Roburt

The 'troublemaker' is back ...

Didn't Charly first go 'off-shore' when they were in trouble for releasing Chess tracks (to Holland I seem to recall).

By the time Ed Wingate was trying to get into the record biz, Berry Gordy had just about hoovered up all the Detroit soul talent (singers, musicians, producers, arrangers, etc). So to make an impact, Wingate needed to bring people in from outside Detroit or find talented locals that Berry had overlooked or discarded. Motown had 'employed' the likes of George Clinton, Sidney Barnes, Popcorn Wiley and more but had 'discarded' them. Some singers came into town looking for record deals (Edwin Starr for instance), some acts were 'too like' already established Motown acts, so Berry had little interest in them (J J Barnes, Fantastic Four). So they gravitated to GW, but even more talent was needed by Wingate in the early to mid 60's. Ahead of his own studio being finished, some GW recordings were outsourced (some even to New York). In addition to the artists / musicians, talented song writers, arrangers & producers were needed. Some came & stayed (Al Kent) but others came & went (Sonny Sanders, biz veteran Gene Redd, etc.). By 1966 Wingate was short on cash, so maybe that's why some talented folk left GW and found greener pastures elsewhere. That may explain some departures. But is the true story behind the growth of GW, the establishment of the company and then it's (2 stage) sale to Motown fully understood and has it been documented properly anywhere ? JUST LOOKING AT THE FANTASTIC FOUR. They were formed after Motown was getting big hits with numerous artists, so maybe they had no chance of being signed directly by BG. So they went to Golden World and were signed straight up. They were teamed with folk like New York's Gene Redd and eventually enjoyed releases of their own. But as GW wasn't fully formed when they arrived there, it seems they initially helped out on other acts sessions. Singing backing vocals and the like. An 'outsider' from another city, with his then group was sent to GW by a guy who knew the team there. They turned up with a couple of songs in their pocket. They 'auditioned' for the guys who happened to be in the GW building on arrival & impressed them enough to be allowed into the studio, They cut their 2 songs + a couple of old standards, with the companies musicians participating plus with vocal help from the Fantastic Four. A New Yorker oversaw the session and was impressed by the results. He took possession of the master tapes & saying he'd get a 45 released, disappeared back off home. Things didn't work out between the group, the producer & GW, so those recordings never saw the light of day ... the songs were re-cut and did gain release. However the 'outsider' group never got a copy of their Detroit recordings and never saw the master tape ever again. This was an everyday occurrence in the record biz back then, not a situation unique to Golden World / Ric Tic. But it just illustrates what did happen back then. So, back to my initial query -- has the comings & goings at GW been investigated and explained / documented and how badly did this effect the company & it's output. Folk recall things not exactly as they actually happened or their memories are no longer fully accurate. Also points of view differ, so one sides view of what occurred could well be different from the other sides. So lots of work would be necessary to get the full picture. BUT with the long term interest in GW's work, I'm sure much of the info has actually been gathered. ALSO anyone know what the ratio between recordings made & recordings released was for them ? (at outfits like Motown -- (quality control & sheer number of tracks cut) -- and Way Out in Cleveland -- (studio being a front for 'other business' & lack of funds to press up many records) -- we know the tracks that got released were only a fraction of the actual tracks laid down.

Didn't Charly do a big promotion at the recent Blackpool weekender ... utilising Levanna, the leader of the Bristol soul crew. Think their new NS 45's were launched at the event. I'm sure the promoters of that event (Richard Searling, etc.) would know who to contact at Charly.

Fraid not, I didn't even know there was a pressing plant in Newport till I researched Spot & their releases. Obviously lots of other stuff must have been pressed there but I've no idea what.

. . . ON EVILBAY AT PRESENT: £110 . . . 7" with writing on label ... BUT ... Only 5 recorded sales (WRONG) no previous sales via Discogs .. little known independent Welsh label (WRONG -- London label which put out numerous releases).

Another Boogie Kings track ... this one is called "That's Really Some Good" (the Rufus & Carla song) ... Jerry & Gee Gee even get named checked on the label ...

The two guys who are credited on the 45 I'm interested in were in the Boogie Kings. They made quite a few goodies credited to the group & guess it's the group that's playing behind them on the "Ain't No Big Thing" cut ... another from them ... a cover this time ...

