLAY THAT "STRANGE WORLD OF NORTHERN SOUL" VIDEO TO MY BOYS (AS I WOULD GET EMBARRESSED AND THEY WOULD THINK NORTHERN SOUL WAS TOTAL SHIT)

PRODUCTION.....................................PRODUCTION.......................

........PRODUCTION.............................

"THATS THE STRANGE WORLD OF NORTHERN SOUL"

ITS ALL ABOUT AUTHENTIC QUALITY ORIGINAL 6TS TUNES FOR ME....................................

I will never forget buying that tape at the motorway sevices after spotting it had "linda griner" - "goodbye cruel world" on it......then discovering it was a disco version....................re - recorded by ................yup, you got it!

I WILL NOT FORGIVE!!!!!! OR FORGET!!!!

Keep away...............whats next, house versions of BIG DADDY ROGERS ????????????????????

Change the record Mossy, yes we get it, you don't like it

Edited July 11, 200717 yr by Pete-S

G C Cameron didn't speak too well of him either.

Derek

didnt levine do a lot of work with edwin star and pat lewis? they must have thought it was ok or they wouldn't have done so much.

I saw Paul Young on the televised concert for Mandela (early 90's) sing 'grazin in the grass' live with a great band

and went out and bought the album 'Reflections' this had 15 classic soul tracks and was produced by IL. This was well

before Michael McDonald did it.

It's not a recreation of 60's Motown but a homage to it IMHO. I like it.

didnt levine do a lot of work with edwin star and pat lewis? they must have thought it was ok or they wouldn't have done so much.

that went down well didn't it?

didnt levine do a lot of work with edwin star and pat lewis? they must have thought it was ok or they wouldn't have done so much.

-You assume they thought it was ok or you know it to be a fact?

Derek

-You assume they thought it was ok or you know it to be a fact?

Derek

Well Pat Lewis is still very pally with Ian, unfortunately Edwin is dead

Well Pat Lewis is still very pally with Ian, unfortunately Edwin is dead

Err i know Edwin is dead.

was there anyone who worked more with levine than edwin star or pat lewis ?

unless pete smith is saying that edwin star was a fool and that pat lewis is a fool ?

was there anyone who worked more with levine than edwin star or pat lewis ?

unless pete smith is saying that edwin star was a fool and that pat lewis is a fool ?

Do one you tiresome idiot

was there anyone who worked more with levine than edwin star or pat lewis ?

I think you'll find that Billy Griffin worked most with Levine he co wrote quite a few songs for pop artists

taken from his website:-

After leaving the Miracles in the early 1980's Billy went on to record three solo albums for Columbia Records (now Sony Entertainment), establishing himself as an international star in London. With the success of the English top twenty hit "Hold Me Tighter In The Rain" Billy earned the English "Silver Record Award" comparable to the coveted Gold Record here in the United States. In 1990, Billy co-produced fifty-two Motown artists along with English producer Ian Levine in response to an overwhelming outcry from Motown fans across the globe to revisit the days of their childhood (the 60's and 70's). Their collaborative work in a "reunion" series of videos, LPs and CDs featuring The Originals, The Fantastic 4, Lamont Dozier, Edwin Starr and The Supremes for the European dance market was a historic event unlikely to ever be repeated again. This partnership later resulted in Ian & Billy's coming together to produce the "boy band" Take That and score the group's first worldwide hit "I Found Heaven" sung by Superstar, then lead singer, Robbie Williams written by Billy & Ian. Later that year the duo hit pay dirt again with their production of The Pasadena's Silver Record "I'm Doing Fine Now."

Derek

Right as the topic starter I reserve the right to close the topic if it's sole purpose is for some Levine hanger-on to use it to make comments about me, if it were funny I wouldn't mind but this Poncho person is just so transparent that it's embarassing so tough sh*t

Worth reopening on the offchance there might be some discussion?

About 398 copies too many

Derek

Why do you say that?

Why do you say that?

Pretty shabby product compared to others on the market IMO.

Derek

Some seem to forget how well his productions were received at venues across the land in 1975/6.

'reaching for the best' was massive, as were 'weakspot', 'domesday' & 'your magic put a spell on me'.

I'm sure those artists were chuffed to bits. I for one will always be grateful for his golden era discoveries.

I never understood the disco/jazz funk era of the mecca, but the names curtis & levine will live on in NS folk memory, no doubt about that. this has already been said, hasn't it? oh' well...

Some seem to forget how well his productions were received at venues across the land in 1975/6.

'reaching for the best' was massive, as were 'weakspot', 'domesday' & 'your magic put a spell on me'.

I'm sure those artists were chuffed to bits. I for one will always be grateful for his golden era discoveries.

I never understood the disco/jazz funk era of the mecca, but the names curtis & levine will live on in NS folk memory, no doubt about that. this has already been said, hasn't it? oh' well...

It's not a case of forgetting Macca . Many if not most people on the scene now (me included) were not on the scene then. I started on the scene 1982/3.

The Mecca's influence carrys on till this day, but through the many great 60/70's records they found and played and not Levine's productions.

