Have just looked at the Grapevine 2000 list of 7" releases.

I was surprised at how many of these have been deleted (and one withdrawn) - many of them are top-drawer records (on US originals).

DELETED G2K 45-136 THE SERVICEMEN I'll Stop Loving You

Sweet Magic

DELETED G2K 45-135 CYNTHIA SHEELER

NORMA JEAN I'll Cry Over You

I've Taken Over

DELETED G2K 45-134 THE CHESTERFIELDS

THE M.R.S. BAND Think It Over

Why Did You Leave Me Baby

DELETED G2K 45-133 MATT BROWN Everyday (I Love You Just A Little Bit More)

Baby I'm A Want You

WITHDRAWN G2K 45-132 PERCY STONE & THE EXPLOSIONS Chained

DELETED G2K 45-131 RON HENDERSON & CHOICE OF COLOUR Gemini Lady

Goodbye My Love

DELETED G2K 45-130 THE MAGNETICS When I'm With My Baby

Count The Days

DELETED G2K 45-129 L.V. JOHNSON Trying To Hold On

I Love You, I Want You, I Need You

DELETED G2K 45-128 WILLIE TEE I'm Having So Much Fun

First Taste Of Hurt

DELETED G2K 45-127 C.P. LOVE Trick Bag

Plenty Of Room For More

DELETED G2K 45-126 EDDIE BILLUPS Ask My Heart

A Soldier's Prayer

DELETED G2K 45-125 THE CARBON COPIES Just Don't Love You

Baby I'm Coming Home

DELETED G2K 45-124 MELVIN BROWN & JAMES MATTHEWS Love Stormy Weather

Soul Man

DELETED G2K 45-123 THE JONES BROTHERS featuring Joe Jones Good Old Days

Lucky Lady

DELETED G2K 45-122 THE FOUR DYNAMICS Things That A Lady Ain't Supposed To Do

That's What Girls Are Made For

DELETED G2K 45-121 THE SPRINGERS Nothing's Too Good For My Baby

I Can't Believe

DELETED G2K 45-120 DON GARDNER Cheatin' Kind

Is This Really Love

DELETED G2K 45-119 THE MAGNETICS I'll Keep Holding On / Jackie Baby (Can You Do It)

DELETED G2K 45-118 SWISS MOVEMENT I Wish Our Love Would Last Forever

One In A Million

DELETED G2K 45-117 BILL CODAY

SANDRA WRIGHT A Man Can't Be A Man (Without A Woman)

DELETED G2K 45-116 THE SERVICEMEN Are You Angry

I Need A Helping Hand

DELETED G2K 45-115 ARCHIE HODGE I Really Want To See You Girl

If I Didn't Need You Woman

DELETED G2K 45-114 THE MONTCLAIRS Hey You! Don't Fight It!

Never Ending Love

DELETED G2K 45-113 SEX It's You (Baby It's You)

It's You (Baby It's You) (Extended Version)

DELETED G2K 45-112 NATHAN WILLIAMS What Price

Reaching Higher

DELETED G2K 45-111 FORTSON & SCOTT

ROBBY FORTSON Sweet Lover

Are You For Real

DELETED G2K 45-110 ERNEST BAKER Alone Again

Do It With The Feeling

DELETED G2K 45-109 GEORGE HOBSON Let It Be Real

A Place In My Heart

DELETED G2K 45-108 LITTLE HANK Try To Understand

Mr. Bang Bang Man

DELETED G2K 45-107 MATT BROWN Thank You Baby

Sweet Thing

DELETED G2K 45-106 TAVASCO Love Is Trying To Get A Hold On Me (Radio Edit)

Love Is Trying To Get A Hold On Me

DELETED G2K 45-105 TRUE IMAGE I'm Not Over You

I'm Not Over You (Extended Version)

DELETED G2K 45-104 THE MAGNETICS That Look On Your Face

You Were Made For Love

DELETED G2K 45-103 BOBBY WAYNE Long Hard Road

Do I Love You (Indeed I Do)

DELETED G2K 45-102 CHOICE OF COLOUR Your Love

Love Is Gone

DELETED G2K 45-101 ELECTRIC EXPRESS Hearsay

Hearsay (Instrumental)

I wonder what sort of value these are going to have in future years?

