Tlscapital

AMERICAN red label on vinyl variant press CANADIAN pressing

Ol' topic on here but at least 3 classic soul "riffs"compiled in that 'I hate to be the one to say' composition... Can you guess them ? 😮

OK thank you for clarifying that. Got mislead by some YT imagery at one time I believe since I never got to hear an actual copy...

Remember vividly hearing for the first time the "string" version on 'love (your pain goes deeper)' play out... Shocked and in disbelief I never knew about that "horrible" mix difference with the all Gamble the pressings (USA, Italy...) out there. Seing that all the Sassy 1002 stock copies were shelved back as part of the lease deal with Gamble I now get why the promo is seen as much rarer by the Brits who got the whole Sassy 1002 NOS stash by the seventies sourced directly from Billy Jackson. But what about Sassy 1002-2 ? Was this release with 'If that's what you wanted' as the 'A' side and 'love' renamed 'this is just a 'B' side' an actual third release ? Judging by the poor promotion Gamble gave to promote Frank's masterpieces that could very well be.

Yes Mark the connection. As said before both sides being Roddie Joy's tunes prior. Surrounded by the same producers and eventually composers (LOL ! 😉 ) but who are the Stoppers ? That's what bugging us still.

IMHO the for who or where is trivial in regard of the pressing qualifying matter. Although every stories behind such or such pressing is always most interesting for real. The label, the copyright ownership, the source like the 'reel tape' or the masters and all that comes into the process to manufacture the finished product are more relevant as to what to call the re-released record. And evidently the time gap between them pressings. With all the insights we now know from Ian Levine's broadcast air-play audition while in Miami back in 1973 and his desperation in that record quest. To John Anderson managing to dig up 3 radio copies somewhere in 1974 giving it the exposure on British soil at the Mecca making it one phenomenal northern soul record there an then before finally being re-issued on Gene Redd independent Red Coach label somewhere in 1975. All that makes this pink styrene pressing certainly a second issue or why not a re-issue if one prefers. Although for me the time gap between the two releases is not big enough to make it a re-issue as such. The fact that the record was re-released through Gene Redd in America makes it an 'import' in the proper sense of the word. In the end I'd call that a second or later issue. Like any re-release made to supply a public demand wherever.

You're right. My bad. I should have said that at that point the Chess/GRT distribution deal for Red Coach felt through and the record then didn't pass beyond the promo stage.

Yes we are aware of it but were hoping to get a more realistic price if ever...

Looking for a real clean PROMO only copy for a friend. PM me if ever.

OK but it's still Gene who re-released the Carstairs on his then own Red Coach label. Label that kept on releasing new materials afterward all the same.

It was pressed (or issued if you will) as white promo first in 1973. These were released under the Chess/GRT group who shut down very soon after. This Carstairs single then never got to see a commercial release. When original label owner Gene Redd got to build up his own Red Coach label soon after and just alongside his Red Lite one he re-released the Carstairs on a pink stocker with instant guaranteed sales within the UK.

The instrumental is fair. Totally agree with you there. The vocal not my thing. Even though no contender for me at that price. Even if I had a copy home I would swap it for something more "my street". At first I believed that this 45 was more either for the Detroit record collector's completists, the "forwarded" northern soul dee-jays into the funky'N'all weir stuffs or the American northern soul dudes. A rare record, OK. Now less but still none the less not that common. And really not so good either. Could it be that they're trying to push it with a "high to impress" 'bling-bling' price tag to attract the fools ?

The Johnie Brown is not 'northern soul' or at least doesn't qualify as yet. Would it have been it would have start to surface years ago. Just like the Matthew Barnett did before the internet days. With very few copies offered at first. Commanding then evidently the big price tag on the few UK dealers lists offering one. Long before the internet days things were different. Most UK dealers would set their prices accordingly to the NOS quantities thrown out on the market. Their reputation were at stake. While in the USA the dealers had to unload these soul records mostly on the European market as they had no such takers there. At one time some of the American dealers started to get better hints as how to get the most out of their finds for the European market. Price guides playing their bad part. And so they started playing another game with their regular European customers and such odd commercial behavior became the "new way" to do. With the internet everything changed even more. Major UK 'rare soul' dealers lost most their business exclusivity. The whole 'soul' market turned even more speculative, opportunistic and open to new money sharks, worldwide commercialist exploiters and fools throwing in their money pushing up the prices high up. The "sercrecy" I was referring to is as to who has the hand on all those copies and how many... Because if all of that was known, like it was sometimes the case in the past, things would be different. Now it's not known and the whole business around those records is indeed not helping the good and proper business IMO.