If you were to list the key tracks of that time surely those tracks you mention would not be top of the list?

Curtis remains even now a hugely influential Dj albeit on the modern soul scene.

Derek

yeah, I understand what you're saying derek. I just wanted to say that his own stuff was well received at the time. my own personal taste, which I referred to as 'golden era discoveries', would be the 60's and early 70's stuff he was unveiling for the first time up to about 1974/5.

Edited July 11, 200717 yr by macca

Many if not most people on the scene now (me included) were not on the scene then. I started on the scene 1982/3.

Derek

Hi Derek,

That may be the case on the all nighter scene, but not on the scene in general.

I started around 1970 with The Human Beinz, A Quitter Never Wins, Next in Line, The Tams, Bobby Hebb all massive. The Burnley scene has loads of people still on it, from 70 to 76, who are still on it, including many who didn't take the break.

I also have a tape from the Mecca from 74 that Pete Smith and Fluff kindly put onto CD for me. The track listing is awesome.

Levine was a clumsy DJ, but his track record was phenomenal.

Poncho, you are missing the point of Soul Source. Irony and sarcasm is fine, and is a big part of SS, but all the time?

Some seem to forget how well his productions were received at venues across the land in 1975/6.

'reaching for the best' was massive, as were 'weakspot', 'domesday' & 'your magic put a spell on me'.

I'm sure those artists were chuffed to bits. I for one will always be grateful for his golden era discoveries.

I never understood the disco/jazz funk era of the mecca, but the names curtis & levine will live on in NS folk memory, no doubt about that. this has already been said, hasn't it? oh' well...

Hmmm... I'm not too sure about everything you say. My heart sank when I first heard the very first production for the Exciters' ("Love You Baby") at Blackpool in 1975 (I remember it well). I mean, what was the point of re-recording that old chestnut? Not only was it a pale imitation of the Eddie Parker classic, but even the E.Parker original was well and truly played out by then - Plus the Mecca was in the very process of moving on from the "traditional" Northen venue status at that time. I saw the choice of that particular song as rather predictable and tiresome.

"Reaching For The Best" wasn't as bad, as it was an entirely new song, but I think Levine was struggling to create a "new" Northern feel with the early productions encompassing both 60s values (ie. uptempo rhythms coupled with exaggerated soulful vocals ala. James Wells) and the newer dance rhythms emerging from New York and Philadelphia, in the hope that at least some of his recordings would "cross over" into the mainstream pop charts, which is of course what eventually happened with "Reaching.." and several others.

In my view, in his boundless enthusiasm perhaps Ian recorded TOO MANY songs (certainly with the Motorcity project) when it may have been better to await quality songs to emerge and spend more time/money on each individual production. As I said, James Wells' "Baby I'm Still The Same Man" and Barbara Pennington's "Twenty Four Hours A Day" for example sounded like they could have been newly recorded in America when first aired, but many subsequent releases left me fairly cold being TOO obviously aimed at the Northern market.

Carol Woods "I'm In Wonderland" (picked up by RCA) brings back certain fond memories, but only as far as it reminds me of a particular time and place. It too however sounded fairly contemporary in 1977, though with that particular "Northern Soul" edge.

The fact that Levine can/could produce contemporary "American" sounding recordings is borne out by the Danny Cresden (Leake) acetate that curiously remained unreleased, though I'd have snapped it up given the chance to actually buy it!

Another unreleased Levine acetate that Neil Rushton once had in his possession was called "Come On Experience". Blackpool Mecca through and through, it had all the exciting attributes of contemporary American Jazz-Funk/Disco items with a fantastic rhythm. (Sam gave it a few spins at the Birmingham Locarno 'Modern' allnighters C.1982) I loved it to bits, but how much actual input Ian Levine had in the songwriting and production is unknown to me.

It would appear from this that the bulk of Levine's productions are aimed at buyers other than myself and that he's still attempting to straddle the Northern Soul of his youth with the demands of the contemporary market and not always hitting the mark. It may be better if he abandoned the "tailor made" Northern Soul references altogether, and as someone on here observed, go the route taken by Frank Popp! He may well then have a "Northern smash" by default and the overall music would be the better for it in my view.

Edited July 12, 200717 yr by mel brat

Worth reopening on the offchance there might be some discussion?

I've only managed to give it a brief listen Pete before I left home on Sunday - no sound cards on at work. On their own, the records I heard weren't unpleasant. You hear worse in many RnB rooms. And actually, there were some decent singers on there - and a couple of not too bad songs. However.

Not my cup of tea - and there's a lot better new release stuff out there.

Simply, it all got a bit samey after 3 or 4 tracks. I know he's trying to relate it to what is supposed to be 'traditional' on the fours Northern, but for me, a few of a different tempo would maybe have balanced things out. . A miss I'm afraid.

Had an mp3 of a track I lost I think Levine have put organs or someth. to?? I can´t help this feeling

or someth. like that. abs brill anyone that can provide with an mp3 ?? They play it in the strange world video if thats a clue