Brian

and some damned fine tunes in there for sure.

and some damned fine tunes in there for sure.

link

Amazing stuff, I resisted buying them for along while, which I now consider to be a slightly foolish decision, so many quality tracks. Think I will be actively picking them up from now on.

Recent release......Dottie Pearson...Bring it over baby....#152 is one of the best tracks I've heard for ages

Amazing stuff, I resisted buying them for along while, which I now consider to be a slightly foolish decision, so many quality tracks.  Think I will be actively picking them up from now on.

Recent release......Dottie Pearson...Bring it over baby....#152 is one of the best tracks I've heard for ages

link

I've managed to get every one on demo. Made a conscious decision to do this as I have every one of the original 70s Grapevine collection on demo. They look pretty good together.

However it's something of a treadmill - a bit like using the same numbers on the lottery each week - you have to keep on doing it, cause if you miss one out Sod's Law says that's gonna be the big one!

Brian

WITHDRAWN G2K 45-132 PERCY STONE & THE EXPLOSIONS Chained

I heard there are not many copies of this, i was fortunate enough to bag one, believe it was some contractual reason as to why it was withdrawn, mighty fine tune though.

I know it is a very contentous issue but i believe all the Grapevine stuff is released legally, so in effect this really does make these tracks UK issues, and not unlike the Stateside, Pye, Sue stuff of years gone by.......doesn't it...albeit many years later...uummmmmm.

Havent collected the singles but just wanted to say the albums are superb, Richard Caiton, Peachtree story, Johnny Moore, Reflection Sound story and America's most wanted vol 1 are out of this world.Standouts are Ron Hendersons I'll be around and Emory and the Dynamics Things that a lady ain't supposed to do.

Nice.

I know it is a very contentous issue but i believe all the Grapevine stuff is released legally, so in effect this really does make these tracks UK issues, and not unlike the Stateside, Pye, Sue stuff of years gone by.......doesn't it...albeit many years later...uummmmmm.

link

Absolutely right - also mainly first time out in the Uk too.

As Steve says most of these are UK originals.

Now...............should these be played at soul nights, or would you walk out in disgust??

Brian

As Steve says most of these are UK originals.

Now...............should these be played at soul nights, or would you walk out in disgust??

Brian

link

Brian, excellent point, if someone was to play Ruby Winters on Stateside then no problem, but i must admit if someone played Melvin Brown/James Matthews on Grapevine 2000, then i may have a problem with that......(look before i get the CD/Bootleg brigade breathing down my neck, i just think that when a record is re-released a good 30 + years later then it really does'nt qualify.......does it )

I have no problem whatsoever with any DJ playing a Grapevine 45, they are legal and no different to any other legit UK issue. Please let's not go down this road and cause even more grief for ourselves :angry: The latest Prince Phillip Mitchell CD is blinding by the way!

I have no problem whatsoever with any DJ playing a Grapevine 45, they are legal and no different to any other legit UK issue. Please let's not go down this road and cause even more grief for ourselves :angry: The latest Prince Phillip Mitchell CD is blinding by the way!

link

Yeah Big O in hindsite your right, but if Soul Sam was on after you would you play a copy of Loves Stormy Weather on G2000......I know i wouldn't.

As Steve says most of these are UK originals.

Now...............should these be played at soul nights, or would you walk out in disgust??

Brian

link

Why the F**K would anyone play a Grapevine 2000 (except for the unissued ones of course) at a serious rare soul night?? Legit or not. These are re-issues. I would never attend an allnighter or soul night, where they played these together with the real US originals. IMO of course. No need for anyone to get all upset and stuff

Keep it real!

Cheers,

Christian B

PS! Who would like to also say that I love Grapevine and all their releases. Quality soul! Still no need for people to pretend that they are hot-shot rare soul DJ's and play re-issues.

Edited February 21, 200520 yr by cC B

Why the F**K would anyone play a Grapevine 2000 (except for the unissued ones of course) at a serious rare soul night?? Legit or not. These are re-issues. I would never attend an allnighter or soul night, where they played these together with the real US originals. IMO of course. No need for anyone to get all upset and stuff 

Keep it real!

Cheers,

Christian B

PS! Who would like to also say that I love Grapevine and all their releases. Quality soul! Still no need for people to pretend that they are hot-shot rare soul DJ's and play re-issues.

link

Which of the Grapevine 2000 releases are re-releases?

