Modernsoulsucks

"I think you will get into some deeper soul as you get older mr Norwich,thats the way it seems to go for most... " I think slightly dismissive of Norwichdancer's taste in Northern, Stevie, but Im sure he'll soon move on to those 50p Tom Jones albums on the rare Parrot label. ROD

I take your point Mulf. I was thinking more about the direct influence of 60's soul and including Northern in that. I guess when Jay-Z samples Billy Hambric we can say for sure we had some input. Im sure you'd agree that it was the funk sound that formed the early basis for hip hop rather than what we listen to at a regular Northern night. ROD

Ta Dave, that's cleared up that mystery after thirty-odd years!! I thought I'd read once that the stamp was "Nashville Music" and just thought I had bad eyesight whenever I came across it on different 45s. ROD

Tone, not my intention to under represent the contribution of guys from the South. Im certain they played a major part on the periphery!! Without Billingsgate how could we have got our jellied eels up here. It was just a vague recollection of my time down there which I really enjoyed and has stuck with me to such an extent that I still lapse into a foul-mouthed approximation of a cock-nee at every available opportunity. ROD

My comment re Bird's Nest Ady was purely tongue in cheek. Im sure I remember you too on Rupert St. Soho market. You've not changed a bit but I think that's more to do with the fact that you looked old then!! I went up to the Torch once in a minibus with some of Bird's Nest lads and I think the topic of conversation was the Len Barry version of "Love love love" or maybe "I'll always need you". Think one of 'em had the rare LP anyway. Wasn't Fuller Brothers and Dottie Cambridge London finds? But then with places like Moondog's and all the UK stuff lying about it wasn't that difficult if you had an ear for the sound. I think the only time I went to 100 Club [i apologise but it's a long way] was to see J.J.Barnes do his first show in the UK sometime between Sept 72 and March 73. I think Im right about that, aren't I. ROD

I'd like to agree wholeheartedly with Jock. By the end of Wigan the seeds were sown for a slimmed down less commercial Northern Scene. Some of my best memories are of the Casino when it wasn't rammed and Richard would not have the same pressure to play to the floor. There was also the small matter of the takeover by 70's sounds to the detriment of the 60's which was finally put back into balance when Stafford got into it's stride. A word in defence of Baz Maleedy. When Dave and I were running Out of the Past in Manchester in late 80's and 90's before the boom Baz was a constant customer and bought loads of 45s both 60's and 70's. Bloody awful payer but he was around although maybe he didn't have the profile he has today. ROD

Ta Rachel. Valentine's day tomorrow and I've got nowt for her yet so Im a bit distracted with the thought of retribution if I doon't get down to the shops smartish!! ROD

HELP MODERATOR!! I've mixed up two threads here, haven't I. ROD

To get back to the programme for a moment,as I understood it the aim of the series was to chart the rise in receptiveness to Black Music in the UK, alongside the development of UK based soul acts which could capitalise on that increased awareness and tastes for something other than pop music. Coverage of the Northern Scene was shoddy I admit but were we not just a beginning for soul to crossover into the mass market at the start of the 70's when as somebody previously mentioned things like the Tams,Formations and numerous Motown re-releases made the charts. Im not even sure that a case can be made for a continous line from that point to the present day as IMO it was the hip hop revolution that changed the face of music and a lot of the homegrown styles, such as UK garage,drum'n'bass, can be traced to that rather than some sweaty nightclub in Wigan. In fact if we influenced anybody it is more likely to be Soft Cell or Fatboy Slim than Miss Dynamite. Having said that what Bowie and the Clash were doing on the programme whilst the influence of US funk/disco in the 70's was hardly mentioned on groups such as Hi-Tension, Beggar & Co , L.O.W. was amazing. I don't know what the final conclusion of the series is gonna be but I don't think anyone can deny that hip hop/R&b culture and music has made massive inroads into popular music but I still get the impression that the UK variety is still regarded as the junior partner. As for the North /South divide I did live in London around 1972/73 and the Northern Scene was not as developed as up in Manchester. I regularly attended the Wheatsheaf pub and the music policy was across the board. I was told about the Bird's Nest but got the impression that it was run by a bunch of Del Boys!! Whilst it was difficult to find Northern 45s in Manchester you couldn't help falling over them down Sarth. I fancied a Mars Bar once and went into a newsagent somewhere around Bethnal Green and came out with almost 100 UK demos!! That's not to say that the guys down there were not enthusiastic, knowledgable or friendly. Everybody I met was great. It was just that Northern hadn't really caught on to the same extent, which is why I can't really take Norman's claim seriously. ROD

I think that's slightly unfair of Dan but can be explained by his faux-pas in turning up at Manchester in a freshly killed bear towel. A mistake anyone could make. ROD

I think Russ said never attend a club again. Nothing about sharing the music with like-minded mates. So give me the vinyl everytime although I'd obviously miss sitting through ZZ&Co,King Tutt,DJ Genesis etc ad nauseum and having nothing to complain about. ROD