No bootleg of this but NOS (new old stock) maybe originating from Matthew Barnett himself but now I believe (been partly told in secrecy) all the copies are in an American dealer's hands together with the other PUFF odd (less my cup) last release on the label by Johnie Brown 'watch me work'. The 'original seller' spreads them out carefully or little by little I've been told. Mmmh. OkAy but... not really IMO. And how many still... ? Grabbed a copy as it was a rather elusive record in the past and I still love both sides like the first day hearing it. A must have record for me no matter how rare.

With all the respect due to Leonard, his memories (approximations) and his words the Rivieras 45 unarguably came out in 1966 wile the Proto Jays release only in 1968. The Proto Jays as a group and name could have record 'counterfeit girl' backed with 'can I share your love' and so actually even pre-existed the release as the Rivieras. All that could very well be but for what ever reason James Riley opted for a re-baptism of the group release. Only later the 45 got re-issued under the original group name... Hence with a later catalog number with the new office/shop address on the label. That as this newspaper snippet sadly reveals was targeted by anti 'civil rights' activists.

Can we see ? 🤓

Why ? Because it's not 'authentic'. Bootlegs exist in California as well ! It is possible off course. Go to hell with your Anderson Brothers bootleg. You never showed a picture of the record naked (styrene proof) nor provide the recording of the MONO side. Glad that you have good feedbacks but that doesn't give you the authority to disregard people's advice with much more experience than you. And who unlike you have no interest in ripping off people. We jealous of you ? No way. Hate people who pollute the record business, yes we do. Rightfully so.

Here you go ; read and learn.

Good plot theory but no, it's not the same copy as the one that sold in December is a real one and the spot is not really identical.

Oh sorry, I meant Tom the guy fom the eBay store auctioning the bootleg of the Anderson Brothers that ended up at $3.250...

OK. Thank you for sharing that. Apparently many have "warned" him... But how many have actually reported it to the eBay ? FWIW that Tom guy PM replies came from a Germany established account and the eBay "shop" location indicates Spain... ? For the rest that eBay store is indeed established with good scores for a long time now. So what'z really going'on there ?

Only taking a chance I believe. He replied to me after reading me on here that he would refund the winner IF HE CAN PROVE that it's a bootleg... What a piss arrogant seller attitude is that ? His item description claims that it's the real deal without providing any proof of it (far from it showing a styrene claiming it's a vinyl) and then he begs to differ if the winner can prove him that it's not the real deal !

Four day days ago it was still under $800 while I first tried to contact the seller pointing him out in the right directions. Telling him that maybe he was mislead by what ever info he maybe had. Offering him to read what people on here had to teach him. I am a NICE person 😃 Asking him specific checks that will improve his highest bidder item attestation of pedigree with photos of the matrixes, sound clip of the MONO side... Like I hide nothing and show it all kinda attitude. But he ignore all of that and insisted on the seriousness of his business vigorously 🤑 The last real copy offered on eBay few weeks ago fetched $2.000+. This one will have fail to be held-up by eBay. To report the fraud item did nothing and their 'consumer service' is numb. The 'community' advised me to report the item... The LooP ! And apologies for poor eBay who had millions of items to process... Oh well, in the end both the seller and eBay will cash in on this fraudulent auction and one big looser might find out one day that he was ripped-off by more than one person. In the meantime ; The 'Alpha' : many will take that auction for reference. The 'Omega' : lots of those bootlegs will be passed on as the real thing for a long while.

The seller replied to me again. But he sticks to his claim. Reputated seller for 20 years... Find my post on here not serious on my behalf. Willing to refund the winner if he can prove that this copy is not an original... I let anyone sort that one out...

The real 'MONO' side plays really another mastering job that I blieve none of the bootlegs play.