Rick Cooper

Dave I don't think I'd agree about your view on the UK sales system. I never signed the cheques or worked in accounts but the various record shops I worked in paid for all the records they received and could only return a percentage or certain titles that the record companies did a special promotion on. Most of the TV advertised LPs had a very generous sale or return allowance. There was a cut-off date for returns so head office would ask for stock to be sent back fairly soon after the record dropped down the charts. These returns never got sold as deletions as the sleeves could be a bit tatty. The stock that sometimes got sold cheap would be the records that had never been sent out. Record shops in the US ranged from small local shops to national chains so ,as in the UK, return arrangements varied. Small shops often used a One Stop distributor to buy all their stock, I can't see them being able to send stock back. I don't think shops were paid for returns ,more likely they got credit against future purchases.Record companies didn't like paying anyone. We could do with a US shop owner from the sixties putting us straight. Another thing I remember from the 70s is when there was a cardboard box that had a drill hole or cut corner and the contents had the drill hole or cut in exactly the same place, the box always had one title in it and they never had any price stickers on. On the other hand boxes of mixed titles never had the same hole or cut as the contents. From this it seems likely that drill holes and cuts were done to stock that had never been to shops but only got as far as a distributor and was still in sealed boxes. I can't see record companies having jumbled up shop returns sorted out into the same titles, boxing them up, drilling or cutting and then selling for a few cents. It wouldn't be economical. Shop returns were probably written off, junked or sold off after a couple of years as job lots. Rick

Rob Probably loads of others did the same as Melvin. The records left at shops would end up in the 10 cents bin waiting for RobbK to buy them.I don't think these would need to be drilled. The same thing happened in this country, especially when the indie labels were starting up. I remember two lads coming in to Ames Records in Stockport when I worked there who said they had just been signed up and their new single was coming out next week. They left 10 copies and would check in a week or two to see if they had sold. They did sell as the group they were in was The Smiths. The two lads were not Morrissey or Marr so must have been the other two that only Smith fans remember. Rick

Just to add a bit more to this, as far as I know the US was the only country to drill singles or cut LP covers so it was mainly done because of the sale or return system they used. I don't think the small shops could return records but for most labels that used independant distributors all unsold stock could be returned to the label. So to make sure unscrupulous companies didn't buy up deleted stock and then try to return them for full credit the records had to be marked somehow. In the UK there was a very limited system for shops to return unsold stock. From what I remember ,in the 70s shops had a returns allowance based on their purchases in the previous few months. I suspect big shops like Woolworths had quite a big percentage allowance but it was never talked about. The records to be returned could only be sent back after the record company had approved the shops application, any titles that had been deleted couldn't be returned. The unsold stocks that the companies had eventually were sold off but not too soon after being deleted. There was a company , SP&S , that got most of the deleted stocks, who would then sell them to shops or exporters. Quite a lot of the albums ended up in other European countries as some of the titles , especially Rock, were still full price over there. There was no need to mark the records as it was impossible to buy a deleted record and then try to send it back for the full purchase price. The records returned by shops were probably binned as it would be too much trouble to sort them out. I'd be interested to know if anyone has any non US singles with drill holes, Canada or Jamaica maybe? Rick

When record companies decided a particular title had no more sales potential the remaining singles would have the hole drilled in the label which meant the stock could be sold off cheap and the usual royalties wouldn't need to be paid. The hole was drilled on a pillar drill through a 25 count box of singles it was not done with any sort of hot needle. The melted blob of plastic sometimes found on the cardboard box or single was friction from the drill melting the record. The companies would sell off the stock by the thousands to places, such as House of Sounds, that would then sell them to record stores, funfairs, department stores, market dealers, exporters, etc. As US record companies allowed distributors and one-stops to return unsold stock for full credit the hole prevented the cheap deletions getting mixed up with full price stock. Albums had one corner cut at 45 degrees or a saw cut in the top corner , again done in 25 count boxes and on a bandsaw. Some large companies prefered not to have their failures flooding the shops so ground up deleted stock. Tiny companies didn't always sell off old stock, they probably chucked them away or put them in their basement, until some crazy European collector turned up offering to buy the records. Rick

John Like you my brother worked on cargo ships in the 70s so I've asked him about this. But as he was mainly on Gulf oil tankers he couldn't say for sure about LPs for ballast.However he explained that the containers were loaded according to weight, the heaviest went in first to keep the weight low down. So a container with LPs in would be loaded first and ,say, one with cotton or tobacco would go on the top layers. He never heard of shipping companies buying goods just to fill containers to give ballast. The oil tankers he was on had to be able to sail "light" as oil went one way. The ballast tanks were filled with seawater but he said the ship was OK sailing quite high out of the water, however this was around the Gulf and African coastal water not trans Atlantic. I had a look on websites about ballast, some technical and very boring. These just referred to filing compartments at the bottom of the hull with water to act as ballast. The practice of loading anything heavy in the bottom of a ship on a return journey was obsolete by the 1920s. So I am still not convinced records were bought by shipping companies just as ballast and then dumped on arrival. Records may have gone in the bottom layer but so would anything heavy. I think we may have to agree to disagree. As to the very low price of LPs in some of the strange shops you would find in the 70s these could have come from importers who had made their profit from most of the container load and just needed to get rid of the residue before the next load arrived. Soul Bowl used to sell singles for 1 pence each if we bought at least 50000. The cost and trouble of storing them was more than they were worth. At Global we would sell about 20% of these to The Netherlands or Japan , make a profit on those and the rest could be sold or given away. At Robinson's Records we sold LPs for under 10p to fun fairs just to get rid and free up the space. In the 70s the dollar exchange rate was such that importing from the US was a lot cheaper than today. The big warehouses in the US would want to clear old stock and prices could be very low at certain times. A google search of "Records as Ballast" brings up a thread on here from 2006. Most contributions are fairly inconclusive, one person states that his father says it's not true. Some people mention water damage but this happened in the US , usually from sprinkler systems in fires. Rick

That would be the owner Ed Balbier. "Abrupt and short tempered" were two of his good points Rick

Yes,sort of. Global set up Yanks Records as a retail operation in the front part of the basement. The wholesale and export business was still called Global Record Sales. Rick

John Do you mean by this that shipping companies would want to take records at very cheap rates just to give weight to vessels that would otherwise cross the Atlantic half empty. If so I never heard or read of this when I was working at Global or Robinson's Records. By the 1970's and 80's Atlantic shipping was done on container vessels to ports such as Felixstowe and European ports such as Rotterdam. Loads carried in ships holds were phased out in the 60s so the need for a ballast cargo was obsolete. Also I'm not sure the biggest economy in the world would not have enough exports to fill ships sailing to Europe without having to send unwanted records. All the importers I knew in the 70s sent large consignments of records by containers that were loaded in the US warehouses and not unpacked until the container was delivered to the customer. Hardly anything was loaded or unloaded at the dockside and boxed records were definitely not easy to load. The only reference to records as ballast I've ever heard is on these sort of forums . Maybe a few records came as ballast but I doubt that it ever was a regular thing. I'd suggest it is a theory that originated in the record bar at Wigan Casino. Rick

Andy The sticker on some imports you saw was probably the MCPS stamp. This was a charge by the UK publishing collection company (Mechanical Copyright Protection Society, I think) to pay writers etc for the songs . Nothing to do with customs duty. These stickers were a right pain as in theory every imported record should have had a sticker on but most places didn't bother. Collectors bringing in a few hundred singles wouldn't have been on the MCPS hit list. Rick

Liam I didn't see any of the invoices for customs charges but have a vague recollection that 2 or 3 hundred pounds would cover the freight and duty on an air shipment. The records I got for myself from the US by post in the 70s rarely had a customs charge, especially if they were a "gift" Rick

Liam Back in the 1970s I worked at Global in Manchester who shipped records from the US. Two methods were used depending on the quantity and value. Air freight was used for records, LPs and singles, that Ed Balbier had picked from the various warehouses in Philly and New Jersey. They were packed at his premises in Philly and taken to the Airport. On arrival in Manchester I would go to pick them up in the company VW camper van. This would take around 50 boxes of records, singles in 200 and LPs in 25 or 50 count boxes. This would have been fairly expensive but must have been worth it as the stock sold quickly. Customs duty and shipping costs were paid to the agent at Manchester airport. Two or three times a year Balbier sent over a container load of bulk stock and sometimes a mixed parcel of singles he had got from somewhere or other. These would take a month or so to arrive in the UK and then put on a lorry to delivery to Manchester. As the singles were totally random they could include some good stuff as well as rubbish, but as the shipping costs were a lot lower it didn't matter too much. Ed Balbier also packed a suitcase full of singles when he came back to England. I think other dealers probably did much the same. Soul Bowl had a lot of stuff sent by container but probably used air freight for the most expensive titles. Record Corner and Selectadisc would have used airfreight as they were bringing in titles that were needed quickly. Some collectors who travelled the US may have posted records as they found them as it was hard work, and risky, carrying hundreds of singles on the Greyhound bus. Here are pics of the Philly and Manchester premises. The building with the cross is on N Broad St in Philly and the basement windows is the Manchester place. The pavement window on the left used to have a door in it were the boxes went down a chute and the red door is where they came out . Long time ago now but happy memories.

Here's one for Valentine's day . Shouldn't cost a lot but worth every penny. Bobby Sheen - I Want You For My Sweetheart. - Dimension

The BBC filmed Root and Jenny Jackson at the Plebs Club in Halifax. Unfortunately the Youtube clip has Impressions - Cant Satisfy playing over the video but Root and Jenny on stage. Julian , were you there? Rick

Pete According to Dave Moore and Jason Thornton's excellent book, The Philly Sound, the Jamie release used Marke although it was not his real name but for the Soul City release they used Chris which is his real name. No reason is given but the writers credit on the Jamie release is C Jackson so maybe he didn't like Marke. There was a big row between Dave Godin and Chris , brief details are in the book. I've been told a bit about it but those who were there could give a fuller account. It's good to see you back on Soul Source, Pete. Rick

One from way back when records were fast and furious. Picked the instrumental , of course , but A side has Bobby telling you how to do the Whip. Pic cover has all the footwork so you could have watched Bobby on UPBEAT in 1969 and danced along. Some UPBEAT clips on youtube but I couldn't find our man. Gravities Band/Bobby Newton - Do The Whip- Mercury Rick

When I was a about fourteen I remember going ten pin bowling and a group of hip teens were on a nearby lane. They kept the jukebox going and repeatedly played Give and Take by Jimmy Cliff . This would have been as a new release in 1967 and I thought it strange that a record totally ignored by the BBC was on a jukebox in Wythenshawe. A few years later I used to go to a local disco in a pub that had a jukebox instead of a DJ . This had loads of Motown , Stax , Atlantic on it but this was when a rare soul scene was just starting up. Particularly popular was the Spinners I'll Always Love You, that must have been played four or five times a night. I suppose it's not that surprising that jukeboxes would have some obscure UK soul releases on as it was teenagers who were the main customers and they didn't want to hear the same stuff the BBC played. Back in the 60s the charts still had loads of MOR crooners ,C+W , and novelty songs so the jukebox operators would pick anything from the new releases that they thought would be popular with their customers. Rick

A record that ,whilst not the greatest, is one with special memories. I first came across it as a reader's tip in Dave Godin's column in Blues and Soul and thought with a artist and title like that it's got to be something special. The reader was, I'm fairly sure, our own Julian Bentley (JulianB on here) who I met some months later who, guess what, had copies for sale.. I can't remember it being bootlegged in the 70s as it was not a title with a big enough demand. The usual dealers such as Selectadisc didn't have it . From my time at Global Records in the late 70s I seemed to get the impression that Original Sound was a label that was still active and maintained stock for many years after first release. They also ran an Oldies series for the early rock n roll hits which were available from them direct or through regional distributors. It's possible that the record was popular in one of the various regional music scenes in the US and was pressed at different plants , which accounts for different deadwax details . Rick

The Columbia titles were legit and maybe the Eric ones. One copy of Frankie Beverley If That's What You Wanted on Sassy at £3 presumably from Neil Rushtons find. Rick

Steve I've not seen Big Scotty for years, how is he? Pete Sorry to hijack your question. Rick

I got one demo from Bostocks stall at Bradford market in the early 70s which was unusual as all the other 1000s of Verve records they had were issues. If there were issues I'm sure they would have had them. Rick

In the (almost) words of Major Lance- Ain't Much Sole ( In These Old Shoes) Bought these around 1972 as ordinary shoes but after a few years worn for soul nights only, as excellent for shuffling and sliding around all the major venues. Used over the next forty five years but eventually had to admit they were past their best, but couldn't chuck them away. Maybe I could get them stuck back together and polished up for one last outing. Also still got a black leather Levi/Wrangler style jacket bought second hand in 1971. Still just about fits but if I wore it anywhere I'd look like some sad old git who thinks it's 1975. Rick

Well, you learn something everyday. Not heard of Sunshine Pop before but would these count, Robert John- Raindrops Love and SUNSHINE, John Lucien- What a Difference Love Makes, Lee Andrews -I've Had It, Leroy Taylor- Oh Linda.The last three more Sunshine Soul than pop but all have that happy, bouncy rhythm. I can't see the connection to Mitch Ryder and some of the others listed, more like blue eyed soul. Ian Levine championed this type or sound from the early Mecca period , playing Spiral Starecase early 70's. Les Cockel also seemed to like this style so maybe some got late Wheel spins. Rick

Pete When Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up came out I thought the whole record sounded like The Street People on Vigor, which I'm sure Pete Waterman would have been familiar with. Controversial saying Lou Ragland sounds like Rick Astley as it's the other way round Rick

Geater Davis = Bobby Bland

Not a soul artist as such but Marilyn Moore got jazz critics in a tizzy with her singing. Sounds exactly like a famous voice that is always described as unique. See what you think.