Pretty sure mine is original and in run-out groove it has "REV. D 345B KP" scratched in. Then "Nashville Music [altho doesn't look like "Music"!!] stamp , then "95" scratched in. Same markings on other side except it's "345A". Just check that against your copy. ROD

Ah, the playlist has altered. So at some venues it's more like Parker's in Manchester used to be. ROD

Ged, Im not trying to be deliberately obtuse but Dave was referring to the Northern Scene evolving and you're referring to Dave's spot as compared to Stafford. He is one DJ. What do you mean that Dave's spot has evolved. From what to what? I mentioned Middleton and Sam last time I was there. Would I be right in thinking you and Flanny were on too. Again I don't really remember anything different from years ago. All the Djs played various styles of Northern Soul, a mixture of newies and oldies. OK that's slightly different in that at one time the oldies would be seperate in Mr. M's or similar. What is it that you all think you're either doing or needs to be done so that a terrible crash, which isn't coming anyway or even looks like it's on the cards, is to be averted. ROD

Ian was he a mate of Dave McCadden's as well!! ROD

"It just evolves" Pretty snappy comeback but what do you mean? In what way has the scene evolved. Clubs playing obscure soul music back in 19 whatever. It is now 2006 and it has evolved how. Last time I went out it was to a club playing obscure soul music. Not that IMO there's any crisis it needs to adapt and change to avoid. ROD

Barbara Banks on Smash

The Northern Scene appears to be thriving in various formats so I don't know why people are worried. There will be no collective bursting of any bubble. Individually there's bound to be as there are lots of folk who aren't on the scene now who used to be and Northern never went away. They did!! Personally my bubble burst when I realised I couldn't afford a lot of what I like. I enjoyed Quinvy's allnighter but not so keen on Middleton and I'd rather save the £70-80 on a night out at Middleton and buy some 45s. Also that smoking ban will be in force soon. So I guess I for one won't be keeping the scene going as a paying punter but Im not so egocentric to think it will make one jot of difference. Only thing that perplexes me is this regular call to get young blood on the scene. Someone mentioned a goth liking Del-Larks. Sam played Del-Larks last time I was at Middleton and it's been around since 1973. Just can't get my head around how that is different to same old 500 someone else mentioned. I would be interested in seeing a playlist from James Trouble so I have an idea of what this new sound is that will attract a younger crowd. ROD

Bummer about money lads but why don't you [Dave and Joey] PM this Diego and just ask him to send your 45s to Roccia. He seems an OK kinda guy. At least you'd then know you'd not lost both 45s and money, and give you both some peace of mind. I know Joey you want the money but gotta make the best of a bad job. If Roccia doesn't receive them then you know you've got a problem. No funds or whatever excuse, he's gotta have enough monery to send the 45s internally within Italy. Im sure Roccia would be happy to send the 45s back if you cover his postage. ROD

"I never have had it - I remember us borrowing it from Mike R. - So didn't you and Alex end up with it again when you got all those 45's from him?" Here we are Dave T, Dave W's reply. I think this is a warning to all of us on the dangers of mixing Philosan and Grecian 2000 which can lead to memory loss and delusion. ROD

Sorry, posted twice.

I don't think you could describe UK soul acts as being innovative apart from IMO Soul II Soul gang and that whole "Street Soul" thing. One thing quite recently has picqued my interest and I may be on my own here. I've had Jimmy Thomas "Beautiful Night" for years but I think it was Carl Willingham who flipped it and so I took a listen. Is it me or is it very like Marvin Gaye "What's goin' on" kinda layered sound. Im sure Jimmy's 45 was done here around 68/69 and Marvin's album didn't come out till 1971. Could we claim that as a milestone in soul even before Marvin's classic album. Maybe the more modern guys could comment as I may be a 6T's fan with cloth ears. ROD

We weren't dj-ing long though as you were the only one who'd book us!!. We did Yate once as well. Dave may have got a copy later and Im waiting for his reply to my email. He's probably forgot though. No offence but it's a bit disheartening when your discoveries are always attributed to someone else just because they had a bigger profile. ROD

Well, have I stumbled on an episode of "Fantasy Island"!!!! The Combinations on Kimtone I had on tape back in 70's from a mate in N.C. I could never find a copy for myself so when Dave and I started dj-ing my mate lent it to us.When we sold up it went back to N.C. My mate in N.C. then sold up around late 90's and I got it for myself and eventually it went to Tim Brown as he made me an offer that I couldn't refuse. I asked Dave if we covered it and he can't remember and neither can I. Dave may have picked a copy up somewhere later and I've asked him about that. I did get the Combinations off Richard but that was the Chessmen c/u on Kellmac and I don't think he had the Kimtone 45. That was around 81/82 and before we dj-ed. Carl Fortnum now has that copy. ROD

IMO the best track by Vandellas that's not really been given much exposure is "I'll follow you" off the "Watchout" LP. Motown but kinda more Northern orientated like Isleys "Tell me..." , or Monitors "Save a little..." Well worth getting hold of and cheap. ROD