Oldies Unlimited were great for cheap UK, US, Canadian & Euro copies of soul 45's / LP's. It's been posted in the past that they even managed to get hold of a couple of copies of Shrine 45's. They had no idea what they had & sold them each for a few pence. His soul 45' packs were always good value (from around 1980 onwards they were full of TK label stuff. But he also got hold of lots of Motown45's & stuff on US indie labels. I got loads of mint soul 45's on Italian labels from there in the 80's. The owner was good (from our point of view) coz he'd charge more if the cut had been a hit or if it was by a more famous artist ... if it was more obscure (label / artist wise, he'd always sell em really cheap). I also managed to get access to his 'old stock'. We got a lock-in in his old chapel warehouse in Telford & picked for around 4 hours -- got loads of decent stuff but nowt really rare (others had been in there before us). Never got that many Canadian 45's from there though.

I bought a CD player to use in my 'newer' car. It also has a DAB radio, so that is tuned into MAGIC SOUL (no rare stuff played or NS though). On the computer I listen to Mixcloud, especially many of the 100's of shows put up there by Richard Searling.

Been on a La Louisianne quest recently as I've been writing an article on a guy involved with the Lafayette / La music scene of the 1960's / 70's. Most of the guys involved with the tracks of interest back then were white guys and lots went on (when soul was no longer the in sound) to move over to the swamp rock or country side of things. Eddie Raven was a song writer (under his real name of Edward Futch), a singer (making mainly non-soul stuff) and a producer (supervising many soul track cutting sessions). I'd like to know more about his soul era as just about everything on line mainly documents his later country music involvement (he wrote songs cut by many top country artists). But he was (earlier) involved with many local Lafayette recording sessions that resulted in good soul cuts being laid down. Some of these were picked up from the local label for national distribution (by the likes of Philly based Jamie). Other tracks stood the test of time so well that they went on to get released by Ace / Kent (& others) here in the UK -- see scans below. BUT I'm really after info on one song credited to Edward Futch in particular ... it shares the same title as one of my all time fave Chicago songs "AIN'T NO BIG THING". Anyone here got a copy of Gee Gee Shinn & Jerry "Count" Jackson's "Ain't No Big Thing" on La Louisianne ? I can't find a sound clip of this track on-line.

Way before Brian Auger formed Oblivion Express ... when he was switching from jazz to soul ... he was the subject of a UK music mag feature ... THEN ... after his time with Steam Packet & then Julie D as a mod / soul icon, he became very popular in the US and played all the big venues over there (Filmore West & East, etc) ... it was his popularity over there that resulted in his OBLIVION EXPRESS period and his original version of this thread's track ...

You takes your choice ... English or French lyrics ...

More input from a SDF member .... on CBS ('Oriole') pressed 45's ... Although their mastering and their vinyl sound quality were good, CBS UK was sadly one of the main offenders in terms of off-centre holes for both singles and albums. Therefore, a "farmed out" CBS pressing was more desirable to the likes of me. He didn't have knowledge of any Direction 45's that had been 'out-sourced', it was rock singles on CBS that Decca had pressed he had. I guess this 'off-centre trait was due to the equipment at the old Oriole / CBS plant in Aston Clinton being almost life expired. I'd guess they improved in quality when CBS moved to their new purpose built pressing plant on Raybans Lane, Aylesbury (see pic of it on original thread referred to earlier in this thread).

Geeselad, my brain is wired that way; I can't help myself once I get the bit between my teeth. But I'm not up there (knowledge wise) with the real Detroit experts, so always welcome input from others.

Back in the 80's, I was a guest on Richard Searling's Radio Hallam radio show. We were chatting & he mentioned he'd be playing Bud Harper's "Let Me Love You". I'd had a UK copy of Bud's "Mr' Soul" since it was big here in 1966. Haven't got a copy of that I told him, I've only got his "Mr Soul". ... DOHH BUT in my defence, I'd only had the 45 for around 17 years.

Yes, it was a phone call from his (then) girlfriend that prompted Lou to write the song. She was really really missing him, so he promised to head home to her in the morning (after his show that night). He promised to be there, to go home & see her .... So I asked him ... so you went home in the morning ... With a wry smile ... he said ... actually NO, in fact I never saw her ever again ... we all ended up on the floor laughing.

Lou told me the story around him writing this song (what the inspiration for the lyrics was). He had us all falling on the floor laughing.