Ask Sam to play 'Things a lady ain't supposed to do' and look what he plays it on.

So is it OK for 'big name' DJs to play the odd Grapevine 2000 release, but not for lesser known DJs?

I don't think anyone in their right mind would 'pretend to be a hot-shot rare DJ' and play a full set of Grapevine 2000 singles (although you could put one hell of a set together from them).

I simply asked the original question in the light of the controversy about playing original records (as opposed to boots, acetates and CDs) and wondering where Grapevine 2000 fits in.

I think Brett made a very good point about records being 30+ years old (aren't they all?) - but all of this very much treads a distinctly fine-line.

Keep it real - well is it real or not?

Brian

Edited February 22, 200520 yr by Brian Ellis

Which of the Grapevine 2000 releases are re-releases?

Ask Sam to play 'Things a lady ain't supposed to do' and look what he plays it on.

So is it OK for 'big name' DJs to play the odd Grapevine 2000 release, but not for lesser known DJs?

I don't think anyone in their right mind would 'pretend to be a hot-shot rare DJ' and play a full set of Grapevine 2000 singles (although you could put one hell of a set together from them).

I simply asked the original question in the light of the controversy about playing original records (as opposed to boots, acetates and CDs) and wondering where Grapevine 2000 fits in.

I think Brett made a very good point about records being 30+ years old (aren't they all?) - but all of this very much treads a distinctly fine-line.

Keep it real - well is it real or not?

Brian

link

This topic really interests me Brian, i have also wondered where recently released uk(legal) versions of records from way back fit into the dj's rosta. Like my earlier point, which i'll clarify fully now ; If for instance someone played Ruby Winters "Better" on Stateside, ahead of me but i have it on Diamond, then no problem (after all it's a little bit harder on English, and i haven't got that release ), i know this is all a bit nit-picking but following from the CD/Originals post i feel certain that different views will surface with equally valid arguments. A good example for me would be "Wee Willie Walker" on the recent 25th anniversary 7" from Kent, with this i believe being the first release of this in a legitamate format, then i would accept this fully in anyones playlist. My point about the "Loves stormy Weather" is where (for me) things fall into that foul and vile grey area . Once again it really isn't that important to me, but this is a view i know i share with a least a few other people, here on this forum and out and about on the scene.

Hey it's a big world....but i would'nt wanna' paint it.....

Edited February 22, 200520 yr by Brett

Ask Sam to play 'Things a lady ain't supposed to do' and look what he plays it on.

Well I play it on Peachtree here in Oslo and it would really p*ss me off if someone played it on Grapevine 2000 in a set before or after me

re: playing a Grapevine issue over an original a DJ has on the same line-up - I do take the point Brett and no, I'd never play the Grapevine issue if I knew a DJ on the line-up has the original and would play it. That said, if no-one has it and I want to spin it then it would get played...obviously alongside my Casino Classics LP's and all my Wigan Ovations biggies :-))))

I love the Grapevine 2000 stuff, but have resisted buying too many as I reckon £10 for these reissues is a bit over the top. What do you people think?

I reckon £10 for  these reissues is a bit over the top.  What do you people think?

link

The only track which to my knowledge is a 're-issue' i.e. previously released on a UK label, is Mr Bang Bang Man - the 'B' side of Little Hank's Try to Understand. I may be wrong in that assertion and I'd be happy to be corrected.

So if I am correct the rest are all original British issues.

Brett - you make a very good point in relation to Ruby Winters - Stateside vs Diamond. In this context where might Percy Stone and the Explosions - Chained stand in the future? It has been withdrawn by Grapevine with very few copies reaching the market place; potentially the British release could now be even rarer than the US release on Ram.

Brian

I love the Grapevine 2000 stuff, but have resisted buying too many as I reckon £10 for  these reissues is a bit over the top.  What do you people think?

link

If the artist is getting some benefit, which with Grapevine releases they are, I am happy to pay that bit extra for it.

I see the only people getting the hump over this again are those that own the originals and don't want to be outdone. The majority of the audience wouldn't care. As a lot of them are now deleted, they will be quite hard to find in years to come. They are legit so put 'em on.

At The Greatstone Hotel on saturday, I kicked off my spot with " Dottie Pearson..Bring it over baby " recent grapevine release, and previously unissued, I have no problem playing records in this format..

