Tlscapital

Ex is nice. Still £2.500 + up to £3.000 is what I would have expected by today's hysteria on prices for a 'TOP500' and a real class of a tune. But maybe not in the "high prized league" anymore next to real "oldies"... Here's discogs past sales on it BTW ;

Priced to sell. 😞

The 'this is the ending' deep soul side is the one where the mix on the bigger font press matters most. The smaller font pressing has the lead singer mix in the whole music "mixture" where on the bigger font pressing the lead stands out upront. For a much greater dramatic and deeper effect. To the surprise of most who still stick (wrongfully IMO) to the 'crying' side for some reason while ignoring the gem on the flip until once played out. A feeling of 'déjà vu' ? Mmh... Will it go even bigger once that side is played/called out ? Mind you to dance very slow or tight to. Not a "northern" record by a mile.

A classic case when it comes to "unknown' tunes, no ? I've always loved my finds through my 'crate diggins' expeditions no matter them being "northern" sounds or other soul genres. And while selling and/or trading I've always pushed like you describe "worthy" sounds yet not in the realm of 'Joe Public"'s target. But never helding a grudge to those who had to await the 'big ticket' status to come back to me once the frenzy took off asking me 'do you still have it for sale'... To tell them NOPE - it's gone now ! Records collectors maybe. Music lovers or adventurers ? Me yes. Anyway which press of the Si-berians you had back then ?

Don't compare them two please. You not liking the Si-Berians is one thing, many really DO. Me being for one. Have them two. I couldn't live without my Flirtations 45 FWIW. Yet the Si-Berians is best for it's flip side 'this is the ending of our love' IMO. Crave, sigh and drool... Now begging the ? to others who've seen the auction was it the big RICARDO logo font press or the smaller font one ? Bob Abrahamian wasn't clueless on what difference was hiding in the groove between them two presses... Thank you Bob for pointing it out ! RIP

As a guess £3.000 if ever... But maybe no more than Tim Brown's auction if ever that's more realistic. What was Tim's auction copy condition BTW ?

Although he made a better living of his compositions and his publishing Company I truly love this blinding 45 of his featuring his scorching and pleading singing. On both sides ! R.I.P. Big Guy +

Could be. Not able to reach all my records at this moment but was going on the net by well known label like A&M and Omen (who also had those glossy labels) and found on Omen Brice Coefield with the MR stamp matrix but no before Omen releases... Although the Sequins on A&M (February 1965) appears to have the MR stamp...

Pre mid 1965 (the Volumes here is March 1965) the machined MR in circle was apparently just not existing yet. By 1966 it was that I know. Am yet to find when it began by mid 1965 more or less...

Instant love struck for me. With time the flip 'one way lover' became the reccurrent play side home and occasionaly out as well for a less "frantic" (ain't that saying a lot) and a 'finer' vocal harmonies performance. If value should be based only on "beauty" (pedigree of names involved) of a record and it's "musicality" (what "rare" soul sounds are/can be) this record would be sitting high in the 'classified' ranks. In my own 'ranks' it is.

Yes but they did not press styrene pressings at Alco I believe. Or did they ?

If your VG++ is like an EX+ then £150 to £175 I believe is a fair price for both parties. The red variant was often sold as a 'rarer' variant. Then so was the stocker when the trend was going for that (none of which is that true IME but both are seller's arguments). I doubt the black promo should prove of greater intrest in value though... My preference goes for the presumed Monarch pressing (like for most collectors I believe) and should command a bit more in my book. The stocker counterpart for that pressing is also prized and smashing. The Mint factor for this loved record from day one should take it's price tag to higher grounds as those are the rarer ones about.

Before find which one is yours as there are 4 demo variants for it ! Involving 3 pressing plants ! Now I believe the black demo being the rarest (Shelley Products pressing plant). Then the 2 white demos with thin typos for the credits. One with red imprint and another with black imprint. Both are the most seen variations IME (Columbia Terre Haute pressing plant I believe). Then finally the white demo with a thick typos which is a West Coast pressing I believe (no Monarch stamp though FWIW but all leads to that) on glossy paper. Price or value could vary accordingly (£100 - £200+). Condition though IME would prove more crucial. A rare company sleeve with it a serious bonus to consider for value !

Patrick was born in March 1950. The The Sparks 'woe woe' on M.S.R. (month ? 1967) then later on CUB was October 1967. The Carlettes on BR was August 1969 and the later both Capitol releases March 1970. Altough the Carlettes would be his first time at directing and arranging as well as composing. Him full at it. Where with the Sparks only co-composer. Thanks for pointing out.

Legendary name to many into "discothèque" music genres. It came back to me (must have noticed it before but forgot then...) when I got in my BR copy of the Carlettes 'I'm getting tire' b/w 'lost without your love' that a young 19 year old debuting Patrick Adams was credited at the composition, direction and arrangements there ! Is that the first time his name appeared on a record ? I'm lead to believe so but... Although a fantastic 'frantic' record his talent hopefully grew for greater success and posterity. He made it his life and living. God Bless +

Old post by now but 30 plus-plus years for these items at these prices. More like 35 to 40 years ago at least for such refelecting prices IME. 30 years only would set you back to 1990...

Too many such speculative set-sales all over the internet (from anonymous or reputed carefree dealers) coupled with auctions going over rhe roof (deep pocket "outside" new commers) makes room for the opportunists to dare without shame in participating into the desintegration of current average conscensus prices. All is wrong.

OK, that could very well be (read that therory before) but that would mean that the flaws were that recurent for every forth coming release to last for a while release after release from Soul 35020 up to 35029... That both with V.I.P. and the Soul label simultenaously... And then at an other time frame with Tamla and Motown... Making me believe that it was rather intentional somehow for fast'N'easy rush commercial releases. Before being attested by a person of authority on the matter of such nonchalent professional aptitude to make the same and yet most easy to correct flaw not once, nor twice but repetedly I'll stick to my theory.

Gladys Knight and The Pips 'walk in my shoes' on west coast is far less rare than the Frances Nero (whose white promo variants of that very west coast press is more common for example than it's white/lilac stocker counterpart for that matter) on west coast styrene pressing on the white/lilac labels. Even though Gladys on the west coast pressing is still rarer than the vinyl ARP pressing (not rare at all that one) none the less.

Blimey ! Makes sense as I've never seen the stocker of this west coast pressing but only the white promo. And I don't look at what is reissued or booted (same shame frame IMO) anymore so the net can indeed fool me. Thanks for pointing that out. This is the real stuff ;

Will try to dig out my demo and ask a friend who comes along to bring along his stock copy with the 'B' side and check both matrixes and play wise. I love my Motown 45's with their RCA masterings. They sound finer on my good MONO phono set up. Really they do. Even some guests notice that finer difference at times and I wont credit them as audiophiles.

Rarest press I believe is the west coast stocker (seen few white promos variant of it though) with the first label design... Yummy !

Am born in 1970 and based in Belgium. Use to pick them up here as the flip 'fight fire with fire' was a 'Pop-Corn' sound. But it was never considered even here as a 'rare' one. Use to pick them up for £1 to about £3 to after retail them for about £7.50 early nineties to my soul friends here. It was a good 'catchy' seller on first ear. Early 21st Century the UK Northern revival came and the scene played a lot of Motown and the prices started to sour... All the big shops had both JM and KR price guides... Then at one time all the dealers here in Belgium got to see those prices on the net. No Frances Nero were available all of a sudden amongst many other things. Then I manage to swap my stocker for a promo as they were selling for the same money now. Thrilled I was. Never expected to own one white demo. Thinking I got me a deal but actually not. Just a preference swap for both...

Old thread indeed. To set the record straight the issue is/was to more common pressing to be found. The record was a good seller in 1966. The Northern revival and it's new commers and resurected folks with deep pockets had no experience to allow the dealers to push up the prices of many records. This one as well. With some dee-jays replays this Motown classic finally got it's 'posh' popularity. A new northern made it's entry in the TOP 500+ The stocker gained much in price (X 10) where the promo not at all at the same time. To sell for similar money regardless. Purchased by non collectors now. Explaination maybe ? If some argue that the stocker features a great 'B' side that the promo does not, it's true. Or partly at least. The promo doesn't feature a real 'B' side, True. But honestly if 'fight fire with fire' musicaly is fair, vocally and lyric-wise it's just another dull record IMHO. For proof if it was only for 'fight fire with fire' not many here would even mention Frances Nero. That's that. Then as for those double 'A' sided labeled stockers out there I am about certain that these were just commercial rush releases when they didn't have a 'B' side ready yet but the demand was hot. Not a promo but a single sided stocker for rush sales I believe once the tune was readily available as promo and the air-play made it's buzz.

Looked out for a 1969 'King' remix/version on YT but all are the De Luxe 1966 mix. Only found this one that was made in my dear old country Belgium by and for the 'Pop-Corn' people with a so slightly over-pitched recording of it but not by much if ever. Voilà...