Ian Melia put a Grant Smith & the Power 45 ("Thinkin About You") up on Facebook today. They were Canadian & Eddie Spencer had been the group's lead singer ahead of Grant Smith being hired. Lots of stuff on garagehangover about them.

So did The Eddie Spencer's "If This is Love" get it's 1st UK club spin by someone who bought one of the copies from this shipment ?

CBS out-sourced the pressing of some copies of a few Bob Dylan HIT 45's here in the UK. A few years later, they started having hits with some of their soul 45's on Direction. If CBS had out-sourced some of their pressing work when their own plant couldn't cope (to EMI & Phillips), maybe copies of the following HIT soul 45's were also out-sourced ... Sly & the Family Stone's" Dance To The Music" [[June 68 -- though this had escaped on EMI's Columbia label first), the Bandwagon's "Breakin' Down The Walls Of Heartache" [[summer 68) & the Tymes "People" [[Jan 69). Anyone here have knowledge of this actually happening ?

Input again from a SDF member ... copies of TMG 607 were outsourced for pressing. It seems likely these were done at the CBS / Oriole plant (probably the one in Aston Clinton) ... though some seem to think they may have been made by Pye. An 'out-sourced' copy is shown below ... the label on this looks identical to the EMI pressed copies, so it seems EMI supplied the labels for these 'out-sourced' pressings.

As already stated, Columbia / CBS bought out Oriole in 1965 (the deal being formulated in 64). CBS wanted their own UK outlet as their acts (Bob Dylan, etc.) were beginning to sell well internationally. But EMI & Columbia had a relationship (in the US & UK) that went right back to the 1930's. That's why EMI released stuff (& owned the rights to) the COLUMBIA label in the UK. So, when COLUMBIA bought out Oriole & started their own UK label/s, they had to be CBS here & not Columbia. But the 2 companies still 'got on' although from the mid 60's, they had no formal ties. The UK Columbia label had existed for decades & had various different label designs. In the early 60's, CBS owned labels such as Okeh had their 45's released here (Major Lance, etc) by EMI on the Columbia label. The relationship between the two was coming to an end though, so US soul stuff began to dry up on Columbia 45's. BUT, the two companies retained links AND when CBS started to have UK hits with Bob Dylan 45's, the ex Oriole pressing plants couldn't meet the peak demand. So CBS went to EMI and had some 45's pressed up at EMI's west London facility (again, Bob Dylan fans are fanatics, so all this info has been gathered by others already). The UK CBS Dylan 45's pressed up by EMI are mainly ID'ed by the tax code letters to be found on the record's centres (KT for instance). Below it shows a 3 pronged CBS 45 (Dylan's "Like A Rolling Stone") this was also pressed at an 'outside plant' (by Phillips I believe) as the CBS / Oriole versions always had 4 prongs.

3 versions of a 70's Tamla Motown 45 ... going further afield to get it pressed up ... with thanks to SDF member ... The German version for the German market ... The German version for the UK market ... The UK version for the UK market ...

There were 45's that sold steadily over a long period but never made the UK singles chart (or just made it into the bottom of the chart) ... these steady & long sellers would mostly all have been pressed in-house I guess ... with a 2nd pressing coming 6 to 12 months after the first. A record at the bottom of the Top 40 would be selling a fraction of the copies of that week's No.1 record. SO THERE WERE THE big CHART HITS ... some UK soul 45's were awarded silver (250,000 sales) or gold discs (500,000) for sales levels. These would have made it high into the top 10 but may only have sold in high numbers over a period of say 10 to 12 weeks. So, at their peak, they would have been selling around 40,000 copies in a 7 day period. These are the 45's that would have been outsourced to other companies pressing plants to meet the short term demand. So that's tracks such as the 4 Tops "Reach Out", "Marvin's "Grapevine", Stevie's "Yester Me, Yester You" & a couple of Supremes' singles+ other labels cuts such as Nina Simone's "Ain't Got No, I Got Life". How many copies of 45's such as Ike & Tinas' "River Deep", Roy C's "Shotgun Wedding" and Bob & Earl's "Harlem Shuffle" would have sold in their PEAK WEEK I can only guess at, but it seems that they also probably would have been out-sourced' too to keep up with demand. I think we'll never now know the full facts on actual sales figures. But with the info available on say how a Decca pressing differed from a Phillips or Pye, Polydor or EMI pressing, we should be able to ID certain Stateside, Tamla Motown & Bell 45's that definitely weren't actually pressed by EMI at their own plant.