At The Greatstone Hotel on saturday, I kicked off my spot with " Dottie Pearson..Bring it over baby "  recent grapevine release, and previously unissued, I have no problem playing records in this format..

link

I have no problem with people playing "Bring it over baby" as the song is previously unissued. That's not the same thing as playing "Love stormy weather" or "Chained" all of which gained original US releases.

Basically what I'm saying is that I personally would NEVER attend a venue where I knew they played these UK reissues. And I would NEVER book a DJ at our club here in Oslo if I knew they played UK reissues. Just my opinion that's all. People are free to do what they like at their own venues. Play boots, play CDs, play reissues or whatever. Each to their own. I prefer the "real thing" - that's all.

Edited February 22, 200520 yr by cC B

If the artist is getting some benefit, which with Grapevine releases they are, I am happy to pay that bit extra for it.

link

Agree 100% with you Mr G. At least John and Co look to put something back into the hands of those that gave us the enjoyment in the first place. £10 is quite reasonable in this day and age for a 45 of this calibre - the days of getting into an allnighter for £2 are also over Each to their own as they say but for me I have always belivied that getting the music out there and appreciated and encouraging young blood onto the scene are the 2 most important issues we need to address in this day and age. If we don't then we become an aging scene and fade away. Just my opinion, so don't have too much of a rant at me (I'm only young - look at my cute piccy!)

In this context where might Percy Stone and the Explosions - Chained stand in the future?  It has been withdrawn by Grapevine with very few copies reaching the market place; potentially the British release could now be even rarer than the US release on Ram.

How could this UK reissue EVER be as rare as the US original, which is known only from a very small handfull

How could this UK reissue EVER be as rare as the US original, which is known only from a very small handfull   

link

Hi Christian

This is not a UK re-issue; it is an original UK issue. If I'm incorrect in that statement, please tell me the original UK issue label.

It could (might) be rarer than the US issue as only a very small number have been released by Grapevine (the record was very swiftly withdrawn from sales). I don't know the definitive number of US copies nor do I know the definitive number of UK copies. All I am asking is where might it stand in future years if ultimately there are fewer UK issues than US issues.

Unless you know the definitive number of copies on each side of the Atlantic then your question 'How can this UK reissue EVER be as rare.......' can only be rhetorical, not based on fact? If there are proved to be fewer UK copies than US copies, then, by definition, it is rarer in UK format. I'm not necessarily talking values here - rarity doesn't always correlate to value.

You say that you would only ever play US copies, never UK reissues - where do you stand in the context of British Tamla Motown (TMG) singles?

I'm not looking to make this post controversial for the sake of controversy - I'm trying to develop a debate that I think is extremely pertinent and appropriate to this type of forum.

Look forward to you further views on this.

Regards

Brian

...well I guess if I try to buy all the white UK demos that were sold of Percy Stone and throw them in the sea - I'm sure I can make a real rarity out of it

Point is: who cares? It was pressed last year! Ok, it might be an original UK release, but it was pressed over 30 years after the TRUE ORIGINAL

Cheers,

Christian B

PS! The UK "reissue" plays the same song on both sides. The flip of the US original is pretty decent as well

Why the F**K would anyone play a Grapevine 2000 (except for the unissued ones of course) at a serious rare soul night?? Legit or not. These are re-issues. I would never attend an allnighter or soul night, where they played these together with the real US originals. IMO of course. No need for anyone to get all upset and stuff 

Keep it real!

Cheers,

Christian B

PS! Who would like to also say that I love Grapevine and all their releases. Quality soul! Still no need for people to pretend that they are hot-shot rare soul DJ's and play re-issues.

link

Jesus Christian what a load of bollocks you talk, so you telling me youve never been to a soul night where local issues or reissues are played......christain theres brown stuff dribbling from the corners of your mouth matey

So would you consider british stateside releases to be crap issues or reissues could name many more lables but cant waste my time.

Oh by the way hats off to Grapevine2000 for bringign rare and unissued tracks to the masses

Geeooooordie

Oh by the way hats off to Grapevine2000 for bringign rare and unissued tracks to the masses

Geeooooordie

link

Jesus Christian what a load of bollocks you talk, so you telling me youve never been to a soul night where local issues or reissues are played......christain theres brown stuff dribbling from the corners of your mouth matey

Jesus indeed. No need to get all upset you f**kin prick :angry: And to answer your question - no I haven't been to soul night where reissuses are played and I never intend to.

Jesus indeed. No need to get all upset you f**kin prick  :angry:  And to answer your question - no I haven't been to soul night where reissuses are played and I never intend to.

link

And yes I do love Grapevine and all their releases. Real soul - no bollocks.

Still don't want to hear reissues when I attend a RARE SOUL NIGHT

christian

i take it you dont come to many uk do,s then

must be a great nite you have out there standing behind the decks all nite checking record numbers against catalogues incase someone slips up.

how fkin boring

Still don't want to hear reissues when I attend a RARE SOUL NIGHT 

link

Why, do they sound different???

i

take it you dont come to many uk do,s then

Nope, but the ones I attend certainly do NOT play reissues or bootlegs

must be a great nite you have out there standing behind the decks all nite checking record numbers against catalogues incase someone slips up.

how fkin boring  

I don't really have to check as I would only ever attend a serious allnighter/soul night. Respect to places like the Lifeline Allnighters. No

wanna-be-hot-shot-DJs armed with reissues there

Why, do they sound different???

link

Jesus Christ - what's wrong with you people here

Never thought it would be "controversial" to prefer Allnighters

and Soul Nights where they only play originals. I can play

the reissues and CD's at home. Would never dream about

playing them at a rare soul venue though

So Christian

are you going to send a personal threatening mail to pete s and waynec for having a go or are you just hacked at me

calm down its only f**king music

So Christian

are you going to send a personal threatening mail to pete s and waynec for having a go or are you just hacked at me

calm down its only f**king music

link

Nah, just you... You started the verbal abuse here you c*nt

So try to calm down yourself After all its only music.

Nah, just you... You started the verbal abuse here you c*nt

Nice.

hey Im calm,

smiling when I wrote the first theread smiling now, seems your sense of humour is lacking from the first thread

hey Im calm,

smiling when I wrote the first theread smiling now, seems your sense of humour is lacking from the first thread

link

Cool Then we can all go back to being friends and holding each others hands Peace

How did we (well you lot, this is my first post on this topic) get from extolling the virtues of Grapevine 2000 releases to swearing at one another?

All have agreed that they were great releases, so can we just leave the old original/reissue/bootleg arguments alone? Thought that old chestnut had been laid to rest and we'd all agreed to disagree on the matter (believe a poll was done!).

Now just shake hands and apologise to one another, please.

Oops, seems you have already!

Nah, just you... You started the verbal abuse here you c*nt 

link

hey that's my line

   

hey that's my line 

link

From 3/4 people looking at this thread, its now 11.

Reminds me of a fight in the playground at school.

So Christian

are you going to send a personal threatening mail to pete s and waynec for having a go or are you just hacked at me

link

Oh yes please!!!!

From 3/4 people looking at this thread, its now 11.

Reminds me of a fight in the playground at school. 

link

Good one, certainly felt like it...........

never mind its all good fun

Jesus Christ - what's wrong with you people here 

Never thought it would be "controversial" to prefer Allnighters

and Soul Nights where they only play originals. I can play

the reissues and CD's at home. Would never dream about

playing them at a rare soul venue though 

link

Reason I said do they sound different is because I don't give a toss what the format is though I'm not keen on cd, though I guess if I was 20 years younger I would probably feel the same as you

I'm not sure how the mix-up happened??

Christian was clear in that he didn't think re-released material should be played at certain venues. And in some instances I agree.

Maybe I'm wrong, but he didn't have a problem with previously unreleased stuff Again, I agree that if it's the first release anywhere on 7" then no venue should have any problem whatsoever.

Some people have a different views on the matter, and we should respect views without getting to the level of profanity. You bunch of complete

Jamie

If the masses want to hear certain records then they should go to the venues that play them!

No one's forcing anyone at gunpoint to be a DJ either - if you don't have the discs, then don't get up there. Christian has hit the nail on the head here - he's doing it with integrity, passion and commitment - people like that will always be in the minority but without his attitude there is no scene.

Hammy

Jamie,

He did state they were reissues and (its hard to judge in text) apeared to belittle anyone who played then in his "hot shot dj" comments.

anyway its done so dont drag it any further and hey keep the wankerman comments to yourself

From 3/4 people looking at this thread, its now 11.

Reminds me of a fight in the playground at school. 

